UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
4201

@Blugrn6

No I apologies to you if I made you feel that you offended me. You raised points and questions, and that is how truth is found. I appreciate ALL of your comments, those to me, as well as your general information!!

Thank you for taking so much of your busy time to help us.

And sorry, you are not “old.”

UMKC has many pluses, and I like how it is geared to “treating” and “caring” for people, not research or book studies! UMKC is not top tier, but who determines top? And why is research better than helping a sick child? I really do like UMKC in many ways.

4202

@PinkPrincess2014‌

Those are students who did not match their original choice.
To protect their identity I will just explain in general terms:
Either they did a specialty that required a prelimary year and matched their prelim year but not their speciality. Or their specialty didn’t reqiure a prelim year and they didn’t match and through the SOAP process matched into a prelimnary year spot.
Ideally If your Desired speciality requires a prelim year than you just do your prelim year and apply again.
If you specialty doesn’t require a prelim year at least you did something that year before you re applied. In some cases those students who do prelim surgery end up staying at that same program as a categorical resident (meaning they will stay for 4 more years and finish general surgery residency). Same thing for medicine prelim. It becomes harder for transitional year students just because it’s harder for them to stay on as categorical residents (not impossible) just because they have different curriculum than a prelim or first year internal medicine resident.

I hope that helps clear up the confusion.

4203

@HopingMD, you are no doubt very smart, if not gifted, if you created a medical/electronic device at such a young age. I think your scores support this. While I accept those postulates 1-4, it is very short sighted of you to think 2 years is saving a lot of time or that you’ll be saving reams of people earlier bc of your healing capabilities 1-2 years earlier. 1-2 years is a drop in the bucket especially when you consider that you will be doing residency and likely a fellowship. Also, part of education, is the quality of that education, and in medicine, the institutional pedigree can very much affect where you go, and this includes the residency match. Even at UMKC, even AOA candidates do at least 1 year of research, to go into certain highly competitive fields.

As of RIGHT NOW in the match, the DO stigma is still very much there and real. I have friends who went through the match. No question. It has nothing to do with the letters itself but the quality of education especially at the hospitals DO students rotate at in their MS-3 year. A lot of times DOs rotate at community, non-academic medical center hospitals. You can go on other websites and speak with real medical students, residents, and attendings, who will be able to tell you the real deal when it comes to how much being a DO affected them in the match. You are very much correct, DOs can apply for DO residencies and MD residencies, and take the COMLEX and USMLE exams. The ACTUAL RESULTS are what I am talking about are very much different though in terms of receiving an interview and eventually matching. There are certain places who will not even look at your application if you are DO: Wash U’s residency programs, NYU, etc. which I would hardly say are “backwoods places”. Ironic for you to say that actually, because many DO residencies are in rural areas. There are certain places that used to recruit DOs heavily, but had a change in program faculty, and started recruiting heavily from the MD pool and stopped taking DOs. There are many residencies where you will see not even one DO on the residency roster. Yes, in the end DO and MD are the same in terms of licensing and scope of practice, of course, and I’ve had tons of DOs I’ve worked with in med school and residency. However, it’s the match where the difference is the greatest especially in the most competitive specialties. Don’t be fooled, right now in the match there is very much a difference. If you see the KCUMB match list (the DO school in Kansas City), and compare it to the list of UMKC, the institutions just won’t compare. It’s one thing to go there if you get absolutely no acceptances to any allopathic schools, but it’s another thing to go in there from the very beginning.

4204

For those who were interested in DO schools, here is a comparison of the DO school in the same city as UMKC: https://www.kcumb.edu/academics/college-of-osteopathic-medicine/eras-residency/match-statistics/

They will probably post their 2015 match list shortly, but you can make the direct comparison in terms of specialties and in terms of institutions that their graduates are able to match in vs. those of UMKC’s MD graduates. KCUMB is one of the more established DO schools. Keep in mind their class size is much bigger than UMKC’s class.

4205

A slight addition to what @Bluegrn6 said. At UMKC, you aren’t ranked at all, which is correct. There will be nothing saying “_________ is ranked 5 out of 88 students” on your transcript or any official document. However, in Year 6 when you start applying for residencies, the medical school will release a Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE) on you. All medical schools do this for the residency match. It’s essentially a letter that tells very briefly about you, states briefly your cumulative GPA, and Step 1 score, and then goes through each clerkship starting in Year 3 - Clinic, Docent Rotation, Surgery, Pediatrics, OB-Gyn, Family Medicine, Psychiatry, etc. with the grade (Honors/High Pass/Satisfactory Pass/Marginal Pass/Fail), shelf exam score, and any evaluation comments you got on that rotation/clerkship.

