UMKC 6-year BS/MD Program

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
5681

@chocolatina1001 They are all regionals with 32+ ACT and research experiences. Have no idea about the second part. I didn’t get an interview, so I didn’t care much…

@GoldenRock I only applied to UMKC’s BAMD program, because that’s the only BAMD program that I knew that’s from my region (cost less money). I guess one of the reason is I didn’t put much effort on my essays (and my lack of English vocabulary made it worse.). Another reason is I didn’t have much doctor-shadow experience which UMKC love to see.

5682

@duravative,

I guess I more meant the people who will be applying this fall going into senior year, rather than those in 9th-11th grade that still have quite a bit of time to still put together a majority of their CV. ha ha. Clearly UMKC is getting the benefit of just more and more fantastic students applying. That’s just a function of the applicant pool getting much bigger, better, demographics of the population changing of those applying to college in general and these applying to specific programs like Bachelor/MD programs, more of the class being allowed to be from outside of Missouri, etc.

Yes, you are correct - unfortunately, UMKC does not ask for AP Exam scores at all. They used to have a question: “Have you taken courses for college credit? If so, fill in the boxes below:” on the application: https://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf (from cycle 2008-2009) Where you can then put down if it was credit thru AP, IB, Dual Credit, or some other type of college credit. I don’t think it played a huge role though, because I don’t know anyone who also sent in an AP or IB score report as well to verify this information.

Same for research. UMKC overall is not a huge research institution, at all. Our NIH funding, which is probably the largest source of research funds any place that does research in the US can get (most other sources would be private and thus smaller) is pretty small: https://report.nih.gov/award/index.cfm, about 9.5 million total in 2015, and that’s for the entire university, not just the medical school. So it would be very unfair for UMKC to then expect students to have some level of research coming in, and then when they come to UMKC we would really not have much for them when it comes to building up their application towards residency, especially in certain specialties. I mean, for example, if you’re genuinely interested in ENT, UMKC will not have any ENT research available for you on-site to participate in, although you could probably walk over to the ENT department at Children’s Mercy Hospital (UMKC does not own that hospital), which does have a Peds ENT fellowship, and see if they have anything available in house for you that you could maybe make a poster out of, write a case report on, etc. Your only other option living in KC would be to go over to KU Med, which is a separate institution from UMKC.

So it doesn’t mean research doesn’t play a role at all in the application process, but it’s more of an adjunct, like a cherry on top of the entire sundae. At the more prestigious/competitive Bachelor/MD programs, research is pretty much an unstated prerequisite.

On our application, UMKC emphasizes much more on actual exposure to the healthcare/medical profession especially on the patient care side, because that is what our school pushes out - full-time practicing clinicians who see patients. The main question going thru the person’s head while going thru the application is:

  1. Does he/she really know what he/she is getting into by committing early on as a high school student to hop into medical school towards becoming a physician?
  2. Does this person have the experiences and exposures and enough of it in terms of real-time hours) necessary to see what real clinical medicine is actually like and practiced (keeping in mind these are still high schoolers, so it can be difficult for them to get into some of things that college students are able to get).

So much more the day-to-day, practical side.

5683

Hey @chocolatina1001,

I’ll try to be systematic. I think @goldenrock and @duravative’s analysis is great with regards to your overall chances of receiving an interview. It will be harder than in-state, but not as hard as out-of-state, just solely based on the total # of spots allocated for each pool. In terms of stats, regionals and out-of-state students tend to be pretty close in terms of their incoming academic metrics and standardized test scores. It just happens that there are many more spots available in that regional category (almost double in comparison to out-of-state spots)

Academics (unweighted GPA and standardized test scores)
—VERY stellar and quite excellent - you definitely don’t have to worry at all here. Just as an FYI, UMKC doesn’t look at AP Exam scores or SAT II subject scores. They won’t be asked for at all in the application process. The SAT Subject Exams will be necessary for some of the more top-tier Bachelor/MD programs, which if you do as well as you did on the SAT/ACT, you should have no problem there.

High School Activities & Leadership
—also very excellent, very well-rounded, shows a very long-term sustained involvement throughout high school in a variety of different endeavors (sports, journalism, math/science, research, arts (dance)). Several different leadership positions as well. I would use the description section of each to showcase your awards if you can, as well as the usual describing of what you did in the activity (I don’t know if there is a word limit there). If any of your research here was health/medical related, put it in the Healthcare Activities section instead.

