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<p>Yeah. Even the comprehensive ranking list on FSU’s website is misleading because they want you to believe that the rankings are national and don’t tell you that its just the rankings amongst public schools.</p>
<p>FSU (and UF) should be ranked with public universities.</p>
<p>FSU’s website doesn’t specify that the rankings are for public schools – conveniently leaves that out of course.</p>
<p>I mean it’s convenient for them, because they compare their ranking for only public schools with UF’s ranking for all schools in the nation, and then they only look a little worse.</p>
<p>But don’t worry, quantitative measures like the amount of research money, alumni support (indicative of alumni earnings), and various career numbers are all just UF marketing.</p>
<p>Most of UF’s research money comes from the med school, long the only state med school in Florida. FSU actually has a higher rate of alumni support than UF. Career numbers for UF are unreliable, as from 1905 to 1947 UF as the state (white) men’s college while FSU became the state (white) women’s college. UF is currently realizing that advantage in contributions from that 42 year period - it won’t last. FSU Law students currently have a slight advantage in LSAT scores… </p>
<p>GFG - for a long time (and still may) UF selectively presented only ratings showing how it compared to AAU schools, which eliminated a LOT of competition.</p>
<p>See, this is marketing. It is questionable to bring this out and claim superiority. ;)</p>
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<p>Show me where they did that and didn’t mention that it was in comparison to other AAU schools? I bet you can’t find it because you’re just making stuff up! 
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<p>There are no problems if they identify the basis of the ranking (ie “This ranking is based on AAU schools”…) FSU on the other hand is advertising rankings trying to make it come across as if its national rankings when it fact its only among public schools. That’s the difference. There wouldn’t be a problem if the FSU website said “among publics”. But FSU needs all the help it could get. ;)</p>
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Oh they mentioned it was in comparison to other AAU schools - big deal. The average high school applicant doesn’t know AAU academics from AAU sports, however. ;)</p>
<p>In sum, it was a favorable presentation they used as it made UF look more accomplished because it minimized close other competition like Florida State. If I can find a good web example or two I will post it for you. Once again, it was marketing.</p>
<p>And, by the way, FSU (and every other school) likely does the same thing. They are selling the school(s) to students.</p>
<p>Here’s a current example of UF marketing:
[UF’s</a> 2008 class had an average 4.06 GPA and 1963 (out of 2400) SAT score.](<a href=“http://www.ufl.edu/facts/]UF’s”>http://www.ufl.edu/facts/)</p>
<p>Ok, so what exactly does this claim mean? “Accepted” students, who really may not enroll and thus have higher numbers, since UF is still considered a state “safety” school? “Enrolled” students, maybe? How about just the Top 10% of the 2008 class? Maybe just the “Fall” 2008 class, but not “Summer”, which is easier to gain acceptance to? See what I mean? I’m quite sure you do. :)</p>
<p>Here’s an easy example:
See: [Office</a> of Institutional Planning and Research - UF National Rankings](<a href=“http://www.ir.ufl.edu/nat_rankings.htm]Office”>Office of Institutional Planning and Research - UF National Rankings)</p>
<p>Seems reasonable, right? However, consider physics, a fungible, graduate (PhD) program. For 2008, the dreaded USNWR has UF and FSU on the same page: [Rankings</a> - Physics - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-physics-schools/rankings/page+2]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-physics-schools/rankings/page+2) and you could very well conclude FSU and UF are very close in training physics PhDs (I doubt if many could explain the difference between the two and suspect it would be political and thus nil).</p>
<p>UF presents it’s rankings like this: <a href=“http://www.ir.ufl.edu/nat_rankings/us_news/physics_old.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ir.ufl.edu/nat_rankings/us_news/physics_old.pdf</a> Clearly this is more favorable to UF and effectively eliminates a close competitor for grad students who want a PhD in physics. You’d think the MAJOR physics university about 120 miles away might make the list…but no - AND it uses the same USNWR (albeit from 2006). </p>
<p>Marketing. Pure and simple. ;)</p>
<p>This is collegeboard’s data analysis of ENROLLED freshmen. </p>
<p>University of Florida</p>
<p>[Academic</a> Tracker - Meet College Admission Requirements - High School Class Selection](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>
<p>Florida State</p>
<p>[Academic</a> Tracker - Meet College Admission Requirements - High School Class Selection](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>
<p>Did you notice how University of Florida surpasses Florida State in every category? </p>
<p>Is that marketing? Or is it data that shows enrolled freshmen at UF are of a much higher caliber than that of FSU? </p>
<p>p2n just uses obscure rankings, such as graduate physics, to warrant points that aren’t substantiated by the source material.</p>
<p>You can’t prove the universities are close to equal by one department that frankly nobody cares about.</p>
<p>Ryan, you don’t understand, quantitative measures that don’t agree with their point are biased marketing conspiracy. </p>
<p>UF ranks itself amongst it’s peers in AAU, and is upfront about it. FSU pulls inflated rankings out of nowhere, and doesn’t explain where they come from.</p>
<p>UF is marketing, FSU is being honest.</p>
<p>I don’t blame p2n for trying. It must be a humbling experience to know that everyone in the world who didn’t go to FSU recognizes UF’s superiority. If I was a seminole (<em>shudder</em>) I’d probably be looking for any excuse I could find that would make me feel better about the fact that I couldn’t get in to UF and had to settle for second-best.</p>
<p>“I couldn’t get in to UF and had to settle for second-best.”</p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that that’s the case for most 'Noles. There are plenty of us who turned down UF (or didn’t apply).</p>
<p>I do agree that arguing over ranks is pretty stupid though. It’s always going to be the “Let me find a list which ranks my school higher.” post every time.</p>
<p>Turned down UF, going to FSU Honors. Beyond the sports D could not find anything compelling her to attend. She wants an undergraduate focus at this time. In her area, UF does not do it well as far as we can tell after phone calls, requests for visits, etc. FSU extremely well. FSU teach is incredible.</p>
<p>Hi there -
I’m a UF Freshman. I definitely considered FSU Honors over UF seriously before turning in my tuition deposit on Saturday.<br>
FSU Honors didn’t fit the bill for what I needed. I had already completed a good deal of my pre-reqs [if I get predicted scores I will have 27 credits for college completed], and the honors program is only introductory (1000 and 2000 level courses) but I would be in the same classes in the upper echelon of my major anyhow.
