Under 3.6 (GPA) and Applying Top 20 Parents Thread

<p>Class rank/gpa is going to be ultimately more important to admissions than test scores because it is based on 4 years worth of performance in many classes with a lot of variables rather than the performance on one test sitting.</p>

<p>As someone going through this a 2nd time around, I have seen too many tests scores that don’t make sense: </p>

<p>*Why did D1 pull a 780 on SAT writing when her 2 other writing scores were 670 and 680? (11/12 essays on all tests.) There was no studying involved.</p>

<p>*Why a consistent 650 to 670 on SAT math (about an 89th %ile) but two 34’s on ACT math (99th % ile)? The SAT’s and ACT’s were taken within a week of each other and there was no additional study time for the ACT’s.</p>

<p>*A random 24 in reading on the ACT? (Re-scored and remained the same.) All other reading ACT and SAT scores were consistently much higher.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I have my fingers cross that D2 will ace her tests, because right now her GPA/rank is less than stellar…</p>

<p>But in the end, her GPA probably does reflect more how she performs as a student (somewhat laissez faire) and her test scores will probaly reflect what her potential is if she better applied herself.</p>

<p>And colleges do have a right to admit their students based on their academic achievements rather than their potential.</p>

<p>bovertine - the AI 2/3 weighting tilt on test scores is explained in Michele Hernandez’s book – 1/3 SAT Reasoning Test, 1/3 SAT Subject Test, 1/3 CRS. You should be able to google it.</p>

<p>I did a stint in the admissions office at a T20 schools. At no point did I see anyone use the AI. There was no initial scoring. We simply picked up a folder and started reading. The only marks referred to ‘hooks’ (coaches, VIPs & special talents). We were instructed to consider the applicant’s UWGPA, strength of schedule, quality of the high school test scores. By the way the applicant’s SAT IIs and APs (reflected in strength of schedule) scores trumped their SAT/ACT scores.</p>

<p>Great, we have an insider!</p>

<p>appdad, without naming the school, can you tell us how much weight the school placed on UWGPA versus test scores (SAT, SAT II, AP)? Is there a UWGPA cutoff for unhooked apps?</p>

<p>“can you tell us how much weight the school placed on UWGPA versus test scores (SAT, SAT II, AP”
he did give you clear indication of “weight”-
""By the way the applicant’s SAT IIs and APs (reflected in strength of schedule) scores trumped their SAT/ACT scores. "
I can understand the AP scores trumping the general SAT scores when colleges are looking for confirmation of the rigor of an applicant’s classes. a 3 hour AP test should count for more than a 1 hour SAT subject test.</p>

<p>I feel so at home in this thread… 99th percentile ACT/SAT scores, 3.5 GPA, applying to some T20’s.</p>

<p>Go me.</p>

<p>Bovertine,
We have nine years’ of Naviance data and while S2 is in the far right green dot range on SAT, there isn’t much data with his combo of SAT and GPA. We do know that historically, the colleges on his list accept a significantly higher % of applicants from his HS than the usual released acceptance rates. He hopes he hits a “demographic sweet spot” with his unusual combo of helmet sport, ECs and full IB diploma + 12 APs. </p>

<p>He seems to be quite settled into his list, which currently has one T20 (where his brother attends), though he has four T-20 LACs as well. I asked him yesterday if it turns out he does really well in this process, were there any schools higher up the selectivity chain he might be sorry he didn’t send an app come April, and he said no.</p>

<p>Current list:
Tufts, UChicago, Carleton, CMC, URoch, Bowdoin, Georgetown SFS, W&M, Macalester, UMD-CP.
Considered:<br>
Brandeis, Brown, Colby, NYU, Swat, Haverford, Grinnell, St. Mary’s/MD, JHU, American, Syracuse, Boston U, CMU, Pitt.</p>

<p>I would like to think the class ranking and GPA at a well known HS weight at least equally to SAT/ACT scores. However, there seems to have far fewer 2400/36 scorers than 4.0 students with 12 ~ 15 AP. </p>

