@JBStillFlying @Lucine Determined by the candidate. They can pull out by letting the school know that it will still be a hardship even if the school has met demonstrated need. It is an established practice and colleges are not punitive about it.
@What???!! - “established practice” meaning it’s in the contract that it’s ok for the student to pull out at his/her option due to “financial reasons” as determined by the student, or established practice meaning “don’t worry - everyone does it”? If the latter, that’s probably not the best advice to give to a high school student. For a variety of reasons.
Pretty sure in the contract that the applicant agrees to withdraw from other schools immediately upon being accepted. How does the “financial hardship” argument adjust that requirement (which, again, is binding)?
@takeroftests how do you know that?
As a refresher to make sure all ED candidates understand what they have signed on to, here is the wording from the website. Undoubtedly you have agreed to a very specific and detailed version of this summary:
"Our Early Decision I (ED I) application option is best for students who have identified UChicago as their absolute first choice and know they would choose to attend UChicago immediately if offered admission. This admissions plan is binding, meaning that if admitted, you commit to attending UChicago, withdrawing outstanding applications from any other school, and not applying to any additional colleges. If you are enthusiastic about applying to UChicago early but would like to compare admissions offers and financial aid packages from multiple colleges before making a final decision, you should consider applying through the Early Action plan.
Students may only apply Early Decision to one college, but may apply to other schools through non-binding admission plans in addition to an Early Decision application."
As this description makes clear, the admission plan appropriate for comparing financial aid packages is Early Action.
no need to debate this right now, those who have signed the ED contract have already signed it and nobody has a reason to request to pull out of the contract just yet. Idiom: let’s cross that bridge when (if) we get to it
@takeroftests is that a guess? or did you call admissions and ask? Thanks!
@quoderatuhhh there is no additional bridge to cross: the contract is binding. That’s the commitment that the ED candidate makes in turn for getting a bump in admission chances (because they are a firm commitment).
Better to discuss now rather than on Monday evening when admitted EDI’s are on the hook for contacting their other institutions this week, don’t you think?
Edit to add: the bridge was crossed when the ED applicant signed and submitted the agreement.
@drowning2021 @quoderatuhhh I called the admissions office the other day and was told they’ll be released on Monday at 4 PM CT.
@JBStillFlying2 The UChicago ED contract this year specifically stated that IF you stated that you would be seeking financial aid, then you WERE NOT required to withdraw other applications until UChicago produced a financial aid offer that you had time to review. I promise I read that specific language. I don’t think that means you can hold out and wait for all other offers, but you can at least wait to see if UChicago’s actual offer comes close to matching what their Net Price Calculator predicted. If the Net Price Calculator said it was going to cost $20k and the actual number ends up being $40k, you are within your rights to turn UChicago down and continue with other applications you still have in place. That is why my son decided to apply to UChicago ED. It is his first choice, and if their financial aid offer resembles what the Net Price Calculator suggested, then he’ll accept the offer. However, we can’t afford to pay anywhere near full-price, even for UChicago.
the bridge I was referring to was attempting to pull out, not committing. I understand what you’re saying @JBStillFlying2 , but there is a way to get out of the ED commitment. U of C especially is very clear on this. I’m not sure how complicated the process is, but there is a way if you genuinely can’t attend the school with the aid you’re given.
and @takeroftests , thank you! I hope the admissions counselor is correct!
Ugh I’m gonna be at a swim meet when decisions are released
^^ same I’m gonna be at the doctor haha. excited to cry in the waiting room
@Candjsdad I can see where someone thinks that implies an out but unless there is additional wording to specify that the agreement is null and void if you can’t come to an agreement on FA then it’s not truly an option to drop. Also, could be wrong here but aren’t all schools offering ED on the hook to provide FA within a few days of the acceptance? Every one I’ve read about seems to follow that rule. Not sure this is something unique to UChicago(?). Don’t know of a single school that accepts ED but sends out FA in March.
Schools aren’t going to operate on bad faith/bait-and-switch simply because to do so they’d destroy ED as an admissions option. In addition, UChicago reads your CSS (if submitted) and/or the amount you say you can pay on their own FA form. Obviously, families can’t really back down from that amount w/o relying on the grace of the institution not to exercise some form of consequence (exception would obviously be if income took a huge hit due to the death of the primary earner, or job loss, etc. Institutions aren’t going to play hardball in that situation because they lose goodwill points).
However, families can also claim that the amount they can afford is a fraction of “demonstrated need” as revealed in the FAFSA or CSS (Chicago accepts the latter, by the way, even if they don’t require it). Families can claim a lot of things. The final judge of demonstrated need is the institution and families are expected to do their homework (as it sounds like you and @lucene have both done), but not doing so isn’t an option out of the contract. If you happen not to agree you may have an out - practically speaking - but you may not. The institution has the right to impose a consequence for breach of contract - whether they do so is entirely up to them (and I suppose there are arguments that doing so would violate anti-trust law).
All this sounds very complicated but it’s not if everyone can remember one thing: there is a lot of good faith on both sides to hold up their end of a contract, and there are practical measures that simply might be difficult to impose if the other side happens to breach. But . . . it IS a contract and you are legally bound to abide by it. It’s not a pledge, or a declaration of intent, or an agreement to enter into something binding later on. If someone wants to set me straight on what it is that you’ve signed and bound yourself to, be my guest.
