<p>it can't be avoided, however.</p>
<p>haven't read this thread for a couple days, so i was checking back.</p>
<p>somebody mentioned that it is the chinese government that should be protested against, not china. however, it is china's nationalism that is causing the problems. it's china's nationalism that created the necessity to swallow surrounding nations. if china could just mind their business without bothering other peoples.</p>
<p>for bush about being re-elected, it's not because America supported bush, kerry is just not a better choice. and why risk instability in switching leadership? my family voted for kerry, because we disagree with bush, but not all families believe kerry is capable of making things better than the situation with bush. and back to my point about instability.</p>
<p>this thread started as a defense for taiwan. the last time i checked, i'm part of the few who supported their arguments with factual evidence. now, the thread has turned into china vs. US, so it's all opinion based. nobody is the "smartest" after that point. let's not bring that up, because if we're back to arguing about taiwan again, you chinese people are backed up to the wall.</p>
<p>The exact reason why this conversation shifted from China v. Taiwan to China v. US is because China can't defend the position of their claim to Taiwan unless they advocate for downright invasion. So, instead, they try to fight a theoretical war against the United States; one that will never happen.</p>
<p>Hahaha, soooo true! Hahaha.</p>
<p>have any of you read the Third World War by Humphry Hawksley?</p>
<p>Yeah, their arguments are over.</p>
<p>I haven't read this, and I don't think that it would contribute something.</p>
<p>
[quote]
it is china's nationalism that is causing the problems. it's china's nationalism that created the necessity to swallow surrounding nations. if china could just mind their business without bothering other peoples.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's an overgeneralization and a mischaracterization of popular Chinese opinion. I've been to mainland China recently, and from the sampling of voices that I've heard, Chinese citizens don't want some massive armed conflict. They just want to go about their daily lives. They have no quarrel with neither the Taiwanese people nor the Taiwanese government. They mildly dislike Americans for our showy foreign policy, but it's not at all a belligerent attitude.</p>
<p>Keep the policies of the Chinese government separate from popular Chinese belief. In America, you grow up to believe that the government is voice of the people and vice versa - not always the case with communist China. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That's because it takes a prideless (or extremely self-controlled) Chinese person to take the overgeneralized, unwarranted attacks you guys make on the Chinese population as a whole without getting angry. Of course if you insult my background and my race I'm going to get mad and argue back.</p>
<p>Of course if you insult my background and my race I'm going to get mad and argue back.</p>
<p>Why so many Chinese here, and so few Americans? Do you see how they kill for their country, and you?</p>
<p>And you're from Kansas?? Get out BACK! I'm tired of these spies, who spoil every country they live in.</p>
<p>How old is stardragon... 5? i highly doubt a spy would post on a CC forum.</p>
<p>No, I'm not 5. You're seriosly misinformed about my age. :)</p>
<p>"Spy" was abstract expression with other sense. Of course, he's not a spy. </p>
<p>Why are you commenting my every word, even not understanding them?</p>
<p>By the way, what's going on in Kyrgyzstan?</p>
<p>It seems like quasi-communists took the power. Felix Kulov, who is now extricated from the jail to become the leader, was the chief of Kyrgyz KGB.</p>
<p>I don't think that this revolution is alike Ukrainian or Georgian. I don't think that USA participated here. Maybe China?</p>
<p>Though I have no sufficient information to conclude anything certain.</p>
<p>im not even gna bother reading all the ten pages of stuff here. but i'll just tell you what is really going on over here in taiwan...
i duno if any of you ppl even live here....
bt anyway..this is as simple as this: taiwan is not a country.
(yeh..mayb it is to some 3rd world countries and stuff....)
in taiwan, all people do is TALK. yep. t-a-l-k.
everything is bs. they sit around and talk about getting independence.
the f<em>uckin "president" right now makes elaborate speeches to get votes. and then he doesnt do jack *</em><strong><em>.
when time come where we'll need to fight for the cause, no one would.
seriously. ppl here do alot of talking and bsing. and no action whatsoever. you turn on the damn news and you see senators having fist fights and throwing food regularly in the council sessions. low class folks we have here.
ppl here are so *</em></strong>*in obsessed w/ the US even when they're not gna back us up when the time comes..
cuz. uh. seriously. who does US or anybody else wana do business w/? taiwan or china?...lol...thats a no brainer...
taiwan just ridiculously hopes for independence bt is afraid to declare it...how pathetic is that?!...if china comes. let them come. taiwan thinks it can getaway w/ independence w/o paying a price?!..uh huh. philosophy of the rich and comfortable ppl. and the ignorant as well.