<p>So, who knows. This is what makes this process so challenging. Only if there were a fixed formula.</p>

<p>when so many HS [particularly private HS’s] don’t report the class rank of individual students, that leaves the school transcript/ GPA and the SAT/ ACT as the “first filters” that many colleges use when evaluating the strength of an applicant.</p>

<p>I caught that some kids were considering Michigan in this thread-- Michigan just announced that they are no longer recalculating a UM GPA. Previously they averaged the core academic grades from 10th and 11th grade and used that GPA for decisions, but they will now use cumulative gpa from 9th-11th grade. So for some of you that may help, but for others it may hurt.</p>

<p>If that’s true, then Michigan just ensured that a some really good students won’t be attending. Could they have been forced to do this by legislation (in order to benefit in-state residents, e.g.)? This doesn’t seem like a wise move to me.</p>

<p>It’s true.</p>

<p>[University</a> of Michigan - Office of Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/]University”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/)</p>

<p>[Office</a> of Undergraduate Admissions: GPA Recalculation FAQs](<a href=“http://www.admissions.umich.edu/gpa/]Office”>http://www.admissions.umich.edu/gpa/)</p>

<p>It also says they will use the weighted GPA if it is provided on the transcript, which doesn’t seem fair to me. We didn’t believe it ourselves on the Michigan forum, someone posted it a few days ago and almost nobody bought it until the official announcement was made. I had heard nothing about this even being in consideration until now.</p>

<p>USAmurray- When D toured/interviewed at Wake Forest, she was told that lots of emphasis would be placed on commumity service in admissions decisions.</p>

<p>There seems to be a lot of last-minute decisionmaking by admissions offices this year, certainly compared ot the three years (!) I’ve been on this board. Wow, UMich changing the GPA calc is huge, esp. at this stage ofc the game.</p>

<p>UChicago changed their requirements for LORs in mid-stream. I thought that was bad… <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/793454-when-did-chicago-change-there-teacher-rec-requirements.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-chicago/793454-when-did-chicago-change-there-teacher-rec-requirements.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think the UChicago gaffe is much worse than UMich. </p>

<p>Colleges don’t really have to tell you how they use the GPA in their admissions, and your GPA is what it is. However, colleges must be clear on their directions regarding LOR’s. LOR’s are among the few dynamic factors the student can still control somewhat via teacher selection.</p>

<p>CA long essay is down to under 850 words now. DS1 felt the previous version was not cohesive enough, and it strayed away from what he really wanted to project with sudden linkages to pursuits that really don’t fit well. </p>

<p>He said to me, “Dad, I just realized that my focus on writing a college essay actually tainted the purity of the essay and polluted what I really wanted to say.” He felt much better after he made the change.</p>

<p>How are the essays coming along for your kid?</p>

<p>Paper chase- when I read D’s first draft I despaired - it was so over-written and full of awkward phrases- a teenager’s idea of ‘fancy writing’. One weekend she threw it out and started over, this time writing from the heart. So far it has brought tears to everyone who has read it, but in an uplifting way. Even if it doesn’t win an acceptance, it is good to know she submitted her best work.</p>

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<p>Well put. Thanks for sharing, merryecho.</p>

<p>Year plus lurker/first time poster who has been following this interesting thread thinking of my junior. His older sibling’s results in 2008 ( 3.79 UW, 1520/2290, NMF, very competitive private high school): waitlisted 3 top 20s, accepted off the waitlist from one in May, turned it down for top 30. Higher gpa than this thread but I know well the territory of naviance you are in . . . for us it was waitlist land. Not necessarily a bad place. Vowed next time to start essays sooner, prepare more for SAT 2s.</p>

<p>S2’s CA essay is 550 words which seems pretty good since they ask for 300-500. Of course his AP Euro teacher thought it needed more descriptive details and perhaps more of a message. He thought it was pretty good, but not good enough for the top schools. OTOH he liked what son was planning to do for Georgetown (which is a completely different kettle of fish.) This teacher is really a stitch - today he was telling them how to shake hands at an interview.</p>