At the end of the MSPE, the class is split up into 5-6 groups: Like Outstanding, Superior, Excellent, Very Good, Good, etc. Each word corresponds with the section of the class you fall in. Like Superior means top 5%, Excellent means the next 10%, etc. They may have changed it somewhat after me in terms of the words and what percentages they correspond to. Residencies are thus able to tell which part of the class you fall in based on this. It’s based on a formula that somehow combines your cumulative GPA, your clinical clerkship grades, and USMLE Step 1 score, but no one knows what the exact formula is in terms of how much the above factors contribute

AOA is the honor society reserved for the top 25% of the class to be nominated, but only 1/6 of the total class can be actually inducted, out of that top 25% group. The top 25% is calculated using the Latin Honors Criteria in Year 5 - Summa Cum Laude, Magna Cum Laude, and Cum Laude: http://med.umkc.edu/docs/coe/COE-Policy-Manual.pdf. Your Step 1 score doesn’t factor into AOA - you just had to have passed it the first time. It’s kind of weird because there will be some people who get inducted into AOA, but don’t have high board scores, and some people who don’t get inducted to AOA but have high board scores. Every AOA chapter decides exactly how they want to nominate/induct members for their specific medical school.

The one thing that could potentially suck is that the cumulative GPA includes Year 1 when you’re essentially a freshman in college figuring things out, how to study differently, etc. At all other BS/MD programs, where the undergraduate and medical school are separated, you get a clean slate when you start the medical school part for your MSPE and AOA calculation. Just something to keep in mind.

4206

@Roentgen @UMKCRoosMD @blugrn6 So, if I want to do “ROAD” or any other lifestyle specialty, is it safe to say that I need to extend my schooling by a year, or just start research early on? I do not want to have to extend to get into a competitive specialty when I could just go 4+4. Also, if I want to compete for ROAD/lifestyle specialties what suggestions or thoughts should I take into consideration before I start the program and when I am in the program?

4207

@HopingMD @PinkPrincess2014 and ALL OTHER UMKC APPLICANTS

I called the office of admissions last Thursday and admission notifications will be out no later than this Friday, March the 27th. :slight_smile:

4208

@ang331,

The spectrum of so-called “lifestyle” specialties can span from something very competitive such as Dermatology/Ophthalmalogy all the way down to PM&R/Psych which at least at the very moment isn’t very competitive - this can change in the future since more and more people are finding out about PM&R. Also there are fields that can be great lifestyle specialties as an attending but definitely not as a resident: i.e. Ortho doing only knee replacements, ENT, Plastics. Most of the time someone takes a year off if they believe they have a real high chance of not matching in their specialty based on their USMLE Step 1 score, their grades and class standing up to to that point, and the amount of research they have in that specific specialty at that point.

Radiology used to be very competitive, but apparently is no longer, mainly bc of the much tighter job market for radiologists and the need for fellowships. I believe lifestyle is still relatively good though if you were to compare it to something like IM. Of @UMKCRoosMD’s list, I would say Dermatology and Ophthalmalogy might require taking 1 year off to go do research somewhere else, before coming back for Year 6 and going for the match. The UMKC Ophtho clinical physician faculty themselves don’t do that much actual research themselves (although they’ve now recruited PhDs I think who mainly do the research part which students participate in). I also heard from my classmates interested in Ophtho that the UMKC Ophtho dept. isn’t that great in terms of ACTIVE mentorship of students, and many times expect AOA, etc. before they’ll even take the effort to help you - if you look at this year’s match list the 2 people who matched into Ophtho - both people were AOA and they matched into other programs. Dermatology can be hit or miss it seems based on the year, but you’d probably be much safer to do a year off of Derm research.

The rest of the specialties - Anesthesia, Radiology, EM, PM&R, Pathology, Psychiatry are nowhere so competitive to have to take a year off from med school to do research, although if you did you could probably get into even better residency programs in those fields.

4209

Thank you @ang331! Good to find out on Friday and get it 4 days early before the national April 1 deadline.

