UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
5661

Thanks so much for your detailed and thoughtful responses.
I do get the part about them wanting the student to call, not the parent. However, let’s keep in mind that some of these kids are 17 years old like my daughter. They are not a legal adult. They are a dependent child. They don’t have the life experience and smarts to know what to do/ask- besides my daughter was slammed with IB coursework and tests and knee deep in applications- there are only 24 hours in a day, and she still has to eat and sleep as well- I was just trying to take a little pressure off her already over packed schedule- and by no means am I a hovering parent.

The peer mentors in my opinion need to be more available and articulate and willing to help.

I’m still not clear of the year one schedule of vacations and time off. No one has an answer it seems. Why is there not a printed list of holidays- so that working families can plan time together? Is that too much to ask? I have no idea what the guy meant when he said there will be a test in 2 weeks, as well as no going home for Labor Day and no booking vacations with your family. Are our kids in jail and we are not allowed to have thanksgiving or Christmas with them? His entire speech was designed to intimidate- and I don’t appreciate that.

As far as the intensity of the program- I’d like to hear from students- their trials and challenges as well as successes. I’m not hearing any of that. Further, if you google this program, and get responses outside of college confidential, there are no positive responses at all. None.

5662

I am the parent of a daughter in the program. She is in the summer of what is the beginning of year 3, which means she is currently in HSF4. In response to the questions about vacation time specifically as @Roentgen has stated year 1 follows the regular school calendar. My daughter came home on Labor Day weekend and was off Thanksgiving week and had the full Christmas vacation (about 1 month) as well as spring break. At the end of year 1 they had a one week hospital experience class so that extended the spring semester by a week and then had to be back for the summer semester in early June and that ended late July. They started the fall semester with the rest of the school in mid August. In year 2 it changes a bit. The still got Thansgiving week off and Christmas vacation but they had to be back at Christmas earlier than the rest of the university(about a week earlier). They still had spring break off in the spring of year 2. They are in HSF in the spring of year 2 so the spring semester ended later for them (up until Memorial Day weekend) and then really a week off and they began the summer semester which wraps up the HSF class. It ends around the 20th of July and they start with the fall semester on 8/1. Hope this provides some clarity for you about time off during year 1 and 2.

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5663

@stlbos1, thank you!!! Glad to see things are about the same as when I had it. It looks like Hospital Team has changed a bit - now it’s 1 week instead of 2 weeks (the website still says 2 weeks). I think you meant for HSF I which starts Year 2 spring, that they had to be back around the beginning of January, instead of at Christmas? (At least I hope!) Thank you for that great listing to give Year 1s a general good idea in terms of stop & start dates up until the start of Year 3 fall.

5664

@zucchinicakes, I was referring to most high school seniors who usually have already turned 18 or will be turning 18 very soon, and I more meant now that school has ended for the year. You just said, “they don’t have the life experience and smarts to know what to do/ask”. That’s the point I’m getting at. Even if they don’t know what to ask/do (you can definitely help them with that part, that’s definitely not a problem), THEY should be the ones asking/doing and thus getting the comfortability that only naturally comes from doing it (there’s no other way to get that). It’s absolutely ok for them to make mistakes right now when things are so very low-stakes - and asking an ETC questions or emailing them about certain things that the student has to get accomplished, when there are questions, is pretty low-stakes. In fact, the ETCs fully expect students to come to them to ask these things (or they should) and it should be done without students feeling like are a botheration everytime they go to ask. I completely agree with you. That is what they are there for. And as you move up, a lot of things in terms of actual procedure have to start with the ETCs (i.e. petitioning for a summer campus, maybe a required SOM class is booked to capacity and a student has to have that class that particular semester in the program to promote, etc.). So this is very good practice. Another reason that the school doesn’t like it when parents call on behalf of students is that often (and this has definitely happened in the past), a parent doesn’t know the full story or maybe only gets half the story (I am not referring to you at all here), so the person at the other end doesn’t know how to approach it to solve the problem. The student is the one directly involved and knows the most about the situation or how it affects him/her. I’m not making a personal judgement call here as to which side is the right or wrong way of doing things. I’m just saying this is what students will naturally confront, and I would much rather have them be successful and know in what areas it’s actually ok to try things out and make mistakes and get comfortable doing, esp. since this is a group of very hard working, intelligent, high achieving students, in which often the vibe can be given (i.e. in grade school) that they’re supposed to be perfect, on point, with no mistakes, in everything they attempt.

