I was speaking with my London based team this morning. We are an investment management firm with a substantial presence in the UK. At the end of the call (with this thread in mind) I privately asked the manager what he thought of Brown University. He said he hadn’t heard of it. I told him it was an Ivy League school in the US. His response: “oh ok. Haven’t heard of it”.
This is someone who regularly interviews and hires for our London office. I am guessing even fewer people have heard of Amherst.
Yes. As mentioned above, Brown v.Amherst v.Bowdoin wouldn’t really matter in terms of name recognition - I once had to contextualize Yale. If you do, people nod and understand. “Have you heard of…” is not a good gauge, especially when you’re talking Social Sciences&Humanities.
What would matter is the resume. For the UK, a prestigious work placement/summer internship in the UK could add ‘elite legitimacy’ for fields where it’s required. And the Ivy League + meet need/need blind for internationals all have international contacts galore.
In other words, OP shouldn’t choose based on name recognition or whether friends would be impressed. Fit is one traditional criterion but here, due to the family’s income, Brown being need aware complicates matters tremendously, since she’ll be in the international pool and Brown only has very few full rides on offer.
It sounds like op’s daughter’s fantastic extracurricular invokes an internship in UK politics, and Congress was just used as an analogy. I’m unsure that will be particularly impressive to a U.S. university.
If a company recognizes ONLY the names of Harvard and Oxbridge, but not Yale or MIT, I seriously doubt it’s a company that a truly outstanding student even wants to work for.
People are splitting hairs here. If this student gets into Harvard, Oxbridge, Brown, or Amherst, she is going to do extremely well for herself. No reputable employer in the UK is NOT going to have heard of Yale. And even if they haven’t, I seriously doubt this student will have a hard time getting a job once back in the UK.
Am I right that the custodial parent earns £20,000 a year? The student should attend whatever school is the least expensive.
Numerous surveys (yes, companies pay for this data) indicate that among the general population in the US, the “best” universities are Notre Dame and whatever colleges are doing well in basketball. Different surveys indicate that the strongest alumni networks in the country are SMU, Smith, and a few of the Catholic colleges.
What does this tell you? Nothing.
There are miserable people at every college- and many of them do just fine in life. But I’m assuming the OP is hoping not just for the eventual outcome, but for a really positive, rigorous, challenging educational experience at an affordable price. So if the D’s inclination is for a “Brown like” experience, Yale is closer to Brown than Harvard is.
One of my colleagues went to Yale but people don’t necessarily go ‘wow’ over it in the same way as Harvard. In the midst of the other Oxford and Cambridge grads on my floor, it doesn’t stand out.
But Harvard is Harvard - it has a reputation that’s just unshakeable. Whatever they’ve managed to do, there’s just an aura around Harvard.
I can’t really explain it. Both Harvard and Yale are insanely hard to get into.
I’m in Asset Management myself so I can’t speak for what it’s like at other firms but I think people would be like why did you go to Brown over a UK university etc.
Sorry, but I cannot imagine anyone saying that in the UK or anywhere else. I lived there for 20 years and my family are Brits. Yes, it’s famous, but there is nothing especially magical about Harvard. In fact, I’d say that if someone is looking for an “aura”, go to Cambridge.
Sorry, but I cannot imagine anyone saying that in the UK or anywhere else.
Well, here’s me saying it then as someone currently in the UK.
Yes, it’s famous, but there is nothing especially magical about Harvard
I’ve got to disagree.
Getting into Harvard is far, far harder than getting into Cambridge or Oxford.
Unless you’re a well-connected elite, you have to be pretty exceptional to get into Harvard. From the people I know who went to Harvard, they won countless awards, did research at a national level, and won mock trial competitions.
Getting into Oxford or Cambridge just means you’ve essentially studied hard and are good at your subject. They’re excellent schools but Harvard is Harvard.
You wouldn’t have parents donating $8.7 milllion+ to Oxford or Cambridge (not to mention, it wouldn’t help).
The other kid who was given the tour had parents who ended up donating over $13m total to the university.
