UF drops behind U Miami in the 2011 USNews rankings.

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Florida
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<p>yep, the longer the pages are in any thread, the more ■■■■■■■■ it gets. ppl dont realize thet arguing in the internet is pointless.</p>

<p>sooner or later this will happen:
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See the [current</a> UF Common Data Set](<a href=“http://www.ir.ufl.edu/OIRAPPS/CDS/CDS_UF.asp?pagesource=admission]current”>http://www.ir.ufl.edu/OIRAPPS/CDS/CDS_UF.asp?pagesource=admission), Item C12:

This is an [obfuscation[/url</a>], as the CDS specifically asks for an average, not the “middle 50%”. What is significant about this type of entry is that the CDS is designed to minimize or eliminate exaggerations, to serve as a common set of admissions data so one school’s performance may be compared to another by consumers.</p>

<p>If we look at [url=<a href=“http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Common_Data_Set/2009-10/C.html]Florida”>http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Common_Data_Set/2009-10/C.html]Florida</a> State’s Common Data Set](<a href=“http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obfuscation]obfuscation[/url”>Obfuscation Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster), Item C12, for the same period we see no obfuscation.

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<p>Additionally, we should note that UF shows a GPA range not on a 4.0 scale, as the CDS requires (see C11 - above C12), but on some other scale, which is another obfuscation.</p>

<p>So, which university presents the more credible data?</p>

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<p>parent2noles - You didn’t go far enough. It also specifically asks that it be reported on a 4.0 scale. Not sure how 4.3 fits that criteria. Both schools fail on that count; there is no way the average UW GPA at FSU is 3.71. That is nearly the same GPA as some USNWR top 15 schools, who are clearly reporting on a 4.0 scale</p>

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<p>Feel free to show me the data where FSU’s enrolled GPA is not 3.71/4.0, as reported on the Common Data Set.</p>

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<p>parent2noles - just common sense, but sure, here you go. [About</a> FSU’s Students](<a href=“http://www.fsu.edu/students/]About”>Students | Florida State University)</p>

<p>Note especially the paragraph which says: “The middle 50 percent of our 2009 accepted freshman class is: 3.5-4.1 GPA; 25-29 ACT composite; 1700-1930 SAT total.”</p>

<p>Not only does that show they are not using a 4.0 scale, it is also rather obfuscating and pointless since it shows accepted students, not the profile of the actual, attending freshmen. Virtually 100% of the time the actual class has lower stats than the accepted students, since higher performing students use FSU as a safety and end up at Harvard, Duke, Tulane, wherever. I can prove this as well if you want to argue with it. Now I am sure on the CDS they use the stats of registered students, but put the two things together and it is obvious they are reporting the weighted GPA of the attending students, not UW.</p>

<p>Also, Vanderbilt, one of the most selective schools in the country, shows an average GPA of 3.71 for their entering class. I happen to know Vandy follows the rules and reports on an UW basis. Do you really want to claim that FSU freshmen have the same GPA as Vandy freshmen?</p>

<p>You are free to have any delusions you want about it. These are pretty solid, incontrovertible facts, though.</p>

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<p>FSU’s CDS reported GPA is almost certainly weighted (like UF’s)…as it also inconsistent with the 34% of the reported students in the top-10% of the HS class.</p>

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<p>You are right rogracer, except you can leave out the word “almost”.</p>

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<p>don’t know why everyone on the UF forum digs on FSU but I would’ve chosen FSU over UF in a heartbeat. I’m going to neither but FSU isn’t filled with over-acting ******s like people in this thread.</p>

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<p>Not sure who you mean, Sharath, but I am not “digging” on FSU in the least. I am pointing out a factual situation with regard to one point that was misstated by another poster.</p>

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<p>Let’s see if we can avoid these types of ad hominem statements in this discussion:

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<p>All I asked for was your reference and you provided the marketing data from the FSU pages as interpreted by “common sense”. Since Vandy’s data is beyond reproach, you reason, FSU’s data, with regard to C12, must be obfuscated. Correct?</p>

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<p>Look up the definition of as hominem. That was not an ad hominem statement. It was my assessment of your need to believe that FSU was reporting an UW GPA, based on what I perceived as the tone of your statement given the context of the discussion preceding it.

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<p>This is further exemplified by your sarcastic tone contained herein

I did not provide marketing data, I provided data FSU provided regarding their admitted students, which proves that the GPA of the students actually attending cannot possibly be 3.71 UW. That isn’t interpretation by common sense, that is mathematics. The common sense was that I knew the number was weighted without having to look anything else up. That reference also clearly shows they are using a scale other than 4.0 as the top grade, since it has the 75th percentile as 4.1. Presumably it is a 5.0 scale. So taking the middle of that range as the mean, which will be very close to accurate because of the large number of data points, that gives a 3.8 on a 5.0 scale. You can do the math from there.</p>

<p>FSU is no Vanderbilt. In fact, no state school is (at least by USNWR rankings), and FSU is hardly at the top of the state school pile. Want more? OK. University of Michigan, widely regarded as one of the top 5 public universities, reports 3.75 on their CDS. There is no way on this earth that FSU is that close to Michigan in UW GPA. Unlike FSU, Michigan goes out of their way to demonstrate they are using the 4.0 scale and to show they are talking about the actual freshman class [Office</a> of Undergraduate Admissions: About Michigan](<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/about/]Office”>Explore & Visit | University of Michigan Office of Undergraduate Admissions)</p>

