<p>I would say that the academic ability of students at Cornell Engineering is substantially greater than at top publics. You will find that classroom discussions and group projects are conducted at a higher level. The pace is faster. The problem sets more challenging and thought provoking. The opportunities were available at Cornell for research experience and internships even for average students. The workload at Cornell is demanding. "Work ethic" was part of the "hidden curriculum" at Cornell. The ECE department chairperson explained this to me after the graduation ceremony.</p>
<p>I am now in a PhD program at a flagship public and, as a TA for an upper division course, I notice the overall difference in students. But, the top students at this flagship public are as good as anywhere. And, they are all really great to work with. Really great kids. The faculty here are tops but I think their undergrad courses move a little slower and the level of questions and discussion is different. Still, a wonderful engineering education is available at this public.</p>
<p>By the way, I don't think Cornell will cost $140,000 after financial aid unless your family is very wealthy. My family paid about $90K out of pocket with a six figure family income.</p>
Caveat: Most of the colleges on the list are public, and all of the bolded ones are. Merit scholarships at public universities are notoriously unpredictable, even for top-notch in-state applicants.</p>
<p>I agree with collegehelp, at many top schools, they will help pay for your tuition which means that sometimes a top private school such as Cornell may be cheaper than paying out-of-state tuition at a public university. However, how much you get depends on your family income. You should ask the college for more info. </p>
<p>Vadennis I forgot to mention that you should check which engineering programs are accredited at the college. For example, I want to study civil engineering but RIT didn't even offer my major so I crossed it off my list. For a list of accredited engineering programs at each school, look at this list by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology:</p>
<p>IB, that's why I said "some", but I'm pretty sure that someone with an A average and a 2300 SAT can get a scholarship at a public school.....unless it's UC-Berkeley or UCLA or a competitive public school.</p>
<p>collegehelp, Cornell engineering sounds like such a great learning environment! that is hard to put a price tag on.</p>
<p>our son has been lucky to be in a high school like that - stimulating discussions, very bright students, very fast pace. that would be hard to give up.</p>
<p>when I mentioned the $140K that was the difference between SUNY and the $50K x 4 we expect to pay at a private - $200K less about $60K. I am glad the support goes to those who need it most, but merit help is all we would get if we do. do we have any hope of getting merit support from Cornell if he is able to get in?</p>
<p>is anyone else willing to weigh in on schools with especially stimulating classroom learning and research opportunities?</p>
<p>Hmm I'm not convinced about Case Western Reserve University. It all depends on the financial aid that they give you. There are many colleges that are better for engineering than Case. I'm not sure if Case is worth paying 40,000+ to when there are better engineering schools like RPI for about the same price and better public schools</p>
<p>If you are looking for a stimulating and engaging engineering education, I'd look at Franklin W. Olin College Of Engineering just outside of Boston (where I live). I think it's worth a shot for your son even though it's very competitive. I've heard many good things, the graduates get great jobs, the teachers are 100% there for the students not for research and plus it's FREE! The school was founded a few years ago and is modeled like Cooper Union except they want their students to take humanities classes to be well rounded and students claim that the quality of life there is way better.</p>
<p>Also, look at Harvey Mudd College and Rose-Hulman Institute Of Technology. In my opinion, Harvey Mudd has the best teachers and classroom experience out of any engineering college in the country (other than Franklin W. Olin College Of Engineering)</p>
<p>Case is a school that is far better than the ranking show. As a student at Brown whose second choice was Case and whose best friend went to Case I can tell you that it's a joke that Case engineering is ranked the same as Brown.</p>
<p>We're no slouch in engineering here like most of CC tries to pretend, but the dedication to engineering at Case is far stronger and the opportunities for undergraduates in that area are really equal to those at Brown.</p>
<p>That being said vadennis, that difference collegehelp refers to in terms of level of student and the class level is going to be true of going to any really top school versus more middle of the road schools (like the SUNYs). Does it mean much for engineering? Well, not if your goal is to go work right out after 4 years and just keep in your field and be an engineer for life and the rest of the "college" thing matters less and you're not looking to switch careers or gears. If the rest of your college experience and the level of intellectual engagement outside of engineering, and the caliber of student you'll be surrounded by, and the increased ability to work far outside your field are all important, well, that's a part of that 140k difference in my mind.</p>
<p>Btw, I'm a LI kid who's family just makes 6 figures and we're getting significant aid at an Ivy. Middle class parents tend to underestimate aid in my experience.</p>
<p>ohkid, pierre and melody, I really can't thank you enough for your feedback! The fit of a school and a student has many aspects, and I am grateful for all views. you really know your schools! I have a much better list now, and am gathering all the facts and insights on it.</p>
<p>my son will be attracted to the Olin value of humanities, as would I for him. it would be a long shot school but worth looking at. my son is a good writer and enjoys history. Carnegie Mellon seems to allow only (8) classes in anything but engineering, math, and science, which seemed low to me. One of my brothers switched out of engineering at Lehigh (long long ago) because he wanted a broader education - I only mention this because I so valued a reasonably broad education myself.</p>
<p>if you have the time to answer this, how important do you think it is to visit schools? we can traipse around on the April break, but my experience so far is that the tours give you a very cursory understanding and are mostly p.r. - fun to see but not very informative, and of course you have that subjective risk of falling in love with a campus and then getting your heart set and maybe broken. I assume you can't wait until you hear from the schools and then visit, because the turn around would be too short. any advice on that? </p>