Part of the reason I came up with that list of life skills in the Google Doc (although I’m getting good ideas on what to add that escaped me) that I made posted the link to previously in the thread, is because these are things that I observed either in myself or in other people in my class as to things that would have been good to know or be able to do that makes things easier being away from home for the first time and also later on in the program. It’s all from first-hand experience. None of those things were things that we had down cold coming right out of high school. Which is why I mention in the Google Doc for students to practice with their family while still relatively under supervision. And by supervision, I mean watchful eye, but not jumping in to do it for them, right when you notice them not doing something correctly, because we sometimes we actually learn best when we do something first, and then learn from it (ask any surgeon that has to practice suturing). It clicks a lot more. I’m not referring to you and your daughter specifically here, I’m talking about more in generality.

Hopefully the peer mentors will get involved more and will be more proactive in asking incoming students and their parents on the day of Orientation if they have any questions or concerns coming in, etc. Keep in mind these are still Year 2s so their total experience is still somewhat more limited. I don’t know if the Years 3-6 mentors are involved in any way on the Orientation days at all. I believe students have the Year 2 peer mentors’ emails as well which were given in the student application portal, I believe. You can see from the list of responsibilities here: http://med.umkc.edu/sa/peer-mentors/ - they do seem to have a pretty active role for the class of Year 1s below them, which might not be apparent just yet. If you look on the list in that link there is a Fall Orientation for students as well, so this is really just the beginning.

When I went to orientation (long time ago, I know, but still), I don’t remember the medical school specifically giving us a list of holidays during the summer orientation either when I was there, because those things are usually decided at the university level, not by a particular school within the university. We did however get things like a printed catalog, an academic school calendar/planner from the university (which had the list of school holidays already on it), more like university goodie type of stuff, etc. which should match the academic calendar link I pasted above and of course the syllabi given out that first week which will also list those things. See @stlbos1’s post above, which is pretty accurate to the way I had it as well. My guess is the physician speaking about Labor Day weekend, was speaking off-the-cuff (or maybe was just overly caffeinated from the coffee served that day, lol).

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@zuchinicakes,

So this is a plan that I think will work, since you had said in your original post that both your daughter and you were having major second thoughts (it’s perfectly ok and natural to feel this way by the way, we all got nervous before coming to UMKC, since it is quite different from what people may be used to coming from high school and from where many of our friends in our senior class were going. There isn’t one student and/or parents who aren’t nervous after committing to the program, and as it gets closer – orientation just reminds students/parents of school starting up).

Anyways, try it out for at least a semester, if not at least 1 year (meaning end of finals in May of Year 1 spring). In that time, your daughter can meet other “regular” undergraduate students on campus some of whom are premed, talk with older BA/MD students that she might meet with in medical school interest group organizations - http://med.umkc.edu/sa/student-organizations/, talk with people in the premed society on campus: https://roogroups.collegiatelink.net/organization/premed, maybe even some of the premed advising faculty in the College of Arts and Sciences on a more personal one-to-one basis. She can collect all the information, her own observations, and experiences of others that she needs to make a decision as to whether she really wants to do this particular route, at this particular undergrad/med school in Kansas City, or go thru the regular 4+4 route that most medical students do anyways (remember a Bachelor/MD is very much an alternative route, not THE route).

This is so that if she does make a conscious decision to do the regular route or even change her mind completely in terms of another profession in healthcare or outside of healthcare, there won’t be any lingering thoughts of “what if” or regrets if she were to drop out now, without even starting and feeling out the program some more. Hope that makes sense. Either way though, your daughter should go in with a completely open mind regardless (I’m sure she will) and do the necessary fact finding which is relatively simple to do.

All the graded Arts & Sciences/School of Biological Sciences courses in Year 1 from UMKC will transfer easily to any university with no problem: Gen Chemistry, Year 1 Anatomy, Year 1 Micro, Intro Soc, Intro Psych, History 101, etc. as freshmen all across the nation mainly do general ed requirements in college in the first year anyways. Universities take transfer students all the time (in fact in my time, it wasn’t uncommon for transfer admissions to even the more competitive universities to be easier, compared to regular admissions). In the traditional route, on the AMCAS application, you enter in all your undergraduate coursework attempted at whichever institutions, and grades to come up with a composite AMCAS GPA that puts it all together, so it doesn’t matter if she changes undergraduate universities since it happens to people all the time.