4210

Did anyone get a thank you card from UMKC saying “thank you for interviewing , hope you enjoy the campus?” It doesn’t mean anything and wondering if anyone got it

4211

@ang331‌

I don’t think that coming to UMKC fully closes your door to doing ROAD specialities.
If you want to do something super intense: radiation oncology, neurosurgery, plastic surgery, cardio thoracic surgery or dermatology, you might have to extend by a year but that’s not a requirement.
It all depends on when you decide what you want to do with your life. Some students have had an experience early on that draws them to a certain specialty so they are able to get a head start on research and are able to avoid taking a year off for research. Of all the students that matched neurosurgery, dermatology, ophthalmology, radiology, anesthesiology, and orthopedic surgery this year, none of them took a year off to do research and they were all able to match into their preferred choices for the most part. With the exception of that one guy who matched ortho at harvard, I think he took a year off.
However, there is another student who will be joining our class who is doing dermatology and took a year off to do research. Nothing is set in stone.

Taking a year off essentially boils down to a couple things:

  1. Are you doing something that only has minimum spots in the country. For example, radiation oncology has like 20 spots a year (someone correct me if i’m wrong), medicine-dermatology combined program has 6 spots every year, and CT surgery only has 15 programs total. In that case, rarely do you build up enough research to make yourself “competitive” in the applicant pool even with stellar board scores and excellent clinical evals.
  2. If speciality is not that intense but are you making up for a flaw in your application. Some get sub par board scores but still don’t want to give up their dream for doing ophthalmology or derm, etc and take a year off to make connections and strengthen their application with like x number of publications.
  3. Do you want to go somewhere super intense. Like the guy who matched orthopedics at harvard this year, he was not a part of this graduating class but took a year off to do research to get his dream program. I mean I know him from around the medical school and he is just super brilliant. I mean he has presented his research at international conferences in Germany, Italy, etc. I can’t comment on the reason why he took a year off either, because he gave a talk at one of our student research interests groups and he already had like 15 or so publications before he took his year off. Maybe it was just really important to him and he voluntarily choose to do so, I’m really just speculating at this point.

I would say this: if and when you decide to come here and want to do a more competitive speciality start poking around early. Figure out what you like, and what you don’t like. Honestly, a lot of this stuff you won’t realize until you’re in your third year of core rotations anyways. But you can do certain things to help your case. If you are interested in a certain speciality you can take that elective late in your fourth year or early fifth year to see if you like it. If you are interested in surgical subspecialties but know that ob/gyn is not for you, when you set your schedule, do surgery first and ob/gyn last etc.

I know the two students who matched neurosurgery and plastic surgery this year. One fell in love with surgery after her surgery clerkship and it was completely unexpected for her. One fell in love with it after taking an elective early in fourth year and they were both able to match successfully without taking a year off.
The best resources you have will be your older years who matched into whatever it is that you like. They will give you the best first hand advice on your application, and guide you to the right mentors. But honestly that’s all something you should worry about once you start structure function at the earliest.

Again, I will re-iterate the same advice I stated above but in a slightly different way. Know that coming to UMKC does not guarantee you getting into a competitive speciality. For instance, if you see Baylor’s match list this year, they have 11 people match urology, 11 people match ophthalmology, 6 people match dermatology, 6 people match ENT, 13 people match orthopedics vs. UMKC’s 1, 2, 1, 2, and 7 respectively. I just want to show you this reality. Arguably, it is in some ways “easier” to match competitive specialities at upper tier institutions. I mean sure, those students still have to have good board scores, research, extracurriculars etc, but for them A. not only is research and big name mentors easier to find but B. they also have a well known medical school pedigree stamped on their application that admit it or not does make a difference. People can sit here and argue all day, but you have to admit if you were an admissions officer and you had two identical applications in front of you both with stellar personalities with the only difference being their school, the end of the day a well known school will beat out UMKC, it just does. Are there rare instances where that’s an exception, yes of course. Look at the girl who match Wash U plastic surgery this year. Again, its not that you won’t find those exact resources here at UMKC or find mentor who can connect you with those resources that upper tier medical students have access to, just remember that you are going to have to look harder.

4212

I think that card goes out to everyone, just as a courtesy, but I got it as well.