Healthcare Activities
— So I think you’ll PROBABLY be fine here, although I would want to definitely know how many hours in the careers healthcare course, and how many hours in actually shadowing real physician(s) that you did. Similar with volunteering at the hospital – the actual description of this is important so don’t leave anything out. This section gives the person going over the application the best idea of your overall first-hand exposure to the medical profession and to the healthcare environment as a whole and that you’re fully comfortable with being around patients. See my post above in the thread regarding this particular section. I’ve also included there some examples of very short term things that you can rack up easily and quickly, which count as healthcare/medical experiences toward this section. It definitely doesn’t have to be hospital/clinic based. There are also links there in which you can enter in your zip code to find healthcare activities especially over the summer or in the early fall, in your area.

Awards – so there hasn’t been an Awards section on the application at least in the last 2 application cycles, so I would include these under descriptions of specific activities. I would ask the admissions office on where it’s possible to include your National Merit Semifinalist honor and AP Scholar with Distinction (maybe under NHS?) especially, since these are nationally well-known awards.

Assuming your personal statement and short-response essays are good, which I think they will be, I also think you have a good chance of receiving an interview as well, even in the regional pool, but I would try to add some more short-term easy to do healthcare-related activities on the healthcare activities section, which is pretty easy to find and do. It will also help when you apply to other programs as well, which want to see that PLUS things like research which you have (since they tend to be the more competitive ones).

I also think you should have like what @goldenrock may have alluded to, like a concrete list/spreadsheet on Bachelor/MD programs that you wouldn’t mind going to — top tier (reaches, dream programs), middle-tier, low-tier (I’d say safeties, but the truth is there is no such thing as a “safety” in the Bachelor/MD world). You can go to a list here: http://www.ivyplanners.com/documents/BS-MD-IvyPlanners.pdf. What their deadlines are, what their requirements are, essay prompts for each, etc.

I think you should definitely apply to places like Brown, Penn State/Jefferson (it’s now 7 years, used to be 6), Miami HPME, Case Western PPSP, Rice/Baylor, those in your home state like UIC GPPA etc. I would just call in and ask anyways to NW and to BU SMED if an SAT Subject Exam in Chem is absolutely non-negotiable or if an SAT Subject Exam in Bio is also ok since you’ll actually be taking AP Chemistry as a senior. Doesn’t hurt to ask, and just so you aren’t closing any doors that might still be open. See if you can talk or email the admissions head person of the Bachelor/MD at NW and BU SMED just so you are getting the correct and factual answer.

5684

@Roentgen wow thank you so much for your detailed feedback! I will definitely take your advice to heart. And by the way the healthcare course was about 65 hours and I will be shadowing in August so I’m not sure how many hours I will have. Is there a minimum I should aim for in shadowing? The awards section was mostly intended for Common App but since UMKC isnt on there I can probably squeeze them in somewhere else. And so I should not send my AP Scores to UMKC? Some people say they send them anyway or something.

5685

@Chocolatina1001, to answer your other question, of after the interview whether you are viewed on equal status with other interviewees, it’s a little more complex than that. It definitely used to be where for the longest time, once you got to that interview stage, it sort of started all over from scratch, for all intents and purposes. The school felt that in terms of how you were on paper - so academics, CV stuff, essay(s), you fit the school’s overall requirements, so now you have to interview, where someone can see how you are off paper, in real life. Most people said the interview was pretty much “make or break” (also back then the interview component was still 2 traditional interviews - which they did up until the end of 2012, I believe, after which they now do the MMI).

Now it’s much more standardized, to where each component of the application contributes to an overall end result. They use the sometimes nebulous term in higher education admissions “holistic”: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/admission-requirements-eligibility/. But it’s not like any one specific part clinches it for you.

But say like, for example (and this is only an example): unweighted high school GPA in the 17 core requirements of the university contributes x percentage/# of points, standardized test score contributes y percentage/# of points, personal statement contributes z percentage/# of points, and so on, all the way down, so by the time you get to the interview stage, all of those things have already been put into the rubric: unweighted GPA in 17 cores, standardized test score, school ECs, healthcare ECs, reference form eval numbers, personal statement, short answer essays, have all contributed their specific percentage/# of points/piece of the apple pie. The only thing left now, is the interview for that last component to go into the rubric. And it just so happens the interview is a large enough percentage/number of points/piece of the pie/whatever, to tip the scales (like it’s always been) – so it’s not something you can ignore. So it’s not like if you got ALL the points on everything else, you’re completely safe.