I hope that current BA/MD students come back to College Confidential to speak of their own personal experiences as well (and parents!)

5666

@stlbos1 thank you very much for your reponse. It helps clarify my concerns.
If you don’t mind answering- how has your daughter coped with the intense schedule and credit hours so far?

@Roentgen Thank you very much for your thoughtful reponses. I appreciate it very much. I agree with your thoughts completely.
I think everything will turn out for the best. Sometimes we get too anxious about things- it’s just been a stressful time with applications etc.

I’ll keep updating as time goes on- I hope it will help others who may also have concerns

5667

@zuchinicakes, I actually completely and totally understand the anxiety from students. And I understand now even more, as a new parent, the relative apprehension on the parental side, because when your child is unhappy/scared, feels stuck, or is miserable, one of the worst feelings you can have as a parent is not being able to offer a real or better solution or to solve it yourself. I still remember the college application process and how truly busy things are for high school students with 7 class periods (usually nearly all AP/Honors/IB at this point as seniors) meeting everyday (don’t know how I managed), school ECs, blah blah. Luckily in college, the amount of actual face-to-face “sitting in class” time is probably much less overall, when compared to high school. The class timings allow a much more controllable balance than I think high school allows, where students have to be in school a set number of hours a day as required by state law.

Most entering freshmen up until they start in the fall will have always lived with their parents in their home (unless maybe they went to a boarding type of school or something - so, in other words, not most of us). There is really nothing at home that can completely mimic living in a dormitory with roommates your Year 1, away from home, and unless things have drastically changed, all Year 1 BA/MD students’ roommates will be other BA/MD students, although even the normal undergrads are nice people as well. It’s different for parents also, who are used to having their kids come home everyday from school from grades Pre-K/K thru 12. So it’s definitely an adjustment for everyone involved. And just as an FYI, within a week or two, students do sometimes feel twinges of homesickness, but luckily Labor Day weekend is pretty close around the corner.

One thing you realize, as a freshman, is you see many of the things that your parents did and amenities you had, when you were growing up, were things you fully took for granted. On the plus side, I can almost guarantee you that when your child visits home, they will eat mom’s (or dad’s) homecooked meals without any complaints. lol. While students are the ones who actually go through the 6 year combined program, the honest, realistic truth is that in many ways, students bring their parents and families along for the ride (voluntarily or not). In a way, I hope at least to make the ride at least a little less bumpier (for both students and parents) both in the initial application process as well and for those in the program.

I don’t know whether they actually discussed this at the Orientation with parents (it may be discussed more at Fall Orientation for students so they can sign up), but there is this thing called “Western Missouri Friends” and “St. Louis Friends” where parents of BA/MD students can get together. I wish I knew more what they actually do (clearly I wasn’t paying much attention lol): http://med.umkc.edu/alumni-services/western-missouri-friends/. But they’re usually parents of current BA/MD students, if I remember correctly. So the parents of those in higher years, will probably be quite helpful to the parents of current Year 1s.

Definitely let us know how things go. I think it will be very useful for everyone - both students and parents, who are considering the program among several others or the normal college route. Luckily this discussion reminds me to update and add to my “observations, tips, and advice” and practicing “life skills” Google Docs for incoming Year 1s, that I posted earlier on in the thread. I’ll have it updated at least by the end of July 4th, with this 3 day weekend coming up.

5668

@Roentgen, thank you for your advice. I didn’t know if I’d be at some disadvantage in Anatomy that I’d have to make up for.

You had said in college that the amount of class time is probably less and that the class timings allow a more controllable balance. Can you explain this a little bit more? Did you feel like you had more free time?

5669

@GulabJamun,

I guess I should have been clearer. If you’ve taken some type of Human Anatomy course in high school, you will be at a little bit of advantage solely just based on prior exposure alone - it will just “click” more in your head when you hear it again. It’s just not something that gives you some type of huge long-term advantage especially once that fall semester is over and you move on to Baby Micro. So for those who haven’t had the class in high school, it can easily be overcome with going to class, keeping up with info, repetition, practicing and testing eachother off of the models in the SBS lab and at the med school media center, and then there is Supplemental Instruction (it’s called “S.I.” for short) sessions both thru the university and thru the med school. Even if you’ve taken it in high school, you’ll do these same things anyways. Just as a warning, that first week or two of Anatomy lab, won’t necessarily match right up 100% in-sync with what you just covered in lecture that week, so don’t freak out. It happens in most lab courses in college actually since the lab component is a separate course from the lecture component.