4213

@blugrn6, oops, yes! I forgot Radiation Oncology, those were the people who definitely had to do a research year in bc there is no Radiation Oncology department or residency program at UMKC. There are currently 88 Radiation Oncology residency programs so potentially you have the chance to get 88 interviews (no one gets that many): https://services.aamc.org/eras/erasstats/par/index.cfm

The ones who I knew did it in Ophtho felt the dept. wasn’t as mentoring to them, and they weren’t AOA either, unlike the ones on the match list so rather than take the chance they did the year and matched.

4214

Realize also that the student who matched into Integrated Plastics, she also likely ranked categorical General Surgery programs as it is also a subspecialty fellowship after General Surgery. So in that specialty, you potentially get 2 stabs at the prize. If you look up her name on Pubmed, she also had a Plastics publication with the Plastics department in the place where she matched. So if she rotated and published with them she was a well-known entity, increasing her chances of matching.

The one who went for Neurosurgery had 2 Neurosurgery publications if you look her up in Pubmed. UMKC doesn’t have a Neurosurgery department although UMKC does have a neurosurgeon, Dr. Gianino who is a UMKC grad.

If it’s one thing about UMKC that can be utterly frustrating (there are other things also), it’s that it’s very difficult when it comes to trying to find good innovative research (especially if specialty is competitive), finding good mentors in the field you want that actually have networking and connections at other programs. You have to be very (if not ridiculously) proactive and sometimes it’s just sheer luck to get that opportunity just to do that research. It’s not suprising at all that Baylor’s match list is so good bc their reputation and research power is so much greater than UMKC’s, vs. on our list, the all those who matched into ENT/Ophtho were AOA → that’s not at all coincidence. For Derm last year, that person was AOA → also not a coincidence either.

And contrary to what some people may think, KUMC (Kansas University Medical Center) does not view UMKC students as home students, we’re visiting students just like everyone else.

@blugrn6, I’ve heard there is (finally) now a Career Advising Office for students, is that helpful to students in your estimation? http://med.umkc.edu/sa/residency_match/

4215

@bluegrn6, I think it’s well established by now in this thread, that in the Human Structure Function course, that students do not dissect cadavers themselves throughout the course to learn Anatomy, which it seems like the reasoning is based on more of a UMKC “tradition”. Do students view prosected cadavers instead,to learn Anatomy, like as it is being dissected by the anatomist or something?

Have students complained in the past about this in Structure Function? I know there are Anatomy dissection electives, but I am sure not everyone is allowed to take it. The reason I ask is that I’m a very visual learner, so it kind of really irks me that I wouldn’t be able to dissect to learn the Anatomy, since that’s the way all other medical students across the country do it.

4216

If anyone was interested, these are all the Internal Medicine matches from UMKC this year (2015). I didn’t count the preliminary years because they’re going into a different residency after internship. The last four (**) are Medicine-Pediatrics combined residencies.

Saint Mary’s Medical Center – San Francisco, CA
Baylor College of Medicine – Houston, TX
University of Minnesota Medical School – Minneapolis, MN
University Hospitals – University of Missouri-Columbia – Columbia, MO
Saint Louis University – St. Louis, MO
U.S. Air Force – San Antonio Military Medical Center – Fort Sam Houston, TX
University of South Florida College of Medicine – Tampa, FL
University of Missouri-Kansas City SOM
Rhode Island Hospital – Brown University – Providence, RI
Presence Saint Francis Hospital – Evanston, IL
MetroHealth Medical Center – Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine – Cleveland, OH
Creighton University Affiliated Hospitals – Omaha, NE
U.S. Air Force – San Antonio Military Medical Center – Fort Sam Houston, TX
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education – Jacksonville, FL
Emory University School of Medicine – Atlanta, GA
Baylor College of Medicine – Houston, TX
University of California-San Diego Medical Center – San Diego, CA
UPMC Presbyterian Shadyside Hospital – Pittsburgh, PA
University of Texas Medical School – Houston, TX
University of Kentucky Medical Center – Lexington, KY
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education – Scottsdale, AZ
University of South Florida College of Medicine – Tampa, FL
University of Massachusetts Medical School – Worcester, MA
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education – Jacksonville, FL
West Virginia University School of Medicine – Morgantown, WV
Indiana University School of Medicine – Indianapolis, IN
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School – Dallas, TX
Creighton University Affiliated Hospitals – Omaha, NE
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education – Rochester, MN
Cedars-Sinai Medical Center – Los Angeles, CA
Creighton University Affiliated Hospitals – Omaha, NE
*University of Kansas School of Medicine – Wichita, KS
*University of Minnesota Medical School – Minneapolis, MN
*University of Missouri-Kansas City SOM
*University of Missouri-Kansas City SOM