<p>^ I've done a lot of college visits with my D, a HS junior, and we've found them very worthwhile. Yes, the tours are mostly pretty cursory and crammed with p.r., and the info sessions tend to sound alike everywhere. But there's also time you spend getting a feel for the campus and the surrounding town, visiting the student center, picking up the student newspaper, seeing what kinds of events are happening on campus and what student orgs are active, perhaps engaging a student or two in conversation in the dining hall, and getting to know the surrounding area on your own. depending on the school and the timing you can also sometimes visit a class or do an overnight stay in a residence hall. </p>
<p>Through this process D has found lots of things to DISLIKE about schools that otherwise sounded great on paper. And she's picked up on some unique or especially appealing aspects of some other schools that don't necessarily come through in the statistical data or even in their promotional materials, which one tends to read with a jaundiced eye. It's also helped give her greater clarity about the KIND of school she's looking for, and programs or activities that if missing would make any school a less than ideal fit. I'd say that three schools have elevated themselves to the top of her wish list, and none of the three would have been there without the visit. Two of the three are low reaches but the third is a solid match or even a low match, so we're pretty confident she'll get into at least one and possibly more; she wouldn't be disappointed with any of the three. (She's also got three or four other reaches and another low match, but they're distinctly secondary preferences at this point; even the reachiest of them would be beaten out by her three favorites). The visits also revealed characteristics of her top choice schools that led her to another school that shares many of the same characteristics but is quite a bit less selective, so that's now on her list as a safety---again, a school she might not have discovered had it not been for the visits to other, similar, but more selective schools.</p>
<p>The downside: it's expensive and time-consuming, consequently not for everyone, especially in this economy.</p>
<p>If nothing else it's important to visit some places to get a sense of what to look for in colleges. I think it was hugely valuable in helping me to frame how to think about comparing one school to another.</p>
<p>It was a while ago, so it's hard for me to remember those first few tours, but I do know that it was helpful. For me, tours helped more to exclude places than to make me fall in love with them.</p>
<p>If you're interested in Olin, you really should visit. You need to get a feel for the size of the campus and student body. Some students don't like a large school like OSU, others love it. . . same w/ Olin at the opposite end of the size range.</p>
<p>thanks for all the advice! I see we'll be visiting some more schools in April. Pierre, the very best of luck to you - I hope you get Olin.</p>
<p>btw, I found this list in another thread here at cc and I thought it useful if only showing average numbers for merit $$. I pass it along to families like mine who might be reading this:</p>
<p>Our child has been accepted to Drexel, Rochester Institute of Technology, and SUNY Buffalo - undecided engineering major. Waiting to hear from SUNY Binghamton, Stonybrook, U. COnn, and U. Delaware.
We are NY residents.
How do you weigh up the quality of the education offered, the job opportunities post-grad., versus the widely different costs?
Advice appreciated.</p>
<p>NYU<em>poly is in the top 5 in the United States for an average salary after graduation....including all the ivy leagues (of course im talking only about engineering majors) source
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NYU_poly is in the top 5 in the United States for an average salary after graduation....including all the ivy leagues
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<p>I guess it's just a coincidence that NYC is one of the most expensive places in the country to live in right? You really cannot compare schools that send kids to all corners of the country with ones that don't.</p>
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my son will be attracted to the Olin value of humanities, as would I for him... my son is a good writer and enjoys history. Carnegie Mellon seems to allow only (8) classes in anything but engineering, math, and science, which seemed low to me.
<p>This is generally the case for engineering education at most of the top programs. However, assuming your son comes in with some AP credits, he should have enough extra credits to explore humanities subjects he enjoys.</p>
<p>Some students are able to carry more credits per term so they can take grad level courses or engage in research.</p>
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How many are you 'allowed' to take at Olin? I counted no more than 8 on their sample curriculum chart (Olin College : Academics : Mechanical Engineering).
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<p>Hmm... I'm counting 6, unless you use your elective for humanities courses.</p>
<p>Also consider where and what you want to do after college. For instance here in Texas, the University of Texas at Austin and Texas A&M literally dominate (and thanks to God I got almost a full ride to the former for Mechanical engineering :)) so if you want to work within a specific state there is even more incentive not to go to an elite school.
But if you are unsure the likes of Cornell, Berkely, Stanford, UIUC, and even UT-Austin are renowned the nation over.</p>
<p>Long Island Mom here. No need-based aid for us either, so S applied to SUNY's (Bing and UB though not Stony Brook- too close too home) and other publics and privates. Accepted to both SUNY's.</p>
<p>VTech is not "cheap" as a poster stated. Great engineering school, but poor merit aid for OOS and they don't tell you the merit amt until after the May 1 deadline. Also, can be hard in engineering to keep the GPA up to retain it.</p>
<p>Berkeley is $45,000 a year or more just for tuition/fees/rm and board. No merit given to my college age son who was valedictorian and steller stats.</p>
<p>SUNY Buffalo is ranked in the top 100 schools and your son will likely get 1/2-full tuition scholarship. We got 3K. Your son should get that or more. Definitely a good safety for him. Apply for the scholarship on the site- we didn't even realize it was that highly ranked (always think of Binghamton's reputation so we never checked into app;ying for scholarships, but with your sons stats, he can apply and should get full tuition. Nothing wrong with going to a SUNY. (Older son was offered merit at Binghamton too.)</p>
<p>Also, try RPI and WPI. Should get great merit from them too. URochester, Delaware. There are plenty of schools for him. Michigan- likely accepted but you will not likely get money, Michigan State- definitely in and you'll be awarded all sorts of perks and in-state tuition with invite to get more money. good program too. Miami- likely full tuition merit.</p>
<p>Definitely apply to lots and make sure you include lots of privates, that's who has the money!!!!</p>
<p>Your son has great stats so he should do well. Good luck.</p>