To have those kind of kids within your network is exceptional.
But I’ll stop now because we’re getting off-topic.
To keep it on topic, I’d apply SCEA to Harvard because it keeps your options open. You can apply to Cambridge at the same time.
You’ve drunk the Harvard Kool-aid which is fantastic.
I will need to find a fascinating article- a study conducted BY Harvard ABOUT Harvard alums which concluded that a not insignificant percentage of Harvard’s alums had achieved- getting into Harvard. period. The apex of their lives. The study was launched to try and explain Harvard’s large alumni giving rate (and not just among the wealthy and famous- school teachers donating $50 and social workers stretching to be part of their reunion class gift.) It was a great read.
Harvard is a wonderful institution. And for the right kid- Harvard College can be a fantastic and mind-blowing (in a good way) and incredible experience. For some kids, it’s fine-- maybe not the right fit, but the classes are challenging and they’ve made good friends. And for some kids it’s terrible.
I would never discourage anyone from ANY of Harvard’s graduate programs. By then someone is a fully baked adult- is likely not living on campus anyway-- so if you dislike your section-mates at the B-school or think your study partners from the law school are all tools and grinders-- just get over it, learn as much as you can, take advantage of the networking, and go live your life.
But undergrad? It’s just not the right place for a lot of smart and talented kids… in the sense that there are better places for them.
OP’s D will need to make trade-offs of course- and affordability is probably the biggest “must have” on the table right now. But I’m not ready to conclude that just because folks say “wow, you must be special”, this is the way the decision needs to fall.
OP wouldn’t have started the thread if it were as simple as that!!!
She has never been anywhere outside of her rural village (except 2 weeks in France taken by her friends family) but knows I’ve lived in 21 countries so I’m not sure if I should be concerned if that is influencing her wonder lust, but there is nothing I can do about that so should stop overthinking.*
Not sure how to quote and above is from one of the OP’s post. Never been outside her rural village pops out for a potential big adjustment. I imagine her visit to the US when she tours with her program/school will be so helpful. It sounds like she has no or limited experience in London too - or maybe I am misunderstanding? Even if she does not get to see Harvard, Yale or Brown - it should give her a much better feel for what areas in the US - rural, big city, smaller city etc fit her personality and her comfort level, as what as different US school climates and then she can evaluate HY&B based off her info learned.
It is great that you are thinking about this now and gathering information - you have some time and the US trip should glean some insight for all. Also, fabulous that she has the support of an organization for this process - wishing you and your daughter all the best.
Wow a lot of responses so quickly. Not sure if covered but your daughter is dyslexic and language will prove a challenge.
So not only will Harvard prove a challenge but most colleges here will.
I think Brown is known worldwide but what exactly will she do with the prestige ? Prestige brings no guarantees.
And how will she handle being four years on campus, day after day after day.
Harvard just accepted 3.4% of applicants. Not sure anyone can say ‘high chance.’
If she does not excel in math or language and science (you noted physics) and she hasn’t had language since 14, I don’t see how you can be admitted to either and many more in the US.
But based on what you wrote Brown is the better choice. And with those who need to know, very well known. I can’t say which gives the best odds but Harvard doesn’t have ED. They have restricted early action and it gives no advantage over RD. Their words. Not mine. Brown says similarly. So REA at Harvard or ED at Brown - choose the best fit. Or better yet don’t apply early at all.
Stopped reading at about comment #90. But here’s my reaction.
She should apply REA or ED to whichever college she likes best. Trying to game it out based on “better” chance to get in is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Her chance of getting in any of these colleges is very, very, very, very, very tiny. She’s not the only one who is a tippy-top student.
And a recommendation from an MP or member of congress or whatever is not a leg up. Unless she was the MP’s full-time chief of staff. Trust me, Harvard, Brown, etc. have seen it all. Recommendations from heads of state, royalty, Bill Gates, the Dalai Lama.
Also, Harvard is not the “best” university in the world. It’s the most well known. The best university is the one that is the best for HER.
Apply to the ones she likes that would provide the most generous financial aid.