4217

You can actually see rankings of Internal Medicine residency programs here: https://www.doximity.com/residency_navigator/programs#residency_specialty_id=39

Compared to prior match lists, the Internal Medicine match list this year is actually a little weaker. This year, Internal Medicine I believe was much more competitive, as due to healthcare reform, students are shying away from specialties like Radiology - which actually had a lot of unfilled spots in this year’s match. There are some solid/strong middle-tier IM programs - Baylor College of Medicine, Emory, UT-Southwestern, for example. Some middle-tier but still good to ok programs - USF, Indiana, UCSD, Brown, Minnesota, SLU, Kentucky, Creighton, etc. The rest are community programs, except the military match, although Cedars-Sinai is a cush hospital where people usually get the fellowship matches they want.

The best program there is actually Mayo at Rochester (Mayo-Jax and Mayo-Scottsdale are actually more community programs even though they have the Mayo name).

The UPMC match at Shadyside (http://www.residency.dom.pitt.edu/Shadyside/residents.html) is NOT the UPMC Montefiore/Presbyterian program that is the more highly ranked IM program (http://www.residency.dom.pitt.edu/current-residents.html), which is why the former has more DO grads/IMG grads.

The Case Western program is not the more highly ranked university program of University Hospitals Case Medical Center as Case Metrohealth is more of a community type program affiliated with the medical school.

I’m really surprised that no one going for IM matched into Wash U, as there is usually one person who is top of the class, AOA who goes for IM and gets Wash U.

4218

I would keep this clearly in mind if any of you decide to come to UMKC. In specialties like Dermatology, Ophthalmology, Otolaryngology (ENT), Urology, Neurological Surgery, Plastic Surgery, Radiation Oncology, etc. UMKC is going to have like 1-2 people maximum match into each of those specialties, if at all, in a given match list year on average. There is just no way you’re going to get, with the example used above, Baylor College of Medicine (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/baylor-college-of-medicine-04110) caliber numbers where you have 11 people matching into Ophtho, 6 people matching into Derm, 6 people matching into ENT, etc. Baylor’s medical school has a larger class size, is more prestigious, has a better reputation, has better connected and even famous faculty, has a better research infrastructure on site - where students can participate in research in their field at their home residency for 4 years, etc. Because of this, getting into AOA or being at the very top of the class is not as imperative coming from Baylor as it would be coming from UMKC.

If you’re paying regional or out-of-state tuition, you’ll have to temper your expectations greatly with regards to the resources and faculty that you think will be available to you. I recommend for those fields above that aren’t at UMKC to meet with faculty at KUMC on the Kansas City, KS side (since KC is split into a MO side and a KS side) to look for guidance.

At least at UMKC, you can decide later to take a 1 year leave of absence to do research and still be under the 8 year mark, but realize there are certain downsides to this (1 year more interest on loans, expenses with moving your apartment stuff to storage, etc.): http://www.medschoolinsight.com/med-school-adventures/2013/11/14/taking-a-year-off-from-med-school/. Whether graduating in 7 years with no MCAT is just as palatable, will be up to you to decide.

4219

@Roentgen, You have been giving such great insight into this whole program and helping us do the right thing. Thank you! Couple questions…

  1. Do you think students who can get into the 6 yr program can get into a medical school of that stature (tier) if they go through the traditional route. Did you feel that way anytime when you are at UMKC or later?
  2. At this point, I’m pretty open to the specialty I would like do my residency in… although I’m leaning to Emergency Medicine or Surgery or Neurology or Oncology/Cardiology now… Can you comment on these specialties?
  3. Were students happy with their residency choices and the hospitals they matched, OR were more like I would had a better chance, had I gone to other medical schools
  4. For me, it is really the guarantee and not having to take the MCAT is what is really appealing about UMKC. But, would it be of any use if I cannot get into a good residency program (specialty+hospital).
  5. If you plan to do a sub-speciality, like Cardiology, does where you do Internal Medicine matter?
  6. One thing that confuses me is why would students fore go ivy league school admission for UMKC with its limited opportunities. If they are truly capable of getting admission into ivies, they should be able to get into medical school later also ( maybe, the cost and time of accelerated program vs. traditional route ?)
4220

