UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

@AtticusFinchh, That’s great! Yeah, the turnaround time on getting an acceptance from the general university tends to be actually quite quick, since most people considering applying for the BA/MD program tend to be pretty good in terms of academics - whether that’s GPA, class rank, and/or ACT/SAT score and UMKC doesn’t demand too high in those areas for their undergraduate students.

Once that is done, your SAT/ACT score report and your high school transcript are then forwarded from the main university to the medical school who will then continue looking at your application. The medical school already has what you put down on the BA/MD suppplemental application (which is completely separate from the main university application), they also already have your reference forms filled out online since those are now sent by email to whoever you asked to fill one out on you.

According to the admissions website, if you submitted by the Early Deadline Date, you will hear whether or not you got an interview in December (all interviews are in February this year) for the BA/MD program, and you’ll receive that notice electronically thru email.

@Roentgen – Thanks for clarifying that. December can’t come fast enough!!! I’m just glad that I’m in the early pool so I’ll have a slightly better chance of getting an interview spot than a couple friends who are applying regular!

hi, @Roentgen , i have been following this thread for a long time. Thanks so much for your help to this topic! my daughter is at 9th grade now, and we are thinking of letting her try this program. but my biggest concern is the limited specialty opportunities as you talked about earlier. has that improved in recent years?

Hey @laochou, thanks for following the thread and starting this process early as a parent. Congrats to your daughter for starting high school. It can be a major transition from middle school, so good luck to her!

So I think your concern is a valid one, and is not something that is looked at often enough by high school students and their parents, when it comes to applying to and choosing among various Bachelor/MD program acceptances. Part of the compromise you’re making by doing a Bachelor/MD program is committing to that specific medical school early on, without always having all the facts, info, strengths/weaknesses, at your fingertips, but I guess that’s what College Confidential is for![ul]
[]You can see prior UMKC residency match lists from 2003-2014 here from @UMKCRoosMD for yourself: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/17808190#Comment_17808190
[
]You can see the 2015 match list here: http://med.umkc.edu/sa/match-day-2015/
[]You can see my analysis of the 2015 match list here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18245792/#Comment_18245792
[
]You can see @UMKCRoosMD’s analysis of the 2015 match list here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18254031/#Comment_18254031[/ul]
I always paste this when it comes to students asking questions about medical schools: http://arts-sciences.und.edu/pre-health/_files/docs/thirty-five-questions.pdf, the questions come from the American Assocation of Medical Colleges (AAMC) when it comes to finding out information about a school that would be relevant to you as a student.

So to answer your question, I think the UMKC match lists have improved somewhat when it comes to match lists over the years (BUT realize at baseline, ALL med schools will improve in various ways, the question is what were they starting at to begin with [hard to know as an applicant], by how much it changed, and in what areas were those changes in). It’s kind of like if you were to look at dollar amounts of a salary. For any job, salaries are higher now than they were 10-15 years ago, but that doesn’t mean more earning power, because inflation now is also higher.

But I really do believe the UMKC match lists are more a function of the type of students coming in these days, than the actual medical school being any better necessarily. For example, when I entered the program it was 90% in-state, 10% out-of-state, as it had always been. It has now changed to 65% in-state; 35% (regional + out-of-state). The school also takes more MD-only students (who replace any BA/MDers who left due to attrition) who are now allowed to be from outside of Missouri. These demographic changes alone will change match lists a lot, due to a larger segment of the class being outside of the state of Missouri and paying higher tuition, so the incentive in terms of specialties medical students will try to aim for will change. For example, you might have more people who are willing to take a year off to do research in their field somewhere else to try to match when they come back for their last year.

That being said, I don’t think objectively overall, on average, the proportions have hugely changed when it comes to a greater percentage of the class matching into the more competitive specialties from UMKC. If you look at the numbers, most of the class still tends to match for an initial primary care-type residency (Internal Med, Pediatrics, and Family Med), although with IM and Peds, that person can, and probably will, choose to subspecialize and not do primary care. At UMKC, you just won’t see large numbers of the class matching into fields like Derm, Ophtho, Rad Onc, ENT, etc. for several reasons. Even in the less competitive specialties (on average) that we do get students matching into, the institutions tend to range from strong middle-tier to low-tier, and with more success in the Midwest – there will always be notable exceptions of course (which can usually be correlated with factors like getting into AOA, knocking the socks off faculty during an audition rotation, etc.)

