Hello, I’m a philosophy major hoping to earn my law degree after finishing my undergrad. I know that being a lawyer is competitive and jobs are not guaranteed, but I’m really motivated to get into a good law school and being an attorney . My question is would going to a UC help me in any way when applying to law schools? Should I go to CSULb and save money or would the benefits of going to UC out weigh the savings. The thing that I am most my concerned about most is my GPA I currently have a 3.5 and by the end of spring it should be 3.6 and i feel like I should go to csulb because they are on semesters and it will be easier to maintain a high gpa as opposed to the faster quarter system.
UCLA unless the savings would be that drastic.
You would absolutely have to work harder to get into the 3.8+ bracket; however, the philosophy program at UCLA would best prepare you for law school. You have to remember that the competition doesn’t even once you get into law school. Rank will become extremely important. Yes, it would be easier to take an easier route, but achieving a high GPA in a rigorous program will better prepare you. Not to mention, likely lead to a higher LSAT score.
The stats do show that high ranking law schools tend to prefer high ranking undergrad universities. It doesn’t mean that there are a number of exceptions. It only means that more students from those schools tend to fill the accepted pile for whatever reason.
Current UCLA philosophy student here.
This place will hone your analytical skills to levels you didn’t think were possible lol. You should come here if/when possible.
@TheVisionary “The stats do show…” Do you have a source? It is my understanding that T14 law schools solely care about the applicant’s GPA and LSAT score - even ECs hardly matter. The exceptions are Yale and Stanford. Otherwise, law school is primarily a numbers game.
http://www.lsac.org/jd/applying-to-law-school/whom-to-admit
http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/undergraduate-colleges/
http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/research-(lsac-resources)/tr-13-03.pdf
https://lawschooli.com/what-does-it-take-to-get-into-law-school/
I know the last link doesn’t seem like an accurate source - I include it because it’s concise, and explains the nature of law school admissions fairly well.
Also, it’s likely that the graduates from top institutions have a tendency of scoring higher on the LSAT than graduates from relatively uncompetitive state schools. The fact that many schools from top universities are represented more often in entering JD class profiles does not necessarily mean that there is a preference for students from elite universities.
One’s undergrad institution has no bearing on law school admissions. Law schools care about two things: LSAT and GPA (except, as @goldencub noted above, Yale and Stanford. They like people who won Nobel prizes, ended world hunger, etc).
As sad as it may be, schools are heavily ranking focused. What matters most in the rankings? LSAT and GPA average of a particular school’s incoming class.
However, law schools most likely do accept more students from high-ranking institutions. This is not because of an institution’s prestige, though. High-ranking universities tend to draw the best students, who then perform better than most of their peers at lower-ranked undergrad institutions. It’s not the school, but the type of student a school attracts.
Thanks for the response guys. I think I’m leaning more going towards a UC but I have to wait to see which ones I get into. How would a Law school view my GPA since it resets once I transfer? Will more weight be placed on my Upper Divison courses or ?
@jessus They will factor in both your lower division and upper division courses equally. They only care about GPA. Honestly. You could major in underwater basket weaving and get a 4.0 and be more competitive than someone with a 3.8 in engineering. Sad but true.
Like I said, it’s all about the rankings. The rankings (and therefore admissions) don’t care how much easier that 4.0 would be than a 3.8 in engineering. All they care about is the number.
That’s a significant advantage community college transfers have over other students. Our grades from community college count just as much as grades from a university. What’s more, since we can transfer 70 units, you could potentially only need 50 more units from a university to graduate. As you can see, you can stack the odds in your favor from the get-go.
@Cheolf I see, I could kind of tell form the UCLA law student profile page that they only care about GPA and LSAT scores. But what number would they look at for transfer students? You said they are weighted equally, so does that mean that if i get a 3.6 in CC and a 3.8 in UC they will just average the two? Also, if all they care about is numbers would trying to get an internship be a waste of time and energy that i can potentially be using to earn good grades?
