@sampil the way to look at UMKC is, the probability for selection is higher for in state and then regional and then OOS because of the simple fact related to data, the number of applications and number of seats in each pool. Are you regional or OOS?
So your ACT score of 34 is excellent (above the average of 31), your GPA of 3.84 is slightly higher (but not a sizable difference) than the average of 3.81, and will be taken in context with the rigor of your high school curriculum.
In looking at your school activities, depending on how many hours you’re involved (which you didn’t list in your post), I think you should probably be ok in that area. It’s not as expansive that others in the regional/out-of-state category potentially might have, in terms of volume and # of leadership positions, but I do think it shows particular discrete areas that you took a leadership role in. At least with the way the supplemental application is currently structured, things like AP Exam scores (are more looked at AFTER you matriculate) and being a a National Merit Semifinalist doesn’t really seem to factor in (unfortunately) at the application level. UMKC Med doesn’t currently ask for SAT subject exams either.
In terms of leadership, I don’t think they really ask for that in the healthcare activities category, vs. in the school activities category where they do, but I would list that under the description. Your healthcare activities, although slightly less in terms of how many are listed, are excellent in terms of the total number of hours. Your research would count under the healthcare category as well. If you can, I would try to stretch out the shadowing in terms of how you list them on the application. Don’t put them all into one category, as it helps for the reader, I think, to see which specialties you’ve shadowed in – i.e. pediatrician, surgeon, etc. Same with the different hospitals you shadowed in (i.e. Adult, Children, Behavioral Health, etc.)
While you are in the regional category, regional and OOS students probably do tend to have similar stats in terms of academics and test scores: https://www.umkc.edu/admissions/docs/2009MedApplication.pdf (This is an old application from the 2008-2009 cycle but you can see on page 5 of 24 how Missouri residents are sort of in one category and regional/out-of-state are in another). You do have a higher chance just based on the total number of interview slots and matriculant spots that are allocated to the regional pool vs. those in the out-of-state pool. So just based on this and what you posted, I do think you do have a good chance of being offered an interview (assuming that your personal statement and short response essays are written up to par).
Just based on your academic stats and CV, I would also apply to other Bachelor/MD programs as well, that you’d be comfortable going to: i.e. SLU Med Scholars, maybe Case Western’s PPSP, etc.
Hey guys (and gals), so I realize that most of you right now are deciding which Bachelor/MD programs to apply to (along with regular undergrads), are filling out applications, and writing your personal statements/essays.
Sometime next week, I’ll be putting together something on how to thoroughly evaluate Bachelor/MD programs in a more systematic way. As you guys (and gals) know with these type of programs, you’re effectively committing to both the undergraduate institution AND the medical school at the same time at an early age.
One thing I’ve seen, that is difficult for high school senior students, is coming up with or knowing what questions to ask (both for the undergraduate institution and for the medical school institution) to get the answers they need to make a calm, rational and informed matriculation decision. You may be choosing among several Bachelor/MD program acceptances or making a decision between 1 Bachelor/MD acceptance and an excellent undergrad university/state public flagship. Either way, it helps to have that information organized, your questions answered, before things start getting cloudier when an acceptance comes by April 1.
I’ll probably break it up into parts, one for the undergraduate institution and one for the the medical school institution. I’ve posted this list before, but it seems to be the most all-encompassing list that I’ve seen:
http://www.ivyplanners.com/documents/BS-MD-IvyPlanners.pdf.
There are other Bachelor/MD lists which you can see on this thread from the CC forum here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/774880-consolidated-listing-of-popular-programs-p2.html
@Roentgen I just visited the umkc campus today and I’m from Los Angeles. I wasn’t that impressed by the KC area, especially coming from LA. I was rethinking about applying here, asking myself if I’ll really be happy staying there for 6 years of my life. I was wondering, did you think that the program was worth it if one is just in it to avoid the MCAT? I feel like I just need to suck it up and study hard and take the MCAT at a normal 4 year college in California where I know I’ll be happy. Your thoughts?
@american99 I am sure @Roentgen will reply and that will be more authentic since he went thru the program.
It is wonderful you could make a trip. It is very very useful, to see the place if you can afford and work out the logistics, especially for some unique programs like UMKC, Neomed, Howard and some lower tiered schools.
We in CA are at disadvantage being in the other coast.