UMKC really only has 2 competitive specialties on site in terms of departments and residency programs – Ophthalmology and Orthopedic Surgery. That’s it. So, if you’re considering or aiming more for a specialty like Dermatology, Integrated Plastic Surgery, Radiation Oncology, Neurosurgery, ENT, or Urology, for example, coming out of UMKC, you’ll have a harder time, even with the best of grades and board scores, since UMKC, itself, doesn’t have residency departmental faculty in those fields to guide you, to mentor you, and to network with during your 6 years.

You’re much more dependent on players outside of the system – doing 1 month audition rotations, or like maybe going to KU Med (which is NOT affiliated with UMKC) faculty for guidance, where you will still be considered to be a visiting student, as they have their own home med students on site interested in their specialties. Does it mean it is downright impossible to match in the above fields coming from UMKC? Obviously not, if you look at the match lists. But your journey will be that much harder when it comes to finding actual opportunities to increase your chances in matching into those fields, whether that is getting involved in specialty-specific research to try to get a publication, taking part in shadowing opportunities, or specialty-specific extracurricular activities.

I hope that answers your great question, let me know if I haven’t or there is a point of confusion.

Off topic, but congratulations to the Kansas City Royals!

For those people, messaging me about the breakdown of in-state, regional, and out-of-state slots, you can see here, from this year’s (2015-2016) Year 1 class on the front of the UMKC Med webpage, in terms of exact percentages: http://med.umkc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/pie_chart.png.

You can also see this from the BA/MD FAQ:

FYI:
Early Applicants also received this email yesterday:

"Dear #%^+^%,

Thank you for your application to the UMKC School of Medicine B.A./M.D. program. We are thrilled that you are interested in what UMKC has to offer, and that you have demonstrated the initiative to complete your application early in the admissions process.

Your application was complete by October 15, 2015 and is currently under review by the Council on Selection. Based on the complete application submitted, the Council on Selection will choose to offer you an interview, place you on the waitlist to interview or deny your admission to the School of Medicine. When making these decisions, the Council reviews your application individually and holistically and there is no one component of the application that will guarantee your selection for an interview.

The Council on Selection intends to make decisions for those students who were complete by October 15, 2015 by the end of December. If offered an interview, you will be notified of that decision electronically. If you are placed on the waitlist to interview or denied admission to the School of Medicine, those decisions will also be communicated electronically. All decisions of the Council on Selection are final.

We will not communicate any decisions over the phone and we will notify you of the decision as soon as possible. We appreciate your patience as we review applications, make decisions and notify you of the decision of the Council on Selection. If you have any questions about the B.A./M.D. program, please do not hesitate to contact the School of Medicine Office of Admissions at 816-235-1870 or medicine@umkc.edu. Again, we thank you for applying to the School of Medicine and we look forward to reviewing your application.

Sincerely,

UMKC School of Medicine Office of Admissions"

Just thought I’d share.

Thanks, @AtticusFinchh, for posting the communication from admissions. So I guess those who got it in by the Early Notification deadline will find out anywhere from the beginning of December till possibly the end of December by email.

So to let people know, the BA/MD admissions website currently doesn’t have the tuition and fees updated showing this year’s tuition rates for 2015-2016, but according to this: https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/report.cfm?select_control=PUB&year_of_study=2016. This would be the tuition rate for each year for Years 3-6 (the last 4 years of the program), which will also go up slightly each year.

2015-2016
Resident Tuition & Fees: $31,463 (+316)
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees: $61,052 (+609)

2014-2015
Resident Tuition & Fees: $31,147
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees: $60,443

Regional tuition (which is not reported on the AAMC website) would be halfway in-between resident (in-state) and non-resident (out-of-state) tuition.

For Years 1-2,

2015-2016
calculated from the Cashier’s website: http://www.umkc.edu/finadmin/cashiers/school-of-medicine-tuition-fee-rates.asp

Year 1 (Fall/Spring)
Resident Tuition & Fees: $10,227.88 + $10,227.88 = **$20,455.76/b
Regional Tuition & Fees: $14,988.92 + $14,988.92 = **$29,977.84/b
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees: $19,749.96 + $19,749.96 = **$39,499.92/b

Year 2 (Summer/Fall/Spring)
Resident Tuition & Fees: $5,114.05 + $10,227.88 + $10,227.88 = **$25,569.81/b
Regional Tuition & Fees: $7,494.53 + $14,988.92 + $14,988.92 = **37,472.37/b
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees: $9,875.01 + $19,749.96 + $19,749.96 = **$49,374.93/b

2014-2015
from the BA/MD admissions website as of today: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/finance/

Year 1 (Fall/Spring)
Resident Tuition & Fees = $20,294
Regional Tuition & Fees = $29,740
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees = $39,186

Year 2 (Summer/Fall/Spring)
Resident Tuition & Fees = $25,333
Regional Tuition & Fees = $37,141
Non-Resident Tuition & Fees = $48,950

Total Tuition & Fees Only for Years 1-6

2015-2016
Resident = 171,877.57
Regional = 252,480.21
Non-Resident = 333,082.85

Doesn’t include Room & Board or Books & Supplies

@Roentgen Wow, as a teenager, that feel like A LOT. However, I know that doctors do earn quite a bit so I guess I shouldn’t really be concerned as an in-stater ,right?