@pleasant,

  1. I think it depends on the person. In a particular 6-year medical school class, you'll have people of different academic backgrounds (i.e. different caliber high schools), different innate intelligence, different determination & internal drives, different work ethic, different ability to time manage and juggle tasks, etc. so there will definitely be a certain segment of the class who would have truly been successful no matter where they went to school - they're able to create opportunities for themselves regardless of the real obstructions -- i.e. creating interest groups or service organizations, finding research when most after a certain point would just give up, etc. There are those in the middle who if given the right push or built-in incentives can do well but won't necessarily be 100% self-starters but are hard workers, and there will also be people who without the 6 year program would normally not have been able to make it through the traditional route. I think the 6 year program helps that last group the most in terms of achieving their goal. I think those in the middle and at the top can be hit or miss in terms of if they personally feel they could have gotten into a better med school. Honestly, yes, by the end of 6 years, I personally did feel that I had largely overblown the premed application process way out of proportion and that I would have gotten into a higher ranked/higher reputation medical school. It ended up fine for me, obviously, in terms of getting into Anesthesiology and then subspecializing, but for others it might not be as clear cut. Most traditionals will say that those who are able to get into accelerated programs, are usually dedicated and hardworking enough to get in the normal route as well.I think part of the reason so many families continue to have each of their offspring go thru the program is bc it's such a well known entity to them. You have siblings that can give tips to younger siblings on how to effectively navigate through the program and not repeat mistakes they did. Not to mention the 6 year aspect, in which a research deficiency can be mitigated somewhat by taking a year off, if necessary.
  2. In terms of Emergency Medicine/General Surgery, you should be fine coming from UMKC. As far as Oncology/Cardiology, those are fellowships after Internal Medicine - I think UMKC prepares (if not overprepares) students for Internal Medicine and your residency performance will mainly determine whether you get a Cards or Onc fellowship. UMKC currently does not have a Neurology residency, but I've heard they finally got a department now, and will be starting a residency soon. That being said UMKC graduates have never had problems getting Neurology residencies in the past as Neurology is not a "competitive" specialty.
  3. I think this varies and there are people of both camps. I think this can vary based on whether you end up matched/unmatched on Match Day, what specialty you're going for (the match is way different in each specialty in terms of ability to garner interviews and what residency directors are looking for in that field). A lot of happiness on Match Day depends on how much you calibrate your expectations. For example, if you get into an Ophthalmalogy spot, you probably shouldn't be too picky about where on your rank list you fell - bc it's that competitive. There may be some slightly hurt feelings, but in the end you are an Ophthalmalogist. For Internal Medicine, it is slightly different bc the caliber of your Internal Medicine program can affect the ability of you to subspecialize (matching into a community program vs. a university program). But I would understand someone who felt that with their same academic record/board scores at another school, they would have had much better chances at a better program or more interviews from another place. @UMKCRoos mentioned several people in his/her class who failed to match Derm who were top of the class AOA candidates with research, so I would understand their frustration when people from other med schools who have Derm programs were able to match.
  4. That's hard to answer since a lot of your ability to match is based on your academic record, CV, research and board scores. Yes, you skip the MCAT, but the USMLE Step 1 is harder (mainly due to volume of information) and for some it might be a good preparation for standardized exams. I think personally u should take the MCAT part out as a benefit, unless you feel in some way there is no way you would be able to make it into med school otherwise, which is usually not the case.
  5. If you do Internal Medicine and want to do Cardiology, you want to be at a place that has a Cardiology fellowship available in-house. If you go to a better ranked Internal Medicine program, when it comes to fellowship application, you have a lot more leverage, when it comes to placing in fellowships across the nation. That being said, you can only match into one fellowship spot, so the major key is to have the fellowship you want available at the place you have residency so you can again get involved in research, get to know faculty, etc.
  6. I wouldn't say most people who get into UMKC's 6 year program would be eligible for Ivy League undergraduate admission. They may get into very good private and state flagship schools, but probably not in the Ivy League. I think people who were the very top of the medical school class/AOA were people who probably would have gotten into Ivys if they had applied to them. Not everyone applies to Ivys because depending on the state, there are some stellar universities out there that can get you to the med school you want to go to, if that's the endpoint. I also do still believe that the 6 year aspect is a huge motivator for 18 year olds who are so quick to want to grow up and speed things up, which can be a good or bad thing. I think that sometimes family pressure or an unreasonable/off-base view of the premed application process contributes to people doing the program who normally would not do so.