Go with your intuition, since YOU are the one going to live and study for 6 years. If you are not going to be happy, that is not good. That is exactly the feeling I got when I took my D to Neomed for interview. Nothing wrong with the school or location but felt it is in isolated place. Though she did not say any thing, I felt she should have a life after all even though you all will be busy and hectic with your student life. In Drexel, my D did not like at all and she told even if she gets selected, she does not want to join.
If not UMKC, still you can apply to other selective BS/MD programs, besides the route of doing 4 year college in CA.
Hey @american99, great question! It kind of dovetails with my post above. I’ll probably hit several points that @GoldenRock mentioned in my response.
I wish I myself, as a high school senior, had gotten to thoroughly visit college campuses and cities of places that I was considering for higher education (not counting the day of an interview in which you’re too nervous to really pay attention anyways), so it’s great that you were able to do that early on before the hustle and bustle. It’s a little more expensive short-term and can be harder to do with high school excused attendance rules and what not, but IMHO it’s well worth it to get out of that elementary/middle school/high school enclosed bubble to really explore campuses & figure things out, before you’ve packed up and moved there and start paying tuition.
As you probably figured out, KC is nothing like LA in terms of the city, the weather patterns (probably wasn’t cold/snowing yet while you were there), and fun things for young people to do, and quite honestly, it never will be. It’s not a major city in terms of population, not even the top 30. KC is cut up much differently than most other cities as well. It can very much be a total culture shock to you if you’re coming to KC for the first time from outside of the Midwest, especially from California.
You can see some of my posts in the thread on this here (I’m sure there are more in the thread that I’ve posted):
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19812945#Comment_19812945
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19475067#Comment_19475067
but to summarize, no, I did NOT think the UMKC combined program was worth it just to skip the MCAT or to graduate in 6 years. IMHO, those aren’t good reasons by themselves to do the program, as you make a lot of inherent compromises at a younger age (some of which you might not see or appreciate the importance of at the moment).
Medicine (at least thru the physician track) is a career filled with numerous standardized tests (MCAT, USMLE Step 1, USMLE Step 2, USMLE Step 2 CS, USMLE Step 3, medical school shelf exams, residency in-training exams, specialty boards, etc.) and which greatly rewards skilled test takers, so in retrospect, it’s quite silly to enter a profession in which you’re skipping 1 exam, which in totality, is the easiest, in comparison to those later on. And contrary to layman’s thinking, the hardest part of the entire career journey is not just getting into medical school.
I’ll say this: your day-to-day happiness while in the UMKC combined program will be short-lived and dissipate very quickly if it relies on the no MCAT factor or the graduating in 6 years factor (which you didn’t mention, but often these 2 reasons are the ones that are cited). Six years may seem short, but it can feel like a long time while you’re in the program, and being unhappy with where you are can make it that much worse (and the snowy/cold weather doesn’t help). This is especially true if you’re OOS, and can’t visit home as often as the in-state kids can potentially do, in order to recharge. I would go even further to say it’s the perfect recipe for burnout, if the no MCAT/6 year aspects are your primary motivators.
Part of the reason is that the program goes for 6 years long w/o some type of extended break (in most other combined programs, you do get at least 1 summer break off). I also think people figure out (too late) that they just compromised way too early in the process. And to top it all off, especially for OOS students, it’s not a great deal financially at all (unless you’re already very affluent to where cost is never an issue, which not surprisingly, many out-of-state students in this program tend to be, but not all): https://www.sfa.umkc.edu/site2/forms/coa/Non-Resident-(BA-MD).pdf. While in the program, we used to joke with eachother that we’re paying higher tuition than Harvard, without the Harvard degree.
So this is what I would do in your situation:
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Apply to the regular 4 year undergrads you want – from California, people usually apply to the UCs at baseline (places like UCLA and UC-Berkeley give an excellent, reputable education with a great price) but also other great universities that appeal to you.
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Apply to the Bachelor/MD programs that YOU are comfortable with, as @GoldenRock mentioned. If you’re really not comfortable going there based on campus/city visits or you notice red flags, DON’T APPLY. I say that because you’ll see that as a Bachelor/MD application cycle progresses, students will become more and more anxious/on-edge and become psychologically invested to go there, especially when they receive an acceptance. So any apparent negatives become smaller than they really are, disappear, or you rationalize it and put it in the back of your mind, since you now are looking at things thru the lens of an acceptance. As @GoldenRock mentioned, listen to your intuition, air out aspects that concern you with your parents so that you get a different perspective. The examples he gave are good ones, esp. with NEOMED.
While visiting campuses, check out their resources (academic/non-academic) that they have available, their dorms, etc. Really get to know the campus – write things down, take smartphone photos so you can remember months later when you get back home and you’re comparing different places and don’t want to mix institutions up in April when you’re deciding.