Notice that you have to have your ACT/SAT by November 1, for initial application review, but in terms of that final review, your ACT/SAT score can go all the way up until December for that final review calculation (acceptance/denial/waitlist). That sort of proves my point about how each part contributes to the overall result.

So after saying all that, in terms of what is actually practical to you now, in terms of application or at the interview stage, it’s probably not that overly useful. For example, we have absolutely no idea what their exact “grading” rubric is - both for getting the interview and then again at the final review (assuming the person gets to that part), we have no idea what exact percentage or exact # of points each specific component actually contributes. The best we really have is more at the MMI in which there are example grading rubrics on the internet in terms of how the scale MIGHT be for that part and how it’s maybe graded, but that doesn’t even really help you much. So it’s not like in high school where you can take out your calculator and calculate exactly what grade you would need on the final to keep your “A” in the class. In more practical terms, it’s not like each applicant at the MMI interview day knows exactly how many total percentage/points they have going into the interview. Applicants will have tons of guesses in terms of where they and everyone else rates (because people talk about their stats, stuff on their CV, blah blah) but it really means nothing.

I hope that makes sense? If not, let me know.

5686

@chocolatina1001, I would try to have maybe at least a 100 hours of total physician shadowing, if you can. You also have the entire fall as well before the application is due, but you can really rack it up in the summer since you don’t have school. You can also do things like maybe volunteering at a nursing home or at an assisted living facility (that counts as health care facility - remember it’s not just solely hospitals – see my post in the thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19747021/#Comment_19747021). And then of course there are so many short-term things you can do - cancer marathon fundraisers (i.e. Susan G. Komen breast cancer), blood donation drives, etc.

Oh, and I just realized that the links where you can enter your zip code are in the post right before the one I listed above. It’s http://www.volunteermatch.org/ and http://www.allforgood.org/. I am sure there are more volunteer-type databases out there.

No, I wouldn’t send in your AP scores, it doesn’t even go into the rubric, unfortunately. You can see here: http://med.umkc.edu/bamd/admission-requirements-eligibility/ - “SAT subject exams are not used in the admissions process.” so AP exams would be treated just like SAT subject exams - no role. The purpose of AP Exams (and IB exams, and CLEP exams) are more for AFTER you’ve matriculated and the university you’re at is deciding what to give you college credit for (if anything).

5687

One of my friend’s friend is in the program and when I casually asked him about the acceptance rate he said UMKC tends to prefer indians more. is this true?

5688

@Sona3599, yes, which is why every Friday is Bollywood Movie Fun Night on campus and every UMKC BA/MD student upon matriculation is required to become a member of INDUS and actively contribute towards at least one performance (individual or group) at the INDUS show in the spring during the 6 years.

5689

@Roentgen Yes that makes so much sense what you said about interviews. And based on your last post, does that mean preference may be given to Indians (I am Indian)?

5690

@chocolatina1001, @sona3599

Sorry, it was my attempt at a joke in humor (clearly it didn’t work at all and completely bombed). I will say this, if anyone takes that seriously, that student organization will be getting the most member participation ever this upcoming fall if all Year 1 students were to join, much less everyone in all 6 years, if 600 people join. lol.

Let me explain (this time not joking):

It’s more by just applicant demographics, that UMKC’s BA/MD program has a high percentage of Asians, specifically Asians of Indian (Indian subcontinent) descent: http://kcur.org/post/med-school-express - “Asian students make up almost 40 percent of the student population at UMKC’s medical school. That’s close to twice the national average at other medical schools.” And this article was back in 2006. Remember, this is a program which occurs BEFORE the traditional application process even starts – the process that most people who go to college usually know something about. And you have to know about these programs a little bit earlier in high school to have some sort of fighting chance to build a CV to make yourself competitive, thus making the applicant pool for BA/MD programs much different than the traditional applicant pool (although it’s much easier to do that research now with so many websites like College Confidential).

