<p>Just found this program referencing admission to Texas medical schools for eco disadvantaged high school seniors, thru undergrad, to med school..guaranteed.
My son, naturally, wouldn't qualifly as his parents have been financially responsible to plan for college for many years.
Looking at the entry requirements for the program (SAT/ACT, GPA, etc) just plain makes me mad. My son's scores are well above the required scores, and he's worked very had to achieve them.
Is this what training doctors is coming to? Would the general public accept this recruiting technique if that's how we selected pilots to fly us around?</p>
<p>i think that some of the programs are a joke. they are geared toward the disadvantaged by lowering their standards by a whole lot. i seriously do not believe that someone who scores an average score on the SAT should be a doctor, even though they are “disadvantaged”. Those who are disadvantaged will work as hard, possibly even harder, to be the best.</p>
<p>Welcome to the world of admission to medical school. You will learn the term “URM” quite well, which does not include Asian or White.</p>
<p>Although to correct what you said, the quality of a doctor or ability to get through medical school is not really well correlated with the SAT. It’s more correlative with the MCAT (and no, the SAT and MCAT really don’t go together) or undergraduate science GPA, although I know tons of people who didn’t do stellar on the MCAT and did spectacular on the USMLE Step 1, as those 2 exams also test different things.</p>
<p>The JAMP program now has a science GPA requirement as well as requiring taking of the MCAT.</p>
<p>I do think it’s a little wrong to put down people who aren’t rich and who truly are disadvantaged and don’t have money to pay for SAT prep classes to jack up their scores. My guess, is however, that if you wanted to you are well enough off that you could pay your entire son’s undergraduate education without him having to take one loan. Sorry, but why would I give a spot to your son, when there are those that don’t have those resources?</p>
<p>The JAMP program is esp. made for those who don’t have the resources, and there are other BA/MD programs in Texas that rely on merit so your son should have no problem like at Baylor, Texas Tech, UT-San Antonio, and UTMB.</p>
<p>Which shows you know nothing about medical school admissions process, if you think an SAT score is indicative of whether one should “be a doctor”, and that you obviously don’t know how “disadvantaged” is defined by them. </p>
<p>Also you have to “score not less than the mean for the state of Texas” for the SAT/ACT, in order to be in the program with the specific undergraduate institution you choose.</p>
<p>You should probably think before you type.</p>
<p>From JAMP website:
What is considered economically disadvantaged?</p>
<p>“The definition of economically disadvantaged is financial eligibility for Pell grant or an Estimated Family Contribution (EFC) up to 8000, calculated from the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FASFA), unless other evidence of economic disadvantaged status exists. You must complete the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) to determine your EFC.”
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<p>a.k.a. to qualify for a Pell grant you have to be ridiculously poor in income.</p>
<p>Sorry, but medicine shouldn’t be just limited to only trust fund babies or those who can pay directly out of pocket.</p>
<p>I did go a bit overbaord with my statements. I was just frustrated that I, as an out-of-state student from Nebraska, could not apply to some ridiculously easy to get in in-state programs. Baylor College of Medicine is one of the best in the US, and I feel like I should have at least the opportunity to apply.</p>
<p>I know I could, but the standards of Rice/Baylor is not the same as JAMP.</p>
<p>It’s ok, I understand the frustration esp. if you’re from Nebraska in which the only medical schools there are Creighton (which I hear is not too good) and University of Nebraska. Just be aware that those requirements for JAMP are the minimum requirements.</p>
<p>Texas is also very in-state protective of their medical schools including Baylor College of Medicine (it’s technically “private”, but it does get state funding, hence why its in-state tuition is similar to other Texas state medical schools). If I’m not mistakened, it’s mandated that most of the medical student spots in Texas medical schools be filled by Texas residents, Baylor included.</p>
<p>In all honesty, if my parents had to be ridiculously poor, just for an early acceptance into Baylor College of Medicine, thanks, but no thanks. Those people have much bigger problems than what normal anal premeds whine about than just school (like food, shelter, clothing, etc.), esp. with this economy and I wouldn’t trade that for the world and I go to UPenn’s medical school.</p>
<p>If any factor I would use to give a student a bump up, it’s their economics (which affects their life every single day), rather than programs that use affirmative action based on one’s race/URM status.</p>
Very wrong. Rice is a private school. They have no preference over in-state students. As a matter of fact, they give preferences to out of state students. If two students, one in-state and one out of state, have the same stats and are competing for the last spot, the out of state student would get it because there are so many in-state students applying.