Hope this answers your question.
Can anyone clarify exactly what the question “How does your presence on social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat or Instagram influence your professional image?” is asking?
Yeah, I didn’t like that question too much personally. LOL. The question from last year was a little similar but different: “How do social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat or Instagram influence the practice of medicine?” Which is a little bit better. First take out the “such as Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat or Instagram” part to get to the meat of the question: How does your presence on social media platforms influence your professional image? You can google “professional image” and “social media” + or - the word “physician”.
It’s a weird question, IMHO, to ask you guys, 1) because you guys aren’t professionals yet, nor are you guys in formal schooling leading up to a terminal professional degree (yet) so you don’t really have any real, first-hand personal experience with your own career professional image, 2) contrary to conventional wisdom, not everyone is social media savvy or has a social media presence. Maybe they tried it for a bit, got tired of it, and either don’t use it or got rid of it. I think this question requires some level of role playing (both as a patient and as a physician) on both sides to better understand what the question is getting at, without having experience.
Are there some things you’d be concerned about as a patient or that you think patients might be concerned about if you saw those things on your personal physician’s social media? For example, let’s say as a parent, I’m trying to search for a new long-term pediatrician for my newborn son. So I’m looking up doctors in my area that take my insurance plan, which I then Google to see their credentials - and I happen to see one of your social media accounts. I click on your Instagram (where you say you’re a pediatrician in your bio), and there is a photo which clearly shows you pretty intoxicated after a party (just as an example). How do you think that would impact my perception (as a patient/parent of a patient) of you as a professional (and hence my likelihood of ever going to you, to care for the health and well-being of my child?) Hint: It would most likely be quite a negative impact. Some of your patient(s) might question your judgement of having a picture like that in the first place and then your secondary judgement of putting the picture on your social media which they can see. Or they might say, “Geez, does she have an alcohol problem?” It would only be natural, in a domino effect, for potential patients to go further and possibly question your clinical competence.
I’ll give another example in which I reverse roles. Say you’re an adult patient looking for a primary care physician. You happen to have high blood pressure, high cholesterol, you’re maybe a little bit overweight, by about 15 lbs, and are looking to get back to a healthy lifestyle and lose weight. I’m recommended to you by one of your friends who is much more overweight but tells you that I have a good bedside manner, I listen well to her health issues, etc. So then in researching me and my credentials, you go thru Facebook and you see one of my Facebook posts (which clearly wasn’t put on private) to my friends in which I make a crude fat joke on one of my long time patients whom I describe quite clearly (and whom you recognize as your friend), referring to their “total lack of willpower”, what a hopeless case that person is, and I say that I have no idea why he/she keeps coming to me. Knowing that information, would you be more or less likely to come to me as a new patient? How sure would you be that I wouldn’t possibly do the same to you, if you were my patient, if you were initially having some difficulty in trying to maintain a diet?
Here’s a real life example that made it in the news and came straight to my mind: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/06/amy-dunbar-obgyn_n_2630823.html. Now clearly this physician was upset and frustrated by this patient’s consistent tardiness. She may be the most competent and stellar OB-Gyn in the area. But in reading that post, what would you think initially, as someone who has never met her? As a potential patient, would you see her in a more positive light, in terms of patient care, or more negative light?
This question seems to be trying to more hit on professional behavior that most patients naturally expect from a physician, and tying it to social media presence, and the effect (good or bad - and there are both) it can have on that image. They’re effectively trying to see if you can make the connection between social media (which by definition, is public) and the image of you as a professional on a day-to-day basis (which physicians clearly are). Hope that explains it somewhat, but that’s my interpretation of that question.
Thank you! @Roentgen I guess I was more interpreting the question in terms of my present social media and not being able to answer the question because I do not have an extremely active social media presence.
@chocolatina1001, I think the underlying assumption to the question is that you (the applicant) do have some level of social media presence at baseline (even if it’s just Facebook alone). It isn’t really fair (IMHO), because there are tons of normal people, high schoolers included, who don’t have one or they created one but are hardly ever on it if at all. It would be like me saying, how does your riding of a hoverboard affect your transportation needs, when you’ve maybe ridden a hoverboard twice in your life.