Now at UMKC Med it’s probably greater than 40% (maybe 50-60%?) just because you now have more total # of Asians who are of college-eligible status/age (and thus more Asians applying to Bachelor/MD programs) and also you have the added regional pool (since Fall 2007) which we get a LOT of our regional students coming from certain states: Illinois, Oklahoma and Kansas (before that, at UMKC, it was only in-state and out-of-state, usually at a ratio of 90% in-state:10% out-of state). Arkansas and Nebraska are probably like the lowest, in terms of overall composition of regional students.

So being Asian (or Asian-Indian), isn’t something the school purposefully tries to recruit more of (so not a preference by definition), it’s more just a consequence of the demographics of the Bachelor/MD application pool itself.

Just as a comparison, the percentage of Asians in the entire university at UMKC, is about 7%: https://irapweb.umkc.edu/reports/files/pdf/Student%20Profile%202010-2011.pdf

5691

@Chocolatina1001 and others who may read the post in the thread (Post #5685): Instead of it saying, “to answer your other question, of after the interview whether you are viewed on equal status with other interviewees,” that should actually say, “to answer your other question, of once you get to the interview (stage), whether you are viewed on equal status with other interviewees,” instead.

5692

@Roentgen Thanks for the update! Do you think I would need more volunteering hours? I am having a hard time finding volunteering related to healthcare or food shelter (stuff like that) on the weekends for people under 18.

5693

@chocolatina1001, you mean more volunteering hours on the School and Leadership side (non-healthcare related)? I honestly I don’t think you need more to add to that section, just because of the overall strength of that particular section for you already, if you read that part of my post. I mean you definitely could, but it wouldn’t really change much in terms of the rubric since it’s already so strong. You could do like one or 2 things (food shelter volunteering) would apply here, to round it out, if you want.

I think focusing on the Healthcare ECs section is the best thing you can do to augment that part of your CV as that seems just looking from a distance the “weakest” part of your CV. Yeah, most volunteering related to healthcare isn’t like just a weekend, they’ll expect a bit more commitment esp. in the summer when everyone is off from school.

5694

Thank you! @Roentgen

5695

Hey @Roentgen, I’m pretty sure you were joking, but there isn’t really a Bollywood Movie Fun Night every Friday on campus is there? :slight_smile:

5696

@GulabJamun, ha ha, no there isn’t (I completely made that up), but I think it would be fun to have or to start! The school does have a movie theatre though which is part of the Student Union that opened up on campus in Fall 2010: http://www.umkc.edu/union/movies.asp.

Since you’re entering this fall, you can find out more about INDUS and what they do here: https://roogroups.collegiatelink.net/organization/INDUS. They do have various events thru out the year open to all UMKC students. Interest in terms of those in the BA/MD program can really vary depending on the people in a specific med school class. Like any event/organization, some people will be excited to particpate from the very beginning, others will slowly drift in, others will think they’re “too cool for school” and not really participate.

5697

Hello, I am a current year 5 student in the 6 year program. I have been reading some of these posts in my free time and I know that there are a few people who would like to hear from current students. Let me know if you have any questions and I can try to answer them to the best of my ability.

5698

Not really a specific question, but what are your general thoughts on the program? Is it doable, are you happy you chose to go through the program, etc?

5699

Hey, @mrsoccer1448, thank you for your willingness to contribute. Please see the question from @slimybananas420 above. I hope more people ask you questions as you’re currently in the program and have finished a huge majority of it. Quick queston as I’m editing the Google Doc, do BA/MD students still take their course exams with paper, pencil and scantron, or do they take exams in the relatively new computer testing lab?

5700

@slimybananas420 the program is definitely do-able. It is all about time management in my opinion. If you make some time to study, some time to go to class and some time to do extracurriculars and take care of yourself, you will be in a very good position. If I had to do the program again, I would definitely do it. Nothing beats saving 2 years of time and money. Plus no MCAT which is a bonus (I was not 100% sure in my ability to get into med schools going the normal 4 + 4 route, but that may just be me so I chose this path and I’m happy I did).
@Roentgen, yeah I think students still take exams on pencil/paper/scantron for the first 3-4 years. Only exams that are computerized are the CBSE (practice USMLE step 1 exam) exam in year 4 and the subject exams for clerkships/rotations in year 5