<p>You can't write properly. And no, I am not 13. I'm a law student in the UK.</p>
<p>So I'm talking to "English student"? Are from Oxford? wow :)</p>
<p>I think you should pay more attention on what I'm writing, instead of how I'm writing.</p>
<p>I very respect England and English education, and I never thought that so childish student could study there with speeches like "continue to be on the dark side of the moon".</p>
<p>But I never respected Chinese, who use English and American education to improve their own country.</p>
<p>China isn't the only nation doing that ok?......~<em>~ So you can say you don't expect other nations as well. Like who now a days don't come to America for an education and flight back after they graduate? ~</em>~ What a commento....."but I never respected Chinese, who use English and American education to improve their own country."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Bush represents the views of Americans, the majority of people voted for him. What can I say? He didn't just "seize" the power, it was given to him.</p>
<p>I've lived in the USA my entire life.</p>
<p>So aren't you one of that traitors, who will once destroy America from the inside? I even wonder how many Americans are against their own country.</p>
<p>I am against communist government as well as the very China, because you, Chinese, really souly support it. There is no such drift between gvt and ppl in China as it was in USSR.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't put words in my mouth. I respect American for what it is, and the ideals on which it was founded. What I don't respect, is the decision of the people to vote for Bush. I feel that some changes need to be made to its policies, particularly its foreign policy. No, I'm not a "traitor" I have no intention of "destroying America from inside." Thats ridiculous, even if I could.</p>
<p>Just because I support China, does not mean I am against the USA, and attempting to destroy it. Perhaps you need to get the "you're with us or against us" mentality out of your mind.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I never respected Chinese, who use English and American education to improve their own country.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Education is for everyone, you are not obligated to only share your education in the country you recieve. In that case, all of the 3rd world countries would stay 3rd world forever. I don't see whats so wrong with using your education to help less fortunate people in your home country. Perhaps some people still have some sense of obligation to their homeland.</p>
<p>sentient89,
totally agree. what a stupid comment "i dont respect Chinese, those who use education to improve their own country." oh please.....like China is the only one doing so? ~_~ Ur saying it like "I don't respect rich people, those who use education to improve their economy in the future or make big money out of their education."</p>
<p>Oh yeah Stardragon,
Does questioning the majority automatically make someone a traitor? There is a big distinction between questioning someone and wanting to destroy them. I feel that the decisions made by the USA are not the best for itself in the long run, that is not synonymous with wanting to blow up buildings and destroying the USA, I was under the impression you had the mental capability to distinguish between that. </p>
<p>I suppose by your logic, the majority of the great thinkers out there can be considered traitors too. Copernicus, Newton, Galileo, Mendel, Luther, Erasmus, to name a few. They wanted to change things for the better. Thats not such a bad list to be on I guess. You may add the name Sentient89 to that list of "traitors" if it suits you.</p>
<p>Stardragon,
So many of your arguments and accusations are so fallacy-ridden that arguing with you is rather pointless. You base most of your arguement on opinion as opposed to factual information.</p>
<p>Anyways, I'm finished. It's been fun, but this arguement is pointless; it isn't going to change anyone's mind in the end.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Good god, did someone you know personally get tortured or something? And what position are you in, to declare that the USA doesn't do any of this? Unless you're Rumsfeld's son or something, I don't think you're in that position.</p>
<p>Bush represents the views of Americans, the majority of people voted for him. What can I say? He didn't just "seize" the power, it was given to him.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The best way to figure out whether or not a nation does something is to take the most extreme case of torture that a nation has done; and then use it as the maximum case. In this situation, it would be (most recently) Abu Ghraib's torture scandal, along with a long laundry list of other inappropriate activities that the United States has taken part in.</p>
<p>Last I checked, however, we didn't run over anyone with a battle tank intentionally. If the liberal press can make a huge deal out of a marijuana scandal, it can certainly find out about someone getting run over by a tank. Everyone wants to become a celebrity nowadays.</p>
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Uh no... China used to be much larger, it included Korea, parts of Russia, and mongolia. I don't know you're spouting again. Stop making up things.
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<p>I don't quite know about the Russia and Mongolia part, but the Korea part I can attest to -- you're quite wrong in the matter, historical Koryo and other Korean dynasties stretched into the Eastern wing of China -- so no, China didn't include Korea (borders were fluid, so I can't say this applied 100% of the time).</p>
<p>
[quote]
And yeah, everyone has the right to protest, no matter who organizes them, even though I highly doubt peace protesters are connected with anti-american-communist forces in the east, rofl. On the news there were a several articles about how PEACEFUL, NONVIOLENT protesters were arrested. Not ones trying to over throw the govt, even so, does the USA have the right to arrest them? Its been criticizing China for arresting them.
[/quote]
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<p>In America, they're protestors. In China, they're dissenters. In America, force is used to quell them in case they get excessively violent. In China, force is used to quell them. Period.</p>
<p>
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I don't think you guys understand. Its not like people in China have any real use for Taiwan, you guys are just a small island, no offense. But if the USA were to establish a base in Taiwan, it would be a major threat to China.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just like <em>cough</em> Cuba <em>cough</em> right? Khruschev and the like? I'm surprised no one mentioned ** that ** particular Capitalism vs. Communism occasion. </p>
<p>So if the State Department issued a promise to withdraw from Taiwan immediately, on the basis that Taiwan never see an ounce of military invasion from China -- that means China will hand Taiwan its independency? I think not. This is all a bad case of nationalistic pride. China can't simply admit that it has lost this battle and that it should hand over the reins to a democratic government.</p>
<p>
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Posting a quote relating to liberty still doesn't explain why protesters should be suppressed.
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<p>Like they are in China?</p>
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The protesters have the right to express their views, they are indeed legitimate views.