I would think that above assumption is there because if there wasn’t, then it would be a one liner: “My social media presence does not affect my professional image since I have no social media presence and prefer to talk with real people face to face. The End”. LOL. (which clearly isn’t the answer they are looking for). In the past application cycle, that question wasn’t mandatory so you could easily skip it for the other option. The question isn’t asking how active you are on social media, but just at baseline establishing that you do have social media presence, now how does that affect your professional image, if that makes sense.
You could always call the med school admissions office and ask them what do they actually mean by that question on the application, since you’re not very active on social media (you’re not the only one by far). It’s a perfectly legitimate question by applicants and when I first saw that question from the start I was pretty sure it was probably going to cause some issues for quite a few applicants, so you’re definitely not alone.
@Roentgen Thank you so much for the help!
So, this is what we’re NOT going to do on this thread this application cycle and it’s sad that I even have to mention this, at this point, as I thought we had covered this earlier in the thread. We are NOT going to start going down the slippery road of CC users censoring other CC users’ posts on this thread/sub-forum SOLELY because a user disagrees with a particular post about a combined program in question. It’s a totally different issue altogether if the post is deemed abusive, and I will fully leave that judgment to the CC moderators who have been here much longer than I have, who have much more experience in this area than I do, and whom I fully respect. We have dealt with very differing views & perspectives on this particular combined program in this thread MANY TIMES in the past and we’ve managed to do that (most of the time) respectfully. I expect that same trend to continue this year. That is nothing new since this thread started back in 2004, which is now almost old enough to enter the 7th grade.
I think it does a HUGE disservice to applicants and to parents, especially those that are lucky enough to be deciding among several combined program acceptances and have to look at all the details, no matter how small, on where best to invest their money. It also overall makes people LESS likely to give their opinion in the thread/forum and want to contribute the realities/their perspective of a program. One of the purposes of College Confidential is to help applicants and their parents get a more behind the scenes look that is not available to them even on interview days, or campus visit days, etc. on all higher education institutions and particular tracks/programs themselves, as well as the actual application process to make much more informed matriculation decisions.
My only exception to all of this above is when users start lobbing personal attacks at each other back and forth, which has also definitely happened on this thread in the past, which I will not tolerate (I am not saying that this has happened now as of yet). It’s happened before, it completely ruins the entire mood & discussion in the thread at hand and it turns people off. If you want to do that, take it to the CC private messages. Leave it out of this thread and this sub-forum.
There’s a reason this thread alone has 995 K (almost a million) views by different users - one of the largest in this particular subforum’s history that I’ve seen. I would like to think it’s because both applicants and parents get to really see many different views of this 6 year combined program over the thread’s 12 year existence, anxious parents can see what it’s possibly like before their child jumps into this program head first, beyond what they can easily read from institution websites/brochures/handbooks/pamphlets or hear on interview day from med school administrators and appointed UMKC Med peer mentors. Students who are evaluating many Bachelor/MD programs can see those opinions, and ask great questions & verify to get real answers BOTH in this particular thread/forum, as well as on their interview day, to make the matriculation decision a transparent and informed process. I also think it’s a good forum for students (and parents!) to vent about this hand-wringing process while getting workable answers, solutions, and added perspective, as they’re not the only ones with those questions/concerns.
This thread is one of the few threads on this subforum, IMHO, which allows “pulling back the curtain” to evaluate it in full from matriculation to match day/match lists. And intertwined in that is the contribution to this thread & overall sub-forum by alumni (those who have graduated) and current students (those currently enrolled) in their combined program in question, who come back and give their perspectives on their particular combined program to future applicants, and even parents themselves who have a son/daughter who have applied for combined programs and already gone thru this process, like @GoldenRock, who are kind enough to continue to give back to this forum and to future applicants ten-fold, long after their child’s application cycle is over, even though he/she doesn’t personally benefit in any way. I believe that’s a huge positive to have in this subforum rather than having solely applicants talk amongst eachother in which there is a large “in the bubble” effect created when it comes to the application cycle, as well as what is important to be looking out for when evaluating combined programs.
To put into familiar higher education lingo and the news, this thread is NOT going to become a “safe space” so that CC users are protected from opinions/views/perspectives on particular combined programs that he/she may not agree with (outside of criteria deemed abusive by the moderators as determined by the TOS when you signed up to be a CC user). The moment that starts happening as an overrriding trend in this thread, I’ll be figuratively packing up my bags to leave, I’ll sincerely wish everyone the best of luck in their application cycle, and this thread can go in whatever direction that it choooses. Just to be clear, this in no way is a threat, and I don’t expect my particular opinions, observations, and posts to be accepted and held as gospel. I never have had that expectation. My main goals have been to give my experiences while in the program as well as those of my close classmates & with alumni that I’ve talked with, have parents/students become more actively informed about the application process, combined programs, institutions in those combined programs, so that they come up with actual good questions they should be asking to get answers and to verify, so they have all the information they need at their disposal, to evaluate several BA/MD acceptances or even just one BA/MD acceptance.