So in high school, it’s probably still the 7 class periods a day, starting a 8:30 AM, each one about 50 minutes? At UMKC, instead of having AP Chem meet for 50 minutes every single day from M to F, the class is scheduled MWF from 7:40 AM to 8:50 AM (3.5 hours a week which rounds up to 4 credit hours), or if you take Chem II in the fall, it’s scheduled TuTh 5:00 PM - 6:50 PM (3 hrs. 40 minutes a week, which rounds up to 4 credit hours). So what’s great is that since you don’t meet everyday, you actually have time to go thru the reading material on your own, get the HW done on the days you don’t meet for class, or things that have nothing to do with the class – getting chores and errands done, working out at Swinney Gym, etc. It’s not like high school where you’re required to be in school for a set amount of time, or where you’re all of sudden given maybe 20 problems for HW in a class period and it’s due tomorrow when you meet again - and you also have 6 other class periods which also have HW that is due tomorrow. Your first class may not even be until 10 AM certain days. So it’s a lot easier to achieve a good balance in college, when you have a lot more flexibility and time under your control.

5670

@zucchinicakes

My daughter has dealt with the heavy workload very well thus far. She says to those she knows that have an interest in the program that it is doable. She is a planner and stays on top of things to avoid panic or too much cramming. It moves fast but with dedication and effort it is not unreasonable. She did come in with a bunch of credit which helped the load in year 1 but others didn’t have as much and did fine. Obviously everyone is different but I wouldn’t stress too much. I am sure the fact your daughter is in the program means she is well prepared. Have her enjoy the rest of summer and that will put her in the best frame of mind to start in the fall. Best of luck to her!!

5671

Does anyone know if the class has filled up? My child is applying this upcoming cycle and I’m trying to get a sense of how fast the class fills up in the summer. Thank you.

5672

Hey @jessapen,

You can see here how it works in terms of people getting into the program off of the waitlist, which is a rolling period in 2 week increments: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19656464/#Comment_19656464. There was a mention by someone in the thread who got off the waitlist last year in the middle of June. The process is complete with a full Year 1 class usually by early to mid-July. When the whole process is completed with the entering Year 1 class being filled, an email is sent to anyone remaining on the wait list to let them know that the class is full and that no other offers will be made. Obviously the exact timeline will vary, since the number of people who decide to commit to UMKC’s program from each applicant pool (in-state, regional, out-of-state) by May 1 will be different from year to year.

5673

So, I guess I’ll post my CV as a negative example for upcoming seniors :-j

GPA: unweighted: 3.97 weighted: 4.242
Class Rank: 2 out of 485

ACT score: English: 30; Math: 35; Reading: 23; Science: 36 ; Composite: 31

AP’s:
Biology: 4
Chemistry: 5
Physics 1: 5
Physics 2: 5
Physics C Mech: 5
Physics C E&M: 5
Calc BC: 5 (AB sub: 5)
Statistics: 5
Micro Economics: 4
Macro Economics: 3
Human Geography: 5
US Government: 4
Psych: 5
Chinese: 5
English Lit: 1

of LORs/Reference forms submitted: 6

Applicant Pool: Regional
Gender: Male
Ethnicity: Asian

High School/College Activities and Leadership w/# of hours
School Orchestra: 1000+ hours, concert master, won several regional solo and group trophies
Chamber Orchestra: 50 hours, first violin
Math Club: 100 hours, member of varsity math team, placed top 10 several times during regional competition
Science Club: 300 hours, won several state competition (science olympia, college science competition etc.) medals, conducted research on asteroid and placed top 4 on research poster
HOSA: 40 hours, won 2 gold medals and 1 silver medal on state HOSA competition
National Honors Society: 50 hours, member
Restaurant: Cashier, 450 hours

Health Experiences w/# of hours
Molecular Research (2014 summer): 360 hours
Liver disease Research (2015 summer): 350 hours
Near Research (2016 summer, after application): 180 hours so far
HOSA hospital shadow: 12 hours

Received Interview? No

Final Result: Denied

5674

@Roentgen thank you!