The majority of the 14 people accepted are out of state. And usually there isn’t really more than 2-3 instate (sometimes less).
Rice/Baylor does NOT take financial aid into consideration at all. Even if you are poor, you wouldn’t get preference over somebody who is rice and vice versa.
Instate students DO NOT have an advantages nor do the low income students.</p>
<p>haha I know all about you. You’re famous on the UMKC thread. You dropped out of UMKC because you feel like the program is too expensive and is not just worth it.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, not everyone could score a 37 on the MCAT (or was it higher?) and be accepted into UPenn med school. You are at the top of pile, capable of getting into Harvard Med.</p>
<p>In contrast, I would be happy to get into ANY combined programs. A med school is a med school, even if their match list sucks. Besides, it all comes down to the student’s USMLE score, so it is mostly dependent on the student himself, not on the med school’s reputation (im probably gonna get flamed for this).</p>
<p>cdz512, this is what happens when you ASSume things from what you read. Where did I say I was talking about the Rice/Baylor program only? I already said that Baylor College of Medicine is private (although technically). However, it DOES get state funding as you can see here when later in the Texas legislature they did in fact try (key word here being “try”) to cut state funding to it: <a href=“http://www.window.state.tx.us/tpr/btm/btmed/ed21.html[/url]”>http://www.window.state.tx.us/tpr/btm/btmed/ed21.html</a>.</p>
<p>This is why Baylor’s tuition is on par with other state schools. Let me repeat: IT DOES GET STATE FUNDING. If Baylor was in fact completely private, with no state funding, like most private medical schools, then there would be no such thing as in-state/out-of-state tuition right?: [Medical</a> School - Baylor College of Medicine - Houston, Texas](<a href=“http://www.bcm.edu/medschool/]Medical”>http://www.bcm.edu/medschool/) AND [Tuition</a> Status (Texas Residency) - Office of the Registrar - Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas](<a href=“http://www.bcm.edu/registrar/?PMID=7434]Tuition”>http://www.bcm.edu/registrar/?PMID=7434) AND [url=<a href=“USA University College Directory - U.S. University Directory - State Universities and College Rankings”>Baylor College of Medicine (BCM) Introduction and Academics - Houston, TX]Baylor</a> College of Medicine Information, Introduction, Academics, Unique Programs, Admissions, Students, Alumni, History, Campus, Students, Faculty, Address, and Tuition<a href=“See%20under%20Student%20Tuition%20Costs%20for%20Professional%20Fields”>/url</a>. When it’s partially funded by the state, the state legislature can make some rules regarding admissions. The fact is that if you take each class of ALL the medical students at Baylor - the huge majority ARE Texas medical students.</p>
<p>Also, where do I say that finances is considered in the Rice/Baylor program? I was clearly talking about the economics consideration in JAMP program what the original poster was talking about.</p>
<p>I was talking about the OVERALL Baylor College of Medicine program, not just the Bachelor/MD route through Rice (there are also other Bachelor/MD routes not just through Rice for Baylor, as you can see from the site I posted). While the Bachelor/MD program at Rice may take mostly out-of-staters (which they can, as Rice University is completely private with absolutely no state funding), the overall M.D. program including the 4+4 students, HEAVILY favors Texas residents.</p>
<p>I don’t know what you mean by “famous”, unless you mean me posting a lot on that thread. You obviously went through and found my very first post - although the reasons you attribute to me are wrong. It seems like you’re getting your reading skills from cdz512, as you would see that I was an in-stater for that program and that tuition there is actually cheaper than what I am paying at UPenn’s med school.</p>
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<p>While that’s nice of you to compliment me (my MCAT score you’re referring to is on that post), it’s called hard work and dedication, and putting in the hours needed, not sprinkling magic pixie dust. I put in hard work in all my courses and had organization and good study skills. I went to my state flagship undergrad. I used MCAT books along with my classes, rather than years later when I would have forgotten the info learned in class. Those who do bad in General Bio I and II, Chem I and II, etc. will do bad on the MCAT. That’s not an anomaly - it’s logic.</p>
