<p>Just admit it... UR is a much better school than you think it is. Just because it might not have a top 5 rating doesn't mean it is bad. One of the reasons it is ranked so low is because of its yield. Rochester places it graduates into the top graduate schools. I do not see Williams on any of these charts.</p>
<p>If U of R doesn't send the majority of its med (and law and business) applicants to the WSJ-defined "top" med (and law and business) schools, then it won't be on the list. </p>
<p>Eastman is certainly one of the best music schools in the country, but I would be hesitant to call it the "best." For conservatories and music schools it is far more important to go to a school that is strong in your field, or has a studio that you like than to go to one that is best all around.</p>
<p>Read a few posts back...</p>
<p>U or R is a good school, but its not in the same league as Williams. Bottom Line.</p>
<p>Something to reference to:</p>
<p>Harvard
Students Going to Law School Upon Graduation: 15%
Students Going to Medical School Upon Graduation: 20%
Students Going to Business School Upon Graduation: 13%
Students Going to Graduate School Upon Graduation: 25% </p>
<p>Interesting indeed, even Harvard doesn't have that many people going on to graduate school. Therefore we can make the assertion that U of R is doing better than Harvard? It all must be placed into context. Yes U of R graduates DO DO WELL in the graduate division, but they aren't any more glamorous than any other top 50 university in its context and level. Every school has an amazing student body that goes on to top programs. If they didn't, it wouldn't be elite.</p>
<p>Many students attending graduate school do not enroll right after college. Another question is, where do the students enroll? Looking at the law shools U of R attends as compared to other top 20 schools.
Compare the success of its graduates in law school placement with IVYs, top LACs and schools such as Northwestern, Emory, Chicago, Georgetown, etc... Once you do this you will see that there are definite differences. As a general statement, perhaps U of R can be better compared with schools in the 25-50 ranking range. This might be a more accurate comparison.
U of R is not even listed in the TOP 50 WSJ Feeder schools article which I know has its flaws but provides some basis for comparison.</p>
<p>This is not to say that U of R grads do not do well in grad placement, however the opportunities to attend the elite grad schools (business, law and medical) is less than top 20 undergrad schools.</p>
<p>I agree, the Wall Street Journal article is flawed. There is a better study of feeder schools called the "Baccalaureate Origins" study that was done by the US Department of Education. In grad school placement, Williams ranked about 20th, U of Rochester about 50th, and Tufts about 200th (roughly). This study isn't perfect but I trust it much more than the amateurish WSJ effort.</p>
<p>Do you have a link?</p>
<p>slipper-
here is the link that I received from mini. There are flaws in this study too but it is a much better effort I think. The US Dept of Ed might also have info on it. This link is for the overall rank but it was also done by major. I think the Reed website might have the top 10 listed according to major...incomplete lists. Also, this is baccalaureate origin for students who enrolled in any PhD program, not just top-tier. The original document was about 300 pages long.</p>
<p>That seems to be a list of sources to doctorate (PhD candidates), so it would be pretty irrelevant to this conversation. Also, there is no mention of institutional quality. Finally, just because one school is a source of many doctorates doesnt mean its better, it just might mean those students choose to get PhDs at a higher rate.</p>
<p>I hate to say it, but I think WSJ is much much better than this. The government would never distinguish a "top" PhD programs from a lesser one (which you mentioned), so its pretty much moot in every way.</p>
<p>But just look at what this person wants to do... Biology with possibility of med school... I know any doctor you would talk to would think more highly of UR than Williams for this.</p>
<p>I will look for the WSJ link which dealt with top 5 business, law and medical schools. It does have flaws but reinforces many beliefs.</p>
<p>Just because school has good medical school doesn't mean its pre-med programs are good. Look at any guide to medical school; the major doesn't matter. Williams is far better school if you wish to attend top medical schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I know any doctor you would talk to would think more highly of UR than Williams for this.
[/quote]
Is this just a hunch, or do you have a factual source for this assumption?
[quote]
I will look for the WSJ link which dealt with top 5 business, law and medical schools. It does have flaws but reinforces many beliefs.
[/quote]
A flawed study that reinforces many beliefs sounds like a bad thing, don't you think?</p>
<p>I believe U of R was in the second 50 list of schools. LACs are included.
Keep in mind this is a limited article and only provides data for the top law, biz and med schools. </p>
<p>I did research into law data and came to my own conclusions of which colleges send the most students to SELECT schools. At these schools, Rochester had a very small presence of students, not much different than the large SUNYs.</p>
<p>The Wall Street Journal study is guilty of faulty methods and false advertising. It is based on only 10 different schools, certainly not "comprehensive" as it claims, most of which are Ivys and in the northeast, and which admit many of their own students into their medical, law, and business schools. It was not a representative sample of elite professional schools by any means. And, it was based on just one year of data, not an average of several recent years. Furthermore, in calculating the percent rate, it did not take into account the numbers of students at the undergraduate school who had no intention of going to med, law, or business school thereby penalizing colleges that had large engineering schools, communications schools, and so on. The Weighted Baccalaureate Origins study used a better method but unfortunately was limited to PhD graduate programs, not professional schools, so it can't directly address the question of med school, but its method is better than WSJ.</p>
<p>"Just because school has good medical school doesn't mean its pre-med programs are good. Look at any guide to medical school; the major doesn't matter. Williams is far better school if you wish to attend top medical schools."</p>
<p>Indeed. Look at Baylor. They have a very highly ranked medical school with a mediocre undergraduate program.</p>
<p>Snuffles, Baylor University in Waco is not affiliated with Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. 2 completely separate schools.</p>
<p>My 2 cents on the OP's question btw, is that it really depends on what you are looking for. I could never go to williams, because it is too small and isolated, but they are generally acknowledged to have better academics. Tufts felt boring on my visit, but who knows - it seems like sort of a middle ground between the other 2, anyway.</p>
<p>Are they completely different? They have absolutely no ties? I had no idea. My friend would be very interested (or rather distraught) to hear this. Can you elaborate more?</p>
<p>ok not to be condescending or anything, but everyone is just running around in circles here. U of R, Williams and Tufts...ALL THREE OF THESE SCHOOLS ARE REALLY REALLY GOOD! hahaha, i mean, they are all top tier when it comes to premed, and at a certain point it is just where the student feels happy to attend. I dont know much about tufts, but i know U of R and Williams just have -different- atmospheres....not necessarily one better than the other, but a student should choose these schools based on the student's perception of their needs and which school can offer an environment to satiate their needs. And again, for some posters here, not to be condescending, but it seems like whatever one says, even backed with facts, you just turn the other way and argue about it, shifting with the wind so to say. "this reference sucks" " that's not true..." "only my information and ideas are right.." blah blah blaahhhh.</p>