5675

Thank you for contributing @duravative!!! Although I think it might have inadvertently increased the anxiety level just a tad with your (too) great academic stats and CV, lol. :-SS

5676

Hey guys! I am new to College Confidential and I wanted to see if anyone can give me a predictor on my chances at this program. I am currently an incoming senior.

GPA: unweighted - 4.00 weighted - 5.00 (straight As with always honors or APs)
Class Rank: School does not rank

ACT score: English: 36; Math: 36; Reading: 34; Science: 34 ; Composite: 35
SAT: 1560/1600
SAT Subject Tests: Waiting on Math 2, Biology M, and US History scores (but as this program does not consider Subject tests i guess it does not matter)

AP’s:
Calc BC: 5 (AB sub: 5)
United States History: 5
Macro Economics: 5
European History: 4
Physics C Mech: 3
Physics C E&M: 2 (i am really bad at physics)
Will be taking AP Psychology, AP Language and Composition, AP Biology, AP Chemistry, and self-studying AP Stats senior year

of LORs: will have 4 (2 from teachers, 1 from counselor, 1 from research mentor)

Applicant Pool: Regional
Gender: Female
Ethnicity: Asian

High School Activities and Leadership
Science Olympiad (11, 12): Founder/President
Math Team (9, 10, 11, 12): won several awards within this
Academic Resource Center Tutoring (10, 11, 12): Senior leader in this, basically I tutor fellow students
Badminton (10, 11, 12): Junior Varsity, 2nd Place in #4 Doubles at Conference (11)
Inducted into National Honors Society (11), World Language Honors Society (11), and Spanish National Honors Society (10)
Interact (10, 11, 12): service club
Advanced Honors Research Program (11, 12): school accepts select students into 2-year independent research program
Bollywood Dance (9,10,11,12): advanced dancer, all-star dancer award twice
Illinois Math and Science Academy’s Rise Research Program (10): Gold Award by Illinois Junior Academy of Science/Semifinalist/State Qualifier
School Magazine: Staff member, NCTE “Excellent” Award in Student Literary Magazines

Health Experiences
Volunteering at Hospital (111 hours)
Research at lung cancer research lab for two summers (roughly 350 hours)
Careers in Healthcare course at local college
Shadowing physician (not sure how many hours yet)

Awards
National Merit Semifinalist (i got a PSAT score of 1500/1520 so I am hoping i will be a semifinalist)
AP Scholar with Distinction
Northwestern University’s Midwest Academic Talent Search Outstanding Achievement Award
Science Achievement Award in Physics (9,11) and Biology (11) - school level
Class Act - Student of the Semester (recommended by teacher for academic integrity)

I also have a sibling already in this program (not sure if that helps)

5677

@Roentgen haha. Some anxious is good, and it can motivate people further improving themselves. (besides, my case kinda proves that UMKC doesn’t care much about AP scores and Research experiences…)

@chocolatina1001 Your stats are great! I’m sure you’ll get an interview just based on your high academic achievements. Not sure about the acceptance though. Competition for this program (especially among asian groups) is pretty tough. Several of my asian friends with similar stats as you got rejected/waitlisted this year… I encourage you to apply to several BAMD programs to maximize your chance.

5678

thanks for the reply! were your friends regional too? also, after you get an interview are you viewed on equal status with other interviewees? or are they still gonna decide based on your stats?

5679

@duravative Thanks for posting to help others. But I am curious since I felt you had a good chance. At least based on your own analysis, what lacked in your profile for not got an opportunity in any BS/MD program. Did you apply only to UMKC or many other programs?

@chocolatina1001 You have a good chance. You may know already, Illinois has a program and only in state residents eligible. Also as @texaspg mentioned, NU HPME and BU needs SAT 2 in Chem. This is the time to sit back and take time to put your thoughts for a strong application (essays/prompts) than trying to do more things. GL

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@GoldenRock I completely agree. As far as NU HPME and BU i have decided not to apply to those programs as they are extremely competitive and emphasize chemistry more which I have not taken AP on yet. That is why I have not taken the subject test for chemistry. But I am definitely considering UIC GPPA which is the Illinois-resident only program you mentioned. Do you have any insight into that program?