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<p>It’s obvious you didn’t read my full post in that thread regarding “A med school is a med school, even if their match list sucks”. If you think that a USMLE score is mostly dependent on the student - you are kidding yourself. If you think it all comes down to a USMLE score when it comes to evaluating applicants for a residency - you are definitely kidding yourself, and you show that you do not know about the residency match application process.</p>
<p>Yes, you do have to put in the hard work, but the education received at different medical schools is very different in quality esp. with respect to preparing their students for the boards. That’s why Baylor’s average is much higher than most Texas schools and in general: [Success</a> Indicators - Medical School - Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas](<a href=“http://www.bcm.edu/medschool/successindicators.html]Success”>http://www.bcm.edu/medschool/successindicators.html). It seems like you have already thrown in the towel as a high schooler, which is ridiculous, and convincing you otherwise is pointless, to where you are prepared to go to any medical school, that would entice with you a carrot of early acceptance, bc of the fear that you have no chance to get into medical school so you’re looking for an easy way out. I’m not flaming you, but you will regret this thinking much later, as many on CC have talked about their experiences at places like UMKC, Temple, Drexel, etc.</p>
<p>I am not as stubborn as you think. Who doesn’t want to go to a good med school? Heck, if I can get into Harvard med, I will go there. I plan on going to a combined program, but if the med school is not as good as I think it is, I will take the MCAT and apply to better med schools (i think most programs are non-binding). </p>
<p>The reason I’m so afraid is the fickle nature of the med school admission process. I have heard some horror stories on people who dont get into med schools even with excellent stats. And I am very afraid of the MCAT. I have seen the questions and they are pretty scary. My sister is currently studying for it and she is getting pretty frustrated. </p>
<p>Plus, not all combined program med schools are low-tier (although pretty hard to get into). Brown, Northwestern, Rochester, and Case Western are some high-level med schools. If I do get into one of them, I will definitely go.</p>
<p>Once again you are not understanding so I will explain again.</p>
<p>Realize that the number of combined Bachelor/MD students comprise, at a maximum, 5% of all medical students. There are medical schools that end up discontinuing these type of programs due to consistently lackluster medical school grades and board scores by those students - example: U of Michigan’s med school Interflex program. Norcalguy also had a link from NW about their HPME program, as apparently those students aren’t doing as well in med school courses and boards, in comparison to their 4+4 counterparts at NW Feinberg.</p>
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<p>First, not all combined programs are amenable to applying out. Some of them have you skip some of the premed requirements, thus you would not be able to prepare for the MCAT at the same time. UMKC is one example. At Boston University’s program and SLU you give up your spot, if you apply out. You can’t use them as a “backup”. Also, realize that many (not all) of these programs have usually low-tier/unheard of undergraduate institutions associated with them. I’m not talking about state flagship schools. I’m talking about schools like: “St. Bonaventure University” or “Union College”, where most wouldn’t apply except that there happens to be a Bachelor/MD program there. Let’s take a Texas example: With everything else being the same, to a medical school admissions committee there’s a difference between a student applying from University of Texas at Austin and a student applying from Paul Quinn College. So yes, your undergraduate institution does play a slight role as it puts your GPA in context, in case you decide to apply out. The point is to get out of one situation (no MCAT), you’re jumping into an even worse situation (a medical school that may not prepare you well for the boards).</p>
