<p>He was not under control in their opinion or mine from the video. He was resisting and squirming.</p>
<p>Here's a much better video</p>
<p>I guess it just goes to show that different people can watch the same event and come away with totally opposing stories. If you take away the sound (so you don't hear him), you don't get as "tainted" a perception. When he's on the ground, before they have him flip over, you can see his open palm up in a protest/defensive posture. What could be construed as squirming, I saw as the police having him turn over- originally he was on his back and they wanted him on his stomach. It looks like he's trying to get up, but he was being turned over. Then you see movement of them putting the cuffs on him- his arms were behind his back. He seems relatively physically quiet while they are cuffing him, until they start tasering him then he starts writhing again.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to do a test of people watching for the first time- with and without sound. I think a lot of the perceptions have to do with what he is saying, not necessarily his physical demeanor.</p>
<p>Anytime I see a 21 year old college student who is unable to read obvious social cues, I assume he/she is mentally ill.</p>
<p>^ Absolutely. Excellent post. Cops are supposed to be trained to deal with the mentally ill. They managed to kill an "uncooperative" psychotic person here recently.</p>
<p>These reactions disturb me.</p>
<p>This student was acting like an idiot. Granted. He should have been removed from the room. Whether he should have been arrested to begin with is not something I could answer. But under no circumstances should he have been tasered.</p>
<p>He was on his back with a large cop sitting on top of him, surrounded by three other cops. In what way was he not subdued? Yes, he kept yelling. So what? I would have, too. It's not against the law to yell when being arrested. When they turned him onto his back to cuff him, he willingly allowed them to turn him over. He started to freak out again when they began to cuff him, but again, as the largest cop was sitting on him, the kid wasn't any sort of threat.</p>
<p>It's incredibly clear from the video on AOL that the only reason they tasered him was basically to teach him a lesson. The female cop kept saying, "Stop resisting or you will be tasered." However, yelling isn't resisting, and that is not the approved use of a taser. A taser is a second-to-last-resort, before a gun, when a person cannot be controlled and poses a danger to himself or others. THAT is the approved use in any police department.</p>
<p>Being a jerk does not mean you were asking for it. If that was the case, there are a lot of people walking around who are asking for it. This is a clear abuse of power. Expect some disciplinary action to come out of this.</p>
<p>Actually he was on his stomach with a large policeman on his back, with his arms behind his back, and he was in the process of being handcuffed; according to reports he was actually already cuffed.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Being a jerk does not mean you were asking for it. If that was the case, there are a lot of people walking around who are asking for it. This is a clear abuse of power. Expect some disciplinary action to come out of this.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This thread shows a side of the CC crowd that astound me. Police State R Us.</p>
<p>I for one don't want my country to descend to wholsesale administering of excruciating pain because someone is being a jerk.</p>
<p>Some people here I'd expect it from, but others, well, I'm just disappointed. Astounding, just astounding.</p>
<p>I am more astounded by the reactions here than the actual incident. I am actually surprised by all sorts of intellectuals, and pseudo intellectuals of course. Being a jerk is equal to asking for a tasing? This is even worse than in China.</p>
<p>You must have little idea what China is like then.
Being a jerk and resisting arrest is a crime. Being a jerk is an option. You just better know your audience.</p>
<p>I went to my fair share of demonstrations and acted up. You took your chances and if the cops caught you after they ordered you to leave you had a good shot at feeling the business end of a club. Tear gas was heavily used and is quite painful for much longer than the few seconds of a taser. After the "ordeal" of being tased he was up and no worse for wear.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You took your chances and if the cops caught you after they ordered you to leave you had a good shot at feeling the business end of a club.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And you think that's okay. My D was walking down a street carrying a sign. She felt the business end of a club. That is NOT okay.</p>
<p>No, we're not like China. But we can be, if that's what you all want.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It would be interesting to do a test of people watching for the first time
[/quote]
I just now watched it for the first time (the barrons link). It's clear to me that this student was out to rebel a bit by his actions at the podium, he ignored the directives to leave the podium, he resisted the police who were escorting him (and the student was bigger and in much better shape than the police), additional police entered the fray including a fairly large policeman, the student was still resisting and refused to obey the uniformed officers, the police got him on the ground where the student was still struggling, the police tased him and a few seconds later the student was standing up - cuffed and under control for the first time. I couldn't see if they tased him before or after cuffing him. I hope it wasn't after.</p>
<p>I know the tasing temporarily hurt the student for some number of seconds just as some of the cops will probably be sore after trying to subdue him but it did manage to get him under control without any major physical damage to anyone.</p>
<p>Should they have continued to try to subdue him physically enough to get the cuffs on? I don't know since I'm not a trained cop but it appears the student was managing to prevent 4 or 5 cops from physically subduing him enough to be cuffed - at least for quite a while and in the process the cops, the student, and even some of the bystanders were at risk of physical injury (wrenched arms, slammed kneecaps, people falling on each other). Should they have pepper sprayed him? Probably not because of the proximity of the crowd. Should they have tased him? I don't know since I'm not a trained cop. I do know that cops need to make quick judgment calls regarding use of force under conditions that the majority of us have never been in. I think the best thing to do would be to allow this to be reviewed by an unbiased group that has access to not just the videos but can also debrief the participants and witnesses.</p>