<p>Vandy is not beyond reproach in general, I just know that they give the unweighted number. And I did not say the number in C12 is obfuscated, I said it is incorrectly reported. In that regard, FSU is in good company. UCLA, Virginia, UNC-Chapel Hill, and others also report weighted GPA’s. Heck, UNC reports a 4.47! Even if you don’t think I know what I am talking about regarding Vandy (which would be a mistake, but…) it would be beyond all belief that a school, when compared to UNC-CH (which is a great school), has higher SAT scores, a higher ranking, and in general is as well known as Vandy would have a 3.71 average GPA compared to a 4.47, unless one lives in a fantasy world.</p>

<p>So in short, no, not correct.</p>

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<p>Yawn… As predicted, Tom is really having a bad day. I wonder if Machen ever wrote him back. (Who was ranting, moi!!! - LMAO)</p>

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<p>Can everyone get a life? It is obvious that any university that depends on public funding is going to suffer when the government is bankrupt. We might was well get used to that idea for the next 3 years or until Ronald Reagan #2 rides into town and fixes this mess.</p>

<p>I read the rankings. But one thing is crystal clear. UF is still drawing the cream of the crop today and will continue to so tomorrow.</p>

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<p>Back to the actual (sub)issue - FSU indeed is using a weighted GPA on the CDS, which is, according to the CDS, drawn from from enrolled students and not merely “accepted” students.<br>

See: <a href=“http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Common_Data_Set/2009-10/C.html[/url]”>http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Common_Data_Set/2009-10/C.html&lt;/a&gt; and <a href=“http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Performance_Indicators/Student/S03.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ir.fsu.edu/Performance_Indicators/Student/S03.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The GPA shown is likely the discussed recalculated GPA and consists of:

See: [FSU</a> Admissions | Freshman | Admissions | GPA](<a href=“FSU Admissions | Error 404 page not found”>FSU Admissions | Error 404 page not found)</p>

<p>But I cannot be sure unless FSU explains the CDS GPA. One thing I can be sure of is that Florida has a very literal public records law and that FSU and UF must be appropriately transparent about such data, unlike private universities. We can pick apart FSU and UF’s data as they are state schools and cannot fudge too much. Your guess is as good as mine about the data from schools not so encumbered.</p>

<p>Having said that, I urge substantial caution in placing too much faith in even the Common Data Set. It appears to me that each element must be interpreted in the light of other university data and unfortunately cannot be taken too literally. I’d guess most freshmen don’t drill into the Institutional Reference pages and ferret out such nuance.</p>

<p>Now, in fairness to UF, FSU’s not clarifying the GPA as a weighted GPA is an obfuscation. </p>

<p>Fallenchemist, Too bad text cannot communicate emotions…you are reading way too much emotion into my posts. I shan’t rise to discuss your various statements and inferences except to say (again):

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<p>Oh yes - almost forgot. I really don’t think much weight should be put into raw, unweighted, GPAs. Such a figure can cover a multitude of weak classes and general lack of rigor. I like FSU’s approach.</p>

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<p>this is probably the most ridiculous thread i have ever seen in these forums.</p>

<p>seriously ppl, stop</p>

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You really did yourself proud with that intelligent comment. I have no idea where you think I am"whining" or what I would be whining about. I am merely pointing out that they don’t report their GPA on a 4,0 scale, as they are supposed to, and someone took issue with it, so I proved it. Now they even agree that I was right.</p>

<p>I am very sorry you got rejected by Tulane. Bitter, are we? BTW, check out average SAT scores for the 3 schools. Tulane beats UF by about 150 points and FSU by over 200.</p>

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That is exactly what I said. It wouldn’t be “merely” accepted students though. Accepted students have higher stats than the eventually enrolled students.</p>

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I would say that is a sure thing. It is fine that they use that for internal purposes, I agree rigor of schedule matters. All competitive schools look at that, one way or another. But why can’t they follow the simple instructions on C11 and report the GPA on a true, 4.0 scale? Because it looks higher this way? I don’t know.</p>

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<p>LOL, right. Because you don’t sound bitter at all. Hmmm, low GPA’s? Tulane: 65% in top 10% of high school class. FSU? 34%. You are simply making a fool of yourself. Bye.</p>

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<p>You sure make FSU look good. How can the GPA’s be low if 2/3 of the students were in the top 10% of their class? Are you really that math challenged?</p>

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<p>Actually, FSU is indeed very good and significantly underrated by analyses such as US News. The numbers are credible and they let it all hang out. As an FSU graduate I guarantee that FSU can be extremely tough academically and plays no favorites. Conversely, I suggest a private school can hide many weaknesses and essentially is not held to the same standard as a state school - at least in Florida.</p>

<p>For example, U Miami has only recently issued Common Data Sets for review. The lack of year-to-year data is underwhelming. I don’t know about schools like Vandy, but if state schools cloud reporting on some issues I’d watch my wallet for sure at a private, even one that rates well.</p>