@AtticusFinchh, you have to realize that the reason doctors salaries are what they are, is due to several factors 1) supply and demand — # of medical school slots and then the # of residency slots since you have to complete some type of residency to practice medicine in the United States, and 2) the amount of large student loan debt that medical students take on + the accruing interest. And this is after college, medical school, and unlike many other healthcare professions – 3-7 years of residency (I’ll assure you, you pretty much will not be able to make any loan payments while working during residency, as it will be pretty hard to do so on such a low salary when you’ll have many other expenses, paying taxes, etc.), and 3) reimbursement rates by Medicare, Medicaid, private insurance, etc. — when these go down, doctors usually have to see more patients – that’s why you have outpatients primary care doctors who have to see patients for 10-15 minutes only before quickly moving on to another patient.

Honestly, I think even for in-state BA/MDers (remember, in theory, they’ve paid taxes for decades to support their state public universities), their level of debt for tuition and fees of $172 K is still quite a bit expensive. If you go to other states and see their medical school in-state tuitions, you’ll see that their tuition and fees are MUCH lower and better supported by the state. Realize even at the Year 1-2 level, you’re paying the School of Medicine tuition rate, not the undergraduate tuition rate.

You can go here, and see where UMKC’s tuition falls compared to other schools, that @PinkPrincess had posted from last year’s numbers: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18273605#Comment_18273605 (You can see the link she made for “UMKC - Public Med Schools - Arranged by In-State Tuition”, just follow the directions on there as it looks like College Confidential changes part of the link which you then have to change back).

Now with the ACA, the reimbursement for healthcare services will go even lower (away from fee-for-service, more ACA exchange insurance plans that reimburse hospitals and doctors poorly for services rendered, etc.). So no, it’s not as simple to just say, doctors will always earn a lot, so that’s not a problem for the huge debt I will undertake, since there are so many factors that go into a doc’s salary, not to mention, there can be a large salary difference between specialties.

I always tell students and their families to hire a financial analyst (they do this type of stuff for a living – they’re not expensive, esp. as it won’t take long for your specific calculation) so you can see all the calculations, logistics, and how long it will take you to pay off that debt. They can tell you how much debt you’ll end with when you graduate, how long it will take you to pay it off and even account for other factors in your financial plan — marriage, children, buying a house, etc. If you enter certain loan forgiveness programs, they’ll be able to calculate that in there as well.

@Roentgen Okay, yes, all that information you just game me is very valuable. I appreciate it. I will definitely give it more thought (but still interested in UMKC though). I was just referencing the current students I saw and met with that talked with me when I was on the campus tours as I asked them the same question about the high rates (and they responded “hey, you’ll earn a lot when you’re a doctor…”); I did know about the large differences on salaries in different specialities and even the location of you job…anyway, now I know better. Thanks!

@atticusfinchh,

Yeah, in general, when it comes to the actual financial realities of this program, I would say informally talking with your typical UMKC BA/MD student (especially a Year 1 or Year 2 student), who on average these days tends to be very privileged financially to begin with (i.e. one or both parents as physicians who are able to pay for their entire tuition bill in cash on hand, etc.) compared to your average college student, is probably not the right way to go about being knowledgeable and making your own financial decisions on this particular issue. This is especially the case, as you don’t get huge amounts of merit scholarship/grant aid from the university itself as a 6 year BA/MD student.

I’m actually not at all surprised at the response you got from some students as they are relatively insulated (at least temporarily) from paying back loans, as they progress thru school, while debt and interest is accruing (assuming they don’t have parents who can fork over that level of cash on hand). Also it’s probably difficult to go into great detail on a relatively brief campus tour with potential applicants.

It helps to go to financial experts who actually know what they are talking about (unlike med students) so you can have useful information to work with. I always say Knowledge is Power, and in this case, it really does help to have an overview, not just a “you’ll earn a lot when you’re a doctor” line – since it will be a long time before you even get to that point, in the meantime. They can go thru different life scenarios in terms of life circumstances, or different specialty salaries to give you a better financial picture.