so what if theres a president. if no one recognizes taiwan as a country. it still isnt no matter what. taiwan just. exists.</p>
<p>Can you rewrite your post in normal English? This is not readable</p>
<p>With so many censored words and hoi-polloi speeches, I don't see the reason why you should stay on this very "smart" forum.</p>
<p>smart forum eh?...
lol...thats funny....
you guys..keep speaking in such a sophisticated way..as if this topic is so worth debating about...sigh....theres no point in making things so elite-sounding...its plain and simple. and conversational.
im tired of reading all this stuff thats seems so professional..and polished and whatnot....as if u like actually write drafts and edit them before u post or somethin....</p>
<p>just read it. if u dont like it. then so be it. i suppose if its not so coherently presented, its all worthless right? psh. whatever then.</p>
<p>so smurf, you live in taiwan?</p>
<p>smurf's family came from china with chiang kai shek most likely. there's a difference in opinion with native taiwanese and mainland taiwanese. smurf's an example of a mainland taiwanese. and they consist of 14% of the total population. he doesn't know what's going on, and will never understand.</p>
<p>taiwan isn't a country - yet. and cannot declare independence without first obtaining security and ensuring stability. we have nukes and 500+ missiles aiming at us, and the world is pressuring us not to make a move. we don't have the power or, or we've done it already. yes, when the time comes, taiwanese people will make the sacrifice for international recognition.</p>
<p>if it's so simple, then why the controversies and debates? again, yes, taiwan is not a country, but neither is it part of a country. this is all because of china.</p>
<p>it's time for all of us to leave.</p>
<p>Stardragon, your ignorant comments destroy the credibility of your side of the argument. That's a shame, because tlaktan, l33twinkie, and others have made good points supporting Taiwanese independence - then you make a post saying "Get out BACK! I'm tired of these spies, who spoil every country they live in" and you overshadow their valid points with your totally senseless ones. </p>
<p>At first I thought your blatantly racist comments were just tasteless jokes, then I realized how frequently you post here and how much time you devote to being a bigot.</p>
<p>Oh, and as a policy debater, I can't help but do a line-by-line here. Ignore this if you want (it doesn't add much substance to the thread) but I feel that I'm morally bound to do this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why so many Chinese here, and so few Americans? Do you see how they kill for their country, and you?
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your grammar sucks. Badly. To the point that you commonly make no sense. If I didn't know better I'd say you were a foreigner. =</p></li>
<li><p>I've gone over why Chinese people feel like they must argue against Taiwanese independence. Apart from the actual issue itself, it's also largely because you insult Chinese people with your racist comments so we feel the need to respond. </p></li>
<li><p>If I made a post calling all Americans spies, leeches, and conformists, I'm sure you'd be mad and respond likewise. So try to be at least a little bit considerate, not hypocritical.</p></li>
<li><p>I don't fully understand your second sentence because of its poor syntax. If you're insinuating that Chinese people kill for their country, that's terribly hypocritical; Americans (and any other humans with a strong sense of nationalism) are willing to kill for their country also. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>
[quote]
And you're from Kansas?? Get out BACK! I'm tired of these spies, who spoil every country they live in.
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Once again your poor control of the English language shows. What the hell does "Get out BACK" mean? Are you saying that I should go to the Australian outback?</p></li>
<li><p>If you mean I should permanently go back to reside in China, then...my response is, no. =\ If you feel the need to continue this kind of racist, elitist resentment, go join the KKK or Aryan Nation. </p></li>
<li><p>The comment about spies has neither warrants nor pertinence. I am unaware of how I've "spoiled" America. Elaborate on this half-baked point and I'll shoot it down later.</p></li>
<li><p>Your ancestors were not from America. Technically, nobody is; even Native Americans migrated from Asia. If I'm a foreign "spy" trying to "spoil" the country, then so are you. Blatant hypocrisy reveals your ignorance and lack of intelligence. Yes, I'm calling you stupid.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'm about 99% sure that you'll choose to ignore most, if not all, of my arguments. That's fine, it will just show your ignorance and lack of support for anything you say.</p>
<p>lol jimmy eatworld... i was eating and then i saw that, way to go man haha</p>
<p>
I will not let Chinese communism, human rights violation, language, hieroglyphs be prolifirated worldwide. Though, don't think I want everything American to be dissiminated everywhere. Let's live in our present borders.
</p>
<p>Moron, the very reason why China turned communist back in 1949 was because of the Communist USSR. During the Chinese civil war Mao Zedong recieved massive funding from the russians.</p>