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</p>
<p>Like they are in China?</p>
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Are their views a threat to the lives of other people? No. Are they a threat to the govt? Possibly, but is that so wrong? Are we no longer allowed to challenge the government?
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</p>
<p>Like they are in China?</p>
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Is it suddenly the new god? Is it so wrong to doubt the loss of over 15,000 lives over the Iraq war?
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</p>
<p>No, but we're not an authoritarian regime who tries to cap the loss of ground in the propaganda war with a complete block of the mainstream media.</p>
<p>It's not like CNN and Fox News are government sponsored, you know. And they don't necessarily represent the same ideology, like Xinhua and the People's Daily do.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Your statements are completely contradictory, by your standards, protesters should not be allowed to challenge the government(its okay to arrest peaceful protesters), while the Taiwanese should be allowed to challenege the Chinese govt(its not okay to arrest anti-govt. dissidents). I smell some double standards.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And I smell some double-standards here. You're defending a nation notoriously known for its oppression of free speech and yet you use an example of free speech and protesting to defend your argument? How's that for a fallacy?</p>
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[quote]
Isn't this freedom of speech what the founders of the USA fought for? Its already been refreshed with blood. The current government is revoking those very freedoms, which have been bought with blood of the forefathers of America.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't forefather me. Every nation has endured some sort of violent struggle in the effort to survive and to succeed in the name of what it is today. I don't need to be hearing hackneyed rhetoric to defend a very weak argument.</p>
<p>Let's face facts -- China's main concern is to win a psychological battle -- against Taiwan. What would happen if China admitted to the People that -- <em>gasp</em> Taiwan had been lost? What then? The psychological hold that the PRC and the Politburo have on the people would be broken -- and no longer would the idea that China has a diplomatic stronghold-like presence in the world prevail. China's state would be weakened.</p>
<p>The Politburo knows this. So do the members of the National Assembly. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The USA is being hypocritical, suppressing its protesters, while criticizing China for its human rights abuses. Who are you guys to say that the USA is right about its governing policies, while China is right? And who are you to so that the USA has the right to interfere, even if China's policies are wrong?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You fell into the very fallacy that you presented for the United States (the example of protestors was a very weak one, for the country you defend is quite possibly the most notorious suppressors of free speech in the Far East.)</p>
<p>I bet that everyone on this thread, who defends China, is Chinese or, at least, Asian.</p>
<p>Anyways, I'm finished. It's been fun, but this arguement is pointless; it isn't going to change anyone's mind in the end.</p>
<p>Of course, I never minded changing your mind or anybody's else.</p>
<p>Don't compare yourself with Newton etc, they moved science, you betray your own country. </p>
<p>And China never included Russia or Mongolia. What a stupidity! </p>
<p>I will not let Chinese communism, human rights violation, language, hieroglyphs be prolifirated worldwide. Though, don't think I want everything American to be dissiminated everywhere. Let's live in our present borders.</p>
<p>Comments on Eva's "chinese foreign education" question. Of course, every country does it, but not every country wants to nuke usa, to detroy everything western, latin american, african, indian etc. Modern technologies are very dangerous. I especially worry about mitESE.</p>
<p>I wud just like to raise another point</p>
<p>How can any of you who support China defend its genocide of Tibetans?
How can you be so sure that it wont happen in Taiwan?</p>
<p>
[quote]
How can any of you who support China defend its genocide of Tibetans?
How can you be so sure that it wont happen in Taiwan?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thanks akash for reminding! Exactly, there had been a genocide of almost every non-Chinese nation in China. Including Uigurs.</p>
<p>Btw, where are Blackdream and bigjake?</p>
<p>the early americans massacred the indians... how can we be so sure that it wont happen to iraq?
you guys are fools.</p>
<p>We're fools, and you're Jesus Christ!! Great!:)</p>
<p>the early americans massacred the indians... how can we be so sure that it wont happen to iraq?</p>
<p>Hasnt it already been happening?Or is the figure of 15000 Iraqis killed in the war not enough to constitute a massacre?</p>
<p>and what about the My Lai massacre?</p>
<p>my point is that stardragon is under the impression that America is a perfect nation... and he frequently compares the US vs. China... in reality, all nations have had a dark park of history at one time or another so it is unfair to point out all the negative times of Chinese history and ignore America's.</p>
<p>good point u made there xmaspoop</p>
<p>But that doesnt excuse Chinese actions to annex Taiwan,just like it did with Tibet.</p>
<p>in reality, all nations have had a dark park of history at one time or another so it is unfair to point out all the negative times of Chinese history and ignore America's.</p>
<p>Maybe America isn't perfect, but it is WAY more democratic and free, inspite of all those happenings. But America is of my civilization (the most of people call it western), and China is of yours, so I have no reason to support it, even if it has the same amount of bad sides.</p>
<p>Hasnt it already been happening?Or is the figure of 15000 Iraqis killed in the war not enough to constitute a massacre?</p>
<p>This is called war situation. During the war, the soldiers don't care about amount of killed enemies. So should you do. Why when we say about WWII, don't we remember about some 15,000 people? Because it's war!! I also don't care about those 10,000 Iraqi guerillas, who died as soldiers. They knew what would be with them.</p>
<p>Genocide is massive killing of whole nation in the peaceful time. When the government says "What are you talking about? Nothing is going on! Nobody dies." , but the hundreds of people are killed in the same time. That's what happened to Uigurs, Chechens, maybe even Indians, Kurds in Iraq, Jews in Germany.</p>
<p>And if 15,000 of deaths is genocide then you really just hate America.</p>
<p>if people are to die in a war, it should only be soldiers. innocent civilians should never be harmed regardless of the situation. i would have thought that you would know this, as all "civilized people" like yourself read the geneva conventions... right?</p>