Student loan debt is very serious. Not to scare you, but student loan debt is one of the few debts that is non-dischargeable thru bankruptcy. It doesn’t disappear. It stays with you, regardless of whether you complete your degree or do a residency or not. All the more reason to have a realistic picture of what you are committing to both as a life-long career and financially.

@Blugrn6, @Roentgen

Does the student body at UMKC and its medical school, get along in terms of racial differences? How prevalent is racism and prejudice there, and how diverse is it? Do minorities feel isolated? With Mizzou making national headline news this past week, I was just wondering whether UMKC is similar, since it’s under the same system, or is it different being in Kansas City, Missouri vs. Columbia, Missouri?

@MedNerd260

I can’t speak for the whole UMKC campus because

  1. I’m so far removed from it that I don’t really know what goes on at main campus anymore
  2. Honestly as 6 year students, you are really just isolated into your own little group, with very little exposure to the students on main campus as a whole. You will have some class here and there with the main campus and other students, but again that’s only for the first year and a half and after that you move to Hospital Hill where you are with all med students.

Now in terms of diversity in the med school classes…I think there is a great deal of diversity and most if not all medical students are very cognizant of other cultures and even open to exploring different cultures. We all watch movies in different languages, we try different cuisines, we are pretty open to things.
If you are imagining outright racism like name calling, discrimination, hate crimes, etc there is definitely NONE of that in the med school classes and none that I’m aware of on main campus.
There is even a diversity council at the medical school and they are very supportive if you ever feel like you are at an disadvantage because of being different.

Overall, the reason why UMKC is not as severe in some ways as Mizzou, and you will see this when you come here is because UMKC is a commuter school for the most part. There is also a large subset of students at the undergraduate campus that are much older now, middle aged, who are now coming back to school to get a new degree. Its more of a community college feel than it is state school feel. Most of the students on the undergraduate campus travel from home and the only students that are living in the dorms are the students from professional schools and some that come from out of town but still from Missouri. I mean, UMKC still only has like three housing buildings for students who stay on campus. Mizzou is a little different because their student body as a whole is much bigger, their campus is much bigger, and they get students coming from all over the state and some from even out of state just to do their undergrad. Usually students don’t come from out of state (suburbs of Kansas that are part of KC metro don’t count) just to do their undergrad at UMKC.

I don’t think that diversity and discrimination should be a concern coming in at UMKC. Plus there are so many Indian people in your class, you will never feel isolated as an minority, trust me.

I hope that helps!

@MedNerd260
Yes, I’ve been on multiple campus tours and know many of the students in the 6 yr program personally. When I was with them I felt like there were more “minor” people combined than Caucasians (considering them the overall majority in most cases). Especially when I saw a whole group walk out of class and without even trying to look at people in such a way, it was naturally apparent that there are quite a bit of races/cultures represented.

@medkid260,

So the entire University of Missouri System is encompassed by: UM-Columbia (known as Mizzou), UMKC (Kansas City), UMSL (St. Louis), and Missouri S&T (used to be called UM-Rolla). The main public flagship university for the state is Mizzou, and the UM President who resigned recently was president of that entire system, while the Chancellor who will resign by the end of this year was for Mizzou only. I would say Kansas City is quite different from Columbia. Columbia is much more like a college town, and much different than KC or St. Louis, which are the closest you will get to actual cities in Missouri. Kansas City is about 125 miles, or 2 hours away, from Columbia.

As @blugrn6 mentioned, I don’t think there were blatant acts of racism that occured even when I was there, whether at the Volker campus or at the medical school. I don’t know of any incidences to where, for example, a student is walking on campus, and another student shouts the N-word at them. Or to where, for example, Asian students are badgered and harassed, due to their race. See @blugrn6’s third paragraph that talks about UMKC being a commuter school, I really can’t say it much better than that. Undergrads at UMKC usually go to class, do when they need to do, maybe stay on campus to study or finish up work, and then they drive home to their off-campus residence. UMKC is not going to be like your typical public state flagship schools: UCLA, LSU, UC-Berkeley, University of Texas at Austin, University of Michigan, Ohio State, etc. where everyone is always in constant contact, since the majority of the student body lives in dorms on campus. UMKC does not even have enough dorms for every single undergrad to live on campus, even if they wanted to, for that to be an option. As a Year 1 BA/MD student though, you are REQUIRED to live in the dorms the first year, even if your parents live locally.