Internships are good for your own sake. ECs can help with borderline applicants, but it is primarily a numbers game -so the higher your GPA, the better.
It’s done by the unit. So a CC 3.6 with 60 units and a UC 3.8 with 60 units would be a LSAC 3.7. It’s not so easy with different unit totals - but it’s fairly straightforward to calculate that (there are things online that do it for you).
Look under Grade-Point Average:
http://www.lsac.org/aboutlsac/policies/transcript-summarization
@goldencub @Cheolf are both correct. The wording in that sentence was flawed. ‘Prefer’ was not an accurate term. I meant that the acceptance rate tends to lean in their favor. Not that admissions officers actually prefer high ranking universities.
An additional reason why attending a high ranking university can be beneficial is that there is often a higher appreciation for ambition, which can even factor into grading culture. When you attend a “Undergrad to Workforce” university such as a CSU, you will come across a large portion of professors who will have the mindset that their students should be happy with anything above a C. “You might not know why you were deducted 13 points on that paper, but the fact that you got a B and the rest of the class receives Cs or lower means that you have no place to confront the professor about it.”
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’ve have known dozens of amazing and understanding professors at universities that were far from higher ranking. It is simply that there is not this culture on CSU campuses in which preparing for elite graduate schools is the norm. Most people will not expect that you are so adamant about your GPA because you already have graduate school in the back of your mind.
This is not a critique of the culture on those types of campuses because there is absolutely no reason why students with A-'s or B’s should be afraid of their GPA being affected. Our modern admissions culture is a true tragedy. It is, however, not going to change in the next few years. I find that you encounter the most understanding individuals, whether they be professors, counselors, or otherwise, in those high ranking universities where heading off to an ivy league graduate school is something that is at least somewhat more common.
@TheVisionary That’s fair. I do think the surrounding environment of a school (particularly with one’s peers) has a huge impact on their will to succeed. If one places themselves among students of a high caliber, they will likely put in more effort to compensate. Student culture is a huge factor.
That being said, if you have a 3.6 at CC, it is unlikely that you will be able to get a 3.8 at UCLA, @jessus - and because law school is completely a numbers game, it might be a good idea to go to one of the UC’s that are less rigorous (UCI), or even a CSU - but I’ve heard good things about UCI’s philosophy department, whereas I haven’t heard particularly good things about the philosophy departments at most CSU’s, including the high ranking ones.
It is good to go to a more rigorous university if one is likely to be able to do well - but again, GPA is huge for law school, and most transfer students’ GPAs drop after going from community college to a UC (particularly the harder ones).
@goldencub vaild point. But I “blame” my gpa on the fact that I had a semester at SMC that my class ended at 3pm. I don’t know if you ever been to LA but traffic was a nightmare, I was in traffic for 2 hours once. Really drained my energy and motivation to do work at home. I plan on living near school next semester for that reason. In my philosophy and GE classes I’ve gotten mostly As (one C in Math the semester i talked about). I’m feel like I would work really hard at a UC so that hopefully my GPA is higher or the same. But yeah I get you I have some High school friends that go to Cal and UCLA and they tell me that their GPA is < 3.0 some almost have 2.0.
A study was made that showed that CSU graduates are dispropropionately less likely to get into law schools vs. UCs. This is even more true for Top14 (and you really want to get into a top20 at worst, or not go to law school).
You can test this by asking each philosophy program
1° How many students graduated with a philosophy degree in the past 5 years?
2° How many students who graduated in the past 5 years got into a Top 14 law school?
(If they can’t answer, that alone is a bad sign - depts tend to be very proud of their successand try to track it to an inch of their lives, since their lives as depts literally depend on metrics that include this kind of success.)
In my opinion, you should choose UCLA and add a couple classes in statistics (always useful), because if you dont get into a T14 upon first try, a UCLA degree and a couple statistics classes will take you further.
@MYOS1634 yeah if I don’t get into a top 20 I won’t go to law school . Good advice I’m definitely leaning towards a UC now . Thanks