The individualized attention is great, the introduction is great, the instruction is probably great too, but in the end it just wasn’t what I was looking for.
I enjoy UF’s bigger campus and similar (though not identical) sorority scene. The amenities of the campus are astounding and I can’t wait to take advantage of some of them.
You will succeed where you choose to succeed.
That’s all. No hooplah about rankings or anything like that.</p>
<p>Gotta find your “fit” and what suits you as an individual.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but except for a few specific majors, UF surpasses FSU. I’m not saying idiots go to FSU, but UF’s numbers are definitely better. UF doesn’t lie, they just embellish. Many people have to go to FSU Honors, but not many turn down UF if they get in. It’s almost like FSU Honors and UF are equal. That’s weird when only the honors college can compete with an entire university.</p>
<p>Well, cases in point - D1 was accepted to FSU and UF (both Honors programs). She turned UF down. It’s no big deal. D2, even with better grades, refused to even apply to UF even though we have family connections. So what? Its’ still ridiculous to assume UF is “superior” over Florida State in anything except their areas of strength. The reverse is also true. ;)</p>
<p>And again, if you assume Honors is only a few introductory classes you’d be passing up some substantial educational opportunities. Can’t speak to UF’s Honors program (though I suspect it is very similar) but FSU’s program is excellent.</p>
<p>For example, [as</a> I wrote earlier in another post](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064140722-post16.html]as”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064140722-post16.html):</p>
<p>The residual benefit of Honors (beyond initial classes) at FSU is that the priority registration lasts all 4 years. Honors housing can also last all 4 years, as do the university scholarships. It is more than just a few freshman classes, it is an introduction.</p>
<p>Additionally, unless you’re going to major in engineering or agriculture, FSU is as good or better than UF in terms of academics, faculty, facilities, campus, dorms, sports and intangibles. UF currently has a slight advantage in terms of admissions stats, but over history that has not amounted to much and changes over time between FSU and UF. For example, FSU’s freshman retention has increased to 91%, which places it with the top universities in the U.S. Once you get over 90% retention you are in fine company with your peers.</p>
<p>Honors at FSU is an entry into an entire undergraduate experience wherein a student has better access to faculty and research opportunities. Honors can lead to additional scholarships, fellowships, funded research, Honors-in-the-Major, publishing, study abroad, the Office of National Fellowships and more.</p>
<p>Can you do all these things with a regular admission? Sure. It is just harder and with each hurdle you must needlessly jump your goal stands that much farther off. Frequently success in academia is determined by who can best adapt and survive the onslaught of work. Why take a more difficult road, when a door or doors may be already open for you? Makes no sense to me.</p>
<p>I read this post today - written by an obviously bright student who was persuaded that US News ratings were everything. This is their story and while UF is not Emory the message is helpful.
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<p>So how many honors courses are offered for 3000 and 4000 levels if you think its more than just a few intro classes?</p>
<p>^ Here’s a few of the ones that will be available in Fall '10</p>
<p>"AFA3101 Honors Theory and Dynamics of Racism and Oppression
ARH3056 History and Criticism of Art I Honors
DAN3144 History and Philosophy of Dance Honors
DAN3146 History and Philosophy of Dance Honors
ENG3310 Honors Film<br>
HUM3321 Honors Multicultural Dimensions Film & Twentieth Century Culture
PHI 3800-02 Philosophy of Arts Honors
POS3713 Political Science Research Honors
PUP3002 Introduction to Public Policy Honors
SOP3004 Social Psychology Honors
SOP3004 Honors Social Psychology
REL3180 Honors Human Rights</p>
<p>and here are some the seminars and courses available in Spring '10 (right now):</p>
<p><a href=“http://honors.fsu.edu/Gfx/spring2010seminars.pdf[/url]”>http://honors.fsu.edu/Gfx/spring2010seminars.pdf</a>
<a href=“http://honors.fsu.edu/Gfx/spring2010courses.pdf[/url]”>http://honors.fsu.edu/Gfx/spring2010courses.pdf</a></p>
<p>Dnerd, so most of them are arts, dance, and film classes?</p>
<p>Here is the website for UF Honors courses:</p>
<p>[University</a> of Florida Honors Courses - Fall 2010](<a href=“http://www.honors.ufl.edu/courses/coursesfall10.html]University”>http://www.honors.ufl.edu/courses/coursesfall10.html)</p>
<p>Samples courses:</p>
<p>ANT3930 Molecular Genetics and Evolution
ANT4740 Introduction to Forensic Science
CHM3217 One-Semester Organic Chemistry
CHM3218 Bioorganic Chemistry
ECH4905 Patterns in Nature with Applications to Engineering and Science
EES4401 Public Health Engineering
ENC3254 Speaking and Writing for Engineers/Premed/Law Students
IDH4917 Undergraduate Research</p>
<p>etc, etc… I’m tired of copy/pasting, but you get the idea.</p>
<p>Much different scope and range of courses.</p>
<p>I guess? You just asked a question so I posted the list.</p>