I have never had a problem in terms of being respected by fellow UMKC undergraduate students. There are some really nice UMKC undergrad students. I also liked many of the older adult undergrad students who come back and takes classes which you might see in some of your Arts & Sciences classes who contribute and were reliable.

As a 6 year BA/MD student, you will have very little total interaction with the undergraduate segment of the university – except when you’re living in the dorms in Year 1, and in undergraduate science & non-science courses, and in your Year 4 campus semester (although you’ll be much more concentrating on studying for your boards at this point if your campus is in the Fall or Spring). That undergrad interaction will probably be increased somewhat if you were to join one of the fraternities or sororities on campus (positives and negatives to doing this, like anything in life). But as @blugrn6 mentioned, most of your interaction thru the 6 years will only be with other 6 year BA/MD students (and any MD-only students who enter in Year 2 Spring to make up for attrition), for better or for worse.

So with that being said, are there students in the BA/MD program who are racist? Generally not. Back when it was 90% in-state, and 10% out-of-state, there were quite a few in-staters from very rural areas (not many, most are from around KC and around St. Louis), who had never even had an Asian person in their HS class or even living in their town. Hard to believe, I know. Were they racist? No. Part of what everyone realizes is that when you go to college, you are going to meet new people, so I think that helps, as well as being with the same people for 6 years. Also, it’s well known in this program, and according to one article, that about 40% or greater of the BA/MD class ends up being Asian: http://kcur.org/post/med-school-express.

Now in a particular UMKC BA/MD class, do students tend to form cliques? Yes. Is it always based on race? Not necessarily. Often times, it’s knowing someone very well or being roommates in Year 1 at the dorms, being on the same docent team, being “Greek” (lol) or having rushed in the same fraternity/sorority, being of the same race, or being of a relatively similar socioeconomic status (of which UMKC’s BA/MDers tend to be more towards the top on average), having the same interests outside of school-related academics, etc. People tend to freely associate with people they are similar to, feel like they would have something in common with, or feel comfortable with. That’s more just our inherent reflexive biases, than racial animus at work. Also added onto all of this, realize these are high school graduates we’re talking about, who surprise surprise (lol), will still act like people from high school. This will definitely change, however, also as you progress thru the six years and get to know others within your class. Is it going to be any different if you went somewhere else? I really don’t know, since I never did a traditional 4 year undergrad, but you’ll see the same contributors in the real world as well.

As to your isolation question, I could actually very much understand if someone who is Black and/or Latino at UMKC would feel culturally isolated as they make up only 12% and 6% of the total student population respectively at UMKC – and that’s for the ENTIRE university, so the actual percentages specifically for the BA/MD program for Black and Latino will actually be much smaller. But yes, UMKC (as an entire university) is overwhelmingly white (caucasian) – but that’s really a lot of the Midwest/Bible Belt, save for few select urban areas. The best way I think I’ve heard it described from people not from Missouri or the Midwest is that it’s a definite culture shock for them, especially if they’ve come from a much more diverse city and/or high school: http://priceonomics.com/the-most-and-least-diverse-cities-in-america/ (KC is #28). Needless to say KC, and thus by default UMKC, is just not going to have the demographics that the Top 10 most populated cities in the United States have: http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0763098.html

TL;DR I would not use the news coverage of what happened at Mizzou to solely guide your decision as to whether or not to attend UMKC, as they are very different campuses in many respects.

Just some stats for you to look at @MedNerd260, from census data and college websites, to compare:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/29/2938000.html

Kansas City:

Population: 470,800
White - 59.2%
Black - 29.9%
Asian - 2.5%
Latino - 10.0%

Columbia:

Population: 108,835
White - 79.0%
Black - 11.3%
Asian - 5.2%

Latino - 3.4%

UMKC - http://www.umkc.edu/facts/

Total: 16,160 students
White - 60%
Black - 12%
Asian - 7%
Latino - 6%

Mizzou - https://diversity.missouri.edu/about/stats/

Total: 35,441 students
White - 77%
Black - 7%
Asian - 2%

Latino - 3%

Just as a comparison to other public state flagship universities:

UCLA - https://www.admissions.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm
White - 27.1%
Black - 4.0%
Asian - 33.5%
Latino - 19.1%

University of Texas at Austin - http://admissions.utexas.edu/explore/freshman-profile
White - 45%
Black - 4%
Asian - 23%
Hispanic - 21%

Ohio State - https://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php
White - 82.66%
Black - 5.33%
Asian - 5.73%
Latino - 3.51%

Does UMKC just email you the decision for the interview? I’m honestly getting really stressed that I won’t get an interview this December