<p>At least in the end no one was seriously injured.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This thread shows a side of the CC crowd that astound me. Police State R Us.</p>
<p>I for one don't want my country to descend to wholsesale administering of excruciating pain because someone is being a jerk.</p>
<p>Some people here I'd expect it from, but others, well, I'm just disappointed. Astounding, just astounding.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You know, I'd be one of the first people to speak out against the impending police state/civil rights issues, but you know what, part of liberty is being able to dictate what happens on your property. Public universities have rules about who is allowed on their property and have access to their facilities. There are also rules against creating a disturbance this this in their facilities. The police are well within their rights to enforce those rules, as they were in the UCLA taser incident. This is far from going door to door collecting guns/contraband or hauling people off to jail for speaking their opinion.</p>
<p>CNN posted the actual police report (presumably obtained under FOIA) - it certainly sounds from all the accounts on the report that he was simply another stupid kid looking for his 15 minutes of fame, apparently thinking that he was being "politically active" and "getting his message out" or some such nonsense. Now where have we seen this before? :rolleyes:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually he was on his stomach with a large policeman on his back, with his arms behind his back, and he was in the process of being handcuffed; according to reports he was actually already cuffed.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>He wasn't completely cuffed. Apparently he had the cuff on one wrist and was resisting getting the cuffs around the other when they tased him.</p>
<p>As an attorney observed on his blog Beldar:</a>
[quote]
The version of the video marked "CNN" clearly shows that he resumed struggling as soon as they had the cuff on his right wrist, and didn't get the cuff on his left wrist until after the Tasering...) He had previously been on his stomach (when taken to the ground by the large black officer who'd propelled him up the aisle away from the microphone area), but he'd squirmed around onto his side and his back. At least some of the time, he can be seen flailing wildly with at least one, and perhaps both arms; other times, he's clearly trying to wrestle his arms out of the grips of the police officers. The officers had not only ordered him to stop resisting and to roll back onto his stomach, they had clearly warned him that if he did not, they would Tase him. He didn't, so they did...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And it is clear he was resisting being cuffed when tased in this version, about 3 minutes in:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA%5B/url%5D">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA</a></p>
<p>BTW, apparently Tasers have two modes of operation, the main one being where they act like guns, shooting contacts at the end of wires and delivering a large shock. That's the mode most of us have seen on TV. In the second mode the taser is pressed against someone an delivers lessor shock. It's used to get a person to comply with instructions and is considered more humane than the only method - whacking them with a nightstick. That's what happened to Meyer.</p>
<p>The attorney continues:
[quote]
The important point to take away is that just before he was Tased, Meyer was continuing to disobey the officers and continuing to struggle against them with what appears to have been all of his strength. There was no real danger that he might escape. But there was a danger that he would hurt himself. There was a danger that he would hurt one of the officers. And there was a danger that in trying to physically restrain him, one or more of the officers would hurt him. With him struggling so violently, it's not completely improbable that someone could have been dealt a life-threatening injury for example, a crushed wind-pipe. Far more likely is that someone Meyer or the officers would have suffered a serious, potentially lifetime-disabling injury. If they were lucky, it would have been only a broken rib or broken arm or dislocated shoulder. But it might have been a torn ligament or ripped cartilage somewhere that would have meant no more running for a 21-year-old college brat or a twenty-something police officer. Deliberately or not, Meyer was still out of control, even though he had no chance of escape, no right to resist, and no more time to continue putting himself and others at risk of serious injury.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
CNN posted the actual police report (presumably obtained under FOIA)
[/quote]
</p>
<h2>I thought FOIA only applies to the federal government, which the University of Florida Police Dept. is not.</h2>
<p>Strick11, thanks for your post.</p>
<p>Florida has the broadest "sunshine" laws in the country, giving nearly anyone access to information in government. It's all they can do to keep autopsy photos private.</p>
<p>Meyer's problem is that he was being arrested for disorderly conduct, and then resisted that arrest.</p>
<p>There is room for fair argument that his conduct was not sufficiently disorderly to merit police action. The UF cops might have overreacted, or maybe extra caution was warranted. That would be an interesting free speech discussion.</p>
<p>But once the UF cops decided to arrest him, he had no right to resist the arrest, which in itself is a separate crime. A big, strong person flailing around in a prone position is very dangerous to the arresting officers, and the use of the Taser will be found to be appropriate and by the book when all the dust settles. This is not a case of a student being Tased only for speaking out.</p>
<p>Strik11-
Off topic a bit, but I do believe they ultimately managed to keep the Dale Earnhart autopsy photos out of the press, correct?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Off topic a bit, but I do believe they ultimately managed to keep the Dale Earnhart autopsy photos out of the press, correct?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I believe so. Having done business with the State of Florida, I can honestly that much transparency can be both a good and a bad thing. The Earnhart controversy was one of the bad things. </p>
<p>Public access to the arrest report in a case a controversial as this student's is probably a good thing.</p>
<p>Also, after the officers involved are discliplined, expect at least one of them to sue Meyer for intentional distress.</p>