Huff and puff all you want big guy. The ad hominem and pop psychology began with you and your crew of boosters: JB, bears, CU123. I guess it’s you guys against the world.
BTW, HYPS-envy/derangement syndrome is what you struggle with. Nonetheless, Ivy-envy is far more respectable than the boosterism on this page.
@EliteCulture331
I assume the list you provide is from Wikipedia which accepts all types of affiliation both long and short term. You did criticize U Chicago’s claim to so many Nobel prizes based on short term affiliation, didn’t you?
The methodology of the THE list of Nobel Prize winners in 2000-17 , the link I provided at # 93, is as follows:
The top 10 list of institutions, covering Nobel prizes awarded from 2000 to 2017, was produced by giving each university a score based on the number of winners affiliated with the institution at the time their award was granted.
The score was then weighted based on the number of prizewinners for the category and the number of institutions affiliated with each award winner. Literature and peace prizewinners were excluded from the analysis.
According to this list Chicago is ranked #3, after Princeton and Stanford. Columbia is #4, Harvard is #8.
@JBStillFlying’s argument that most of the points earned by Chicago come from Economics prizes is also valid for this ranking.
@ccdad99 The same Times Higher Education Nobel ranking from just a year prior (2016) ranks the universities as follows:
The Wikipedia list does a fairly good job of refining the liberal UChicago count (it used to be 100+)
It is highly likely that an updated 2018 version of this list will look slightly different, but that is not the bigger point. Don’t you agree that at least according to this somewhat objective method of comparison of academic prowess, Chicago is among the elite however you or someone else defines it?
Pretty weak stuff at #101. Not surprising given that you have suddenly become the poster boy for UCDS. You’ve achieved fame of a sort. And do I need to spell out (yes, I probably do) that that condition refers exclusively to what is said on this board, not to whatever lies in anyone’s psyche? And here’s a tip: it helps to have a sense of humor. People without it usually aren’t taken seriously. Seriousness usually comes with a light touch.
“Further, UChicago has graduated the 5th most Nobel Prizes after Harvard, Columbia, Berkeley, MIT. UChicago’s claim to having a lot of Nobel winners is based majorly in the faculty affiliates - a great deal of them short term faculty. There’s an ongoing joke in the academic world that a conservative leaning institution like UChicago is extremely liberal in defining what an Nobel Prize winning affiliate of the university actually is. Why am I not surprised that UChicago feels the need to inflate its Nobel numbers after reading the obscene Boosterism on this page?”
@EliteCulture331 UChicago uses the same methodology for counting Nobels as all other schools. They ALL inflate their numbers by counting every genuine affiliation with the university: Bachelors, grad degree, tenured/tenure-track faculty (current or one time). For instance, University of MN counts Shiller (who won the Econ. Nobel with Hanson and Fama) even through he only spent one year there as an ass’t prof. There is significant double counting for everyone but that’s the way the Nobel countin’ works. Most UChicago faculty laugh at that. For instance, Sherwin Rosen once famously said “They take a piss at O’Hare Airport and we put 'em on the T shirt”. Faculty should never be in charge of marketing, and vice versa.
Not very concerned about that particular ignorance because how Nobels are counted is inside-baseball and schools love to make fun of each other over that (though they all do it). Something else you posted is more intriguing. You call UChicago “conservative leaning” - what do you mean by that?
In terms of what? UC Berkeley leads Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Yale and Princeton in the Nobel Prize count. Is Berkeley’s student body on par with that of Stanford or Columbia? UCLA attracts some of the best faculty in the world. Is the average UCLA student on par with the average UChicago student? I wouldn’t say so.
If I were to rank schools according to the overall strength of their student body or rather the ability of the schools to attract the best undergraduate talent it would be as follows:
It’s hard to measure how big a drop there is between #4 and #5, but I imagine it’s fairly large. @ccdad99 Please clarify what you mean by “among the elite”. In the above list UChicago would be among the elite, no?
@JBStillFlying All schools don’t follow the same protocol for counting Nobels. For example, Harvard as an institution claims 40 something Nobel Prizes. When held to the same standard as UChicago it can claim over 150 Nobel Prize winners.
If you define the elites as W, X,Y,Z schools and the total number of Nobel Prizes, or Nobel Prizes 200-16, or 2000-17 awarded to school A lies somewhere among W,X,Y,Z, ie not lower than the lowest ranked among W,X,Y,Z, most reasonable people would agree that School A has been and continues to be on par with W,X,Y,Z.
Nobody can argue with the list you made, of course.
@ccdad99 In that case you are claiming that Columbia, Caltech, Berkeley, Chicago are all on par with HYPS + MIT?
Why not?
Why not? What makes HYPS plus MIT different than the others in your opinion?
@marlowe1 My dear little UChicago booster - I truly hope I am not the poster boy for UCDS because that means I’m the poster boy for something that exists singularly in your head … and that seriously creeps me out. Who knows what you do with me in mind.
You, however, are the poster child for UCIC and UChicago Booster syndrome. You haven’t achieved my level of fame because your views are no different from the common herd on here.
Look if you believe in expanding the acronym based on academic quality to H,Y,P,S,M,C,Chi,Cal that’s certainly worth debating. I’m pretty certain, however, that @marlowe1 @85bears46 and @JBStillFlying are making far bolder claims.
Yet, somehow, the top 10 engineering schools as ranked by US News include institutions in places like West Lafayette, IN and Urbana, IL (each less than half the size of New Haven). Are those places dramatically better than a medium-sized city within easy driving distance of New York and Boston?
“@JBStillFlying All schools don’t follow the same protocol for counting Nobels. For example, Harvard as an institution claims 40 something Nobel Prizes. When held to the same standard as UChicago it can claim over 150 Nobel Prize winners.”
@EliteCulture331 Please read the top of this link for how Harvard counts Nobels and then count it up.
https://www.harvard.edu/about-harvard/harvard-glance/honors/nobel-laureates
A good example is Kenneth Arrow, who did his Nobel work at Stanford but moved to Harvard before he was awarded the prize for the work he did while at Stanford. He is recognized on the Nobel page of both schools, as well as the Nobel pages of his alma maters, Columbia and CUNY. Incidentally, Ken was also an assistant professor at the University of Chicago and so is recognized there too.
Just to amend Post #116, Ken Arrow was recognized by the Nobel committee for the work he did not just at Stanford, but also for the work he did at Columbia as a PhD student AND the work he did at Chicago as an ass’t prof. NOT the work at Harvard. He was hired away by Harvard, so they can claim him as well. Them’s the rules of countin’.
The UChicago count includes post-doc researchers, visiting professors, lecturers, and even members of the Committee on Social Thought. Harvard’s official count is nowhere this liberal. When you apply UChicago’s standard to Harvard’s count, it increases nearly 300%.
The top of the link you provided says nothing about the protocol for counting Harvard Nobels.
Look at the official Wikipedia page for Nobel counting: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=Nobel+prize+winners+by+university+affliation&title=Special:Search&go=Go&searchToken=1zeabvy0w0003szp5j1k4vfs
The editors there have standardized the Nobel count across all universities.
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