If someone’s posts, which are different than your thoughts, are really that annoying or offending to your psyche there is a simple solution: Click on that person’s CC username. That will lead to that user’s CC face page. Then click on the orange “Ignore” button. The text from their posts disappears from the thread with the filter applied. Problem solved. People are going to have different views on the combined program. Some will be positive, others will be negative, some may be neutral. If you want only positive material with absolutely no negatives, caveats, etc. you can read institution websites, brochures, catalogs, pamphlets, blah blah, etc.
This post wasn’t directed at any person in particular in terms of assigning any blame, as I didn’t even get to read the post in full, so I don’t know any furthermore specifics. I am more referring in a general theme. My point is let’s try to continue to make this a thread in which ALL CC users (applicants, parents, current students, alumni) feel that they can contribute their experiences/concerns/questions and still be respected, and to where discussion of this combined program is increased, even if that opinion differs from your personal one.
@Roentgen You have summarized nicely and I fully agree. It is very disappointing. I was on travel for the last 5 days, and glanced that post though don’t remember every word. But I did NOT felt in any way the post was worthy of censorship. On the contrary, I thought it is a valuable post. Because, we as parents, have no actual experience except what ever we read from the college web site or from post from others. But that person, has LIVED and EXPERIENCED for 6 years. Though we can give the benefit of doubts to UMKC and assume this individual user was not matured or high expectation or what ever, but still he expressed his/her experience, What is wrong with that? Readers understand and will use their judgement.
These forums and posts are invaluable. Yes both parents and students go thru turbulent times. Parents we understand it is not natural to expect students should / will know that medicine is the right profession at this age and at the same time, we want to guide and support them to the right thing. Almost most of the students who are applying for this BS/MD is so strong and has worked so hard at this young age. So if a school is not worthy, they could get admission in top 50 colleges or can get a free ride in their school of their choice. So much is riding on this, both money and time. We can not roll back the clock of a student life.
Wish I know about this CC, 2 years back so that my D would have had few interviews from top tier school. I continue to read and encourage other parents and students to read this particular thread since people like @Roentgen provide so much valuable information in general about applying to BS/MD (not just for UMKC) and also about medical profession and we appreciate his time and passion.
For readers who have not read the deleted post, here is the gist of that student who is in his final 6th year in UMKC. That user felt UMKC did not provide the support s/he expected and some of the students are finding hard for certain residency specialty. Also expressed for the amount they charge it is hard to believe the college feels it is short of money to provide that level of service.
@Roentgen @GoldenRock Thanks for enlightenment ^:)^
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Thank you @texaspg for the explanation to all of us on the thread. I think it was effectively coming on too strong in the very 1st post that was an issue.
Thanks for your posts @GoldenRock! I can’t say enough how much I and others appreciate your contributions. Very helpful especially to those who are starting out early and are completely new to the entire process on where to even start. This “Multiple Degree Programs” subforum started after I was already in the program so it was too late for me.
I do think careful 4 year high school planning is probably needed for some of the very competitive Bachelor/MD programs due to checking off certain CV categories (i.e. like research), but honestly, so many of us “self-select” out just in terms of the strength of standardized test scores that are needed anyways, as these programs are so highly coveted and can set their internal cutoff much higher. Even then, after all that, getting actual interviews & an eventual acceptance can be a complete crapshoot. And that’s before any cost considerations have to be taken into account. I’ve stressed over and over again, that Bachelor/MD programs are ALWAYS a compromise because they are an alternate route of entry into medical school. Depending on the school, and depending on the size of the BS/MD program, they even get phased out as both USC’s and UC-San Diego’s did and there was nothing wrong with the program itself.
I believe the advice from the UMKC thread can also be used for other Bachelor/MD programs that students are considering.
Thanks @sampil, for the alert.
If applicants do have questions on the residency match process/UMKC’s ability to be able to match students into certain specialties/the strength of UMKC’s match lists or the slightly different tuition aspect at UMKC, I’d be happy to answer them. We’ve answered some of those questions in the past as well.
I know this is a very dumb question to ask but is UMKC going to ask for certification for each healthcare experience for? Not everyone will be honest and I want to provide as much proof as possible. Thanks!