There are other institutions that are even more straightforward with their description (see CMU’s, for instance). Your financial aid is not as generous with ED as with other options, and you don’t necessarily have an out if you don’t like your FA package. Not saying that all ED contracts are the same, but guessing they are substantially similar. UChicago may be unique as a “no barriers” school; however, that doesn’t mean they and you will agree that the barrier has been removed. They are pretty specific about what “no barriers” means, and “demonstrated need” has a very specific meaning that doesn’t leave much to interpretation.
UChicago has no idea whether a family truly did their homework before their student applied ED. All they know is what you submit, what you are saying to them in conversations with admissions and financial aid, and what you’ve agreed to. Now, practically speaking, what will they do if your claim your ability to pay is, say, 1/2 of what they arrive at meeting 100% of demonstrated need? Well, guessing they don’t admit you - you will be deferred to RD where you can compare UChicago (if admitted) to other schools.
@JBStillFlying2 UChicago has affirmed that an ED student will be considered the same exact way as an EA student when it comes to aid. On the ED contract, there is a clause that states you are allowed to drop the agreement if the FA is not substantial or practical for your family. However, my regional officer stated that you are required to speak directly with the aid office and attempt to negotiate your offer before you can drop the agreement. For me, my family used the net price calculator to see what our aid would potentially be and the calculator gave a feasible result and after contacting the aid office, we were assured that the ED condition would not affect our aid offer in any way, shape, or form.
@hotentoth - ah, if that clause exists then yes, that is an out or, more accurately, a way back to the table. But yeah, your RO is correct. Like the ability to return an item for the refund vs. exchanging for another item, it all depends on what store policy is.
BTW, I think I was incorrect about the practical aspects of what they do if your stated amount to pay is less than the amount they arrive at by meeting demonstrated need. They can’t defer you because they are supposed to be “need blind”. However, they do have the option of dropping your acceptance if you both reach an impasse. Not very likely, but the possibility exists and it should exist. After all, you were given special consideration as an ED candidate.
@quoderatuhhh I sincerely hope you were well aware of what those “ways” were before you signed the ED agreement! And that they were legitimate “outs” and not just an expectation that you could get out of it. You say the UChicago is clear on this so guessing you are referring to what @hotentoth posted ^^
Also have to keep in mind that if you drop your ED agreement you will not be allowed to attend any of the colleges that accepted you early or that you applied to early because you have to withdraw all of your apps immediately after you get an acceptance AND and aid package.
@hotentoth and, coincidentally(?), UChicago is releasing its decisions kinda late to be giving someone the option of dropping the ED agreement and then re-applying elsewhere (with Jan. 1 deadlines looming). BTW, I thought that was also standard ED wording, but usually the timing for releasing decisions is a bit earlier.
I hope people understand who holds the cards with an ED agreement. You are trading a bump in admission chances for financial flexibility and the option to choose later on. UChicago is no exception, despite their nice wording.
@JBStillFlying2 I am a little confused about the decision date too. It makes sense for the EA’s to come out late since almost all UChicago applicants are very well qualified and have the ability to get into a top program ED so it makes sense for them to wait out other college ED programs to see who doesn’t drop which allows them to keep up high yield. However, i think it would’ve been more practical for all the ED applicants to hear earlier to allow them to apply elsewhere.
@Lucine, yes of course I understand that a student that is not wealthy or low income but more in the middle can apply ED and see if it’s affordable but that is not the best strategy. You really should use ED in a way that benefits you. Not making sure that you can afford the school through your monies or through generous need based financial aid by the school is just throwing away the ED advantage. Why apply ED to a school that you will just have to turn down? That’s a stupid strategy.
And it’s exactly what happened to my D’s friend. She got an ED acceptance from her top choice but not enough fin aid. The school thought the family could afford a specific amount, the family insisted that they could not. They appealed. The school hemmed and hawed and then gave them a little bit of merit. Still not enough. The family talked and the kid pleaded. Time ticked away and the whole thing was a mess. The upshot is that the kid ended up having to apply last minute to a bunch of schools she had no interest in at all. Ended up at a large conservative OSS in a miserable state of mind. Not a good way to start your colllegiate career. Very resilient kid so she will suck it up and do fine. Another kid it may have been a different story. A family member of my husband’s ended up not finishing her degree because she could not stomach the conservative enviornment in this same school.
Please remember that ED is actually more of an advantage to the school not to you the student. After all it was invented by the schools to raise their matriculation rates. Not out of their generous hearts to help you out.
Also, why would a school give merit to a kid that applied ED? That’s something that my D’s friend did not factor in. By the time they offered her some merit the resources were dry.
I know it sounds kind of rude but I think families and kids need to go about this very clear minded and level headed.
Just to be transparent, my S used ED at Carnegie Mellon, got in and graduated this year. My D used EA at UChicago got in with substantial merit and is there now. Her friend who is now at an Ivy got into UChicago in the RD round with merit also but not substantial merit. UChicago was not her first choice. My D’s friend applied early to a highly selective school/Ivy and did not get in. So UChicago was not a top choice for her. She then applied to the usual suspects RD. I’m thinking that UChicago suspected that they were not her first choice. So they offered some goodies but not enough to make it extremely palatable to attend.
Good luck to everyone. My D loves UChicago- the friends in her house more than anything else. I’m hoping she has a better experience with some of her classes next quarter.
(kinda saying this for myself too but) no matter what decision, you’ll end up creating a lot of good memories at whatever college you go to, and it’ll work out for the best 