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<p>As I have said in my posts, as well as if you see posts from The Scunyon, you would see that this is the usual hysteria that envelops high school students who then end up entering these programs. I know bc I was one of them. They are so afraid based on what they hear or see other people’s experiences or them freaking out and that’s the reason they enter these programs. They hear how hard the MCAT is and freak. If you think the MCAT is difficult, you haven’t seen anything yet. Wait till you see the steps of the USMLE and it will make the MCAT look like a cakewalk. You can skip the MCAT but you can’t skip licensing exams. Realize you have to learn the knowledge first for the MCAT exam before you look at questions (I’m talking about the science sections, not Verbal Reasoning - those verbal passages are to test how you do with information likely that you’ve never seen before in undergraduate courses - in fact many of them are information learned in medical school or you may be exposed to as a biology major). If you’ve taken AP Chemistry, AP Biology, and AP Physics B and covered all chapters in their respective textbooks, the questions are doable. If not, then of course, they’ll seem hard. At least by the 4+4 method, you’re getting to complete the requirements as you’re comfortable doing it, with the major YOU want (many programs cut the majors you can do - bc they shorten the undergrad part), and you get into the medical school you get into, rather than not trying at all and settling from the beginning. I didn’t know beforehand when I left UMKC that I would get into Penn. I also got into my own college’s med school as well and would have been just as happy going there. You need to see the [MDapplicants.com</a> - Home](<a href=“http://www.mdapplicants.com%5DMDapplicants.com”>http://www.mdapplicants.com) website to get a better picture and see the amount of financial aid people get in comparison to those who enter combined Bachelor/MD programs - for example, in the George Washington University 7 year BA/MD program ([BA/MD</a> Program - GW Doctor of Medicine Admissions](<a href=“Welcome | School of Medicine and Health Sciences”>Welcome | School of Medicine and Health Sciences)) you pay $56,329 starting from the very first year you enter the program which is more expensive than even the most expensive Ivy League medical school.</p>
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<p>I didn’t say that all combined Bachelor/MD programs are middle to low-tier. I said most. Why do you think most schools (both top notch private as well as middle of the pack medical schools) or even your own state medical school - University of Nebraska don’t offer these type of programs? It’s bc the pool in the 4+4 crowd is usually better and more of a safe bet when it comes to students matriculating and graduating from medical school. There’s a reason the undergraduate experience along with premed requirements are spread out over 4 years with summers off rather than crammed with no summers off. Obviously, the examples you mention are not the ones I’m talking about as low tier - although there are some more top tier ones to add to that list - Penn/Jefferson, UPitt, Baylor, Boston U, WashU, etc. Many of these schools also have you take several SAT II exams in addition, and expect a heavily expanded medical CV as well. So essentially they expect a medical school application CV as a high schooler.</p>
<p>MD2B2012, thanks for useful post. You added Penn/Jefferson in top tier. I think you said somewhere you are at Upenn med school so you may know about Philly med schools. Penn/Jefferson is 6 years, but that aside, is it top tier in the sense its residency placement is high in competitive specialties? What is its local rep? It’s a very big school so it’s hard to tell what % of students do well. Also wondering if keeping the required GPA/MCAT at PSU is too competitive, or if doing well at Jefferson is harder because of its size?</p>
<p>This is in response to the 1st post about the programs for disadvantaged students to become doctors. Who better to go back to these communities & serve & understand the issues that affect this population? It gives hope & pride to a community when a local student is chosen to become a doctor. </p>
<p>If you have been saving for college then you do not qualify for these programs. These people are barely surviving paying for rent. College is a dream not usually a reality for them. This does not mean that they are not bright, only that they usually do not get coaching or good teachers or opportunities. These type of academic programs can look past the actual scores & grades to see potential. Then with academic guidance these students are able to match/exceed many of their college/med school peers. </p>
<p>And from what I have seen of them they are usually quite humbled and dedicated to medicine. They are also seemingly truly grateful for the amazing opportunity bestowed upon them.</p>