Univ. of Houston vs UH Victoria for Computer Science

<p>Hey guys, this is actually my first post on the forum. I'm currently at a community college planning to transfer into a university for CS. I've been reading the past discussions about ABET accreditation not needed for CS and was wondering if you guys can help out on which school to choose.</p>

<p>I plan on applying to UH for CS(Software design option), the program has ABET: </p>

<p>UH</a> Undergraduate Catalog: Computer Science Major</p>

<p>but I'm also trying to save money and minimize my student loans so I'm wondering if
UH-Victoria's program will be enough for employment(software development) even though it isn't ABET accredited:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.uhv.edu/asa/pdf/11-12._BS-CS_Degree_Worksheet.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.uhv.edu/asa/pdf/11-12._BS-CS_Degree_Worksheet.pdf&lt;/a>
University</a> of Houston-Victoria | Computer Science</p>

<p>I just wanted to get some input from you guys here and thanks in advance!</p>

<p>Bump…no advice or opinions at all? What should i consider when making a choice between programs?</p>

<p>ABET doesn’t mean much as far as CS. In looking at the curriculum for UHV, it has the CS core that is needed: Algorithms, Data Structures, Organization (Structure) of Programming Languages and Operating Systems. Plus, it is good that Database Systems is REQUIRED since most software jobs center around the manipulation (programming), distribution (networks) and storage/retrieval (databases) of data.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice, I just needed some validation from experts since UHV isn’t a known school compared to UH.</p>

<p>I am probably in the minority here, but I would urge caution when considering schools that aren’t accredited in CS, particularly schools that aren’t well-known for having quality programs.</p>

<p>That said, the curriculum looks pretty good… no glaring omissions.</p>

<p>Thanks aegrisomnia but I was reading ucbalumnus’ post about the courses needed and I couldn’t find some of the following courses for UHV:</p>

<p>Theory of computation, automata, and languages
Compilers
cryptography</p>

<p>I’m setting up a meeting with a counselor to ask for those course above.</p>

<p>I understand what Aegrisomnia is saying but that really applies to the other engineering majors. The main reason why ABET does not mean as much in CS is because CS is not part of the “engineering” college in every school. In quite a few schools, the CS department is either part of the Math department or it’s own stand-alone department…both under the school’s College of Arts & Sciences. ABET only accredits programs in engineering.</p>

<p>Because of that…it is important to make sure you are taking the same core courses as your fellow CS grads from other schools.</p>

<p>It seems like a good school for CS in my opinion. CS does not have to be in the engineering department to be good.</p>

<p>I recommend the ABET accredited school and IMO ABET does matters a lot although employers do not care about it. It matters because it is an indicator the college will prepare you for real world CS jobs. I have not look at the other colleges but when a CS degree is part of the liberal art dept it is usually(NOT ALWAYS) a joke and you will graduate without projects and barely knowing anything…</p>

<p>UH Victoria almost a brand new school. If you have a chance to attend the main campus UH, it is more preferable. some say the one in clear lake is better for computer science since it is dominated by NASA.</p>

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<p>Actually, there are some very good CS degree programs without ABET accreditation (Berkeley L&S CS, Stanford, CMU). However, there are also some very poor ones. For most purposes, ABET accreditation sets a minimum standard; without it, one has to do more evaluation of the individual degree program to check the courses and curriculum.</p>

<p>ABET accreditation per se is more important if the goal is to go into patent law.</p>

<p>Re: the “missing” courses in #6</p>

<p>Note that theory of computation and compilers are typically more important to those going to graduate school than those going into most industry software jobs. Cryptography in-depth may be relevant or not depending on what you go into, for either graduate school or industry, although a basic level of understanding of security and cryptography is a good idea to have in any case.</p>

<p>I thought I did see a “Theory of computation, automata, and languages” course in the curriculum. Isn’t that what “COSC 3340. Introduction to Automata and Computability” is?</p>

<p>As far as compilers and cryptography are concerned… these are nice to have, but by no means necessary components of a CS education.</p>

<p>@ucbalumnus, thanks for the clarification.</p>

<p>@aegrisomnia, COSC 3340 is for the UH curriculum not for UHV</p>

<p>@texaspg, yea I heard about clear-lake but it’s a bit far from where I stay.</p>

<p>@edumacation91 Sorry for the confusion. Checking the UHV curriculum, it does indeed seem to be lacking in some respects, especially when compared to the UH curriculum. This and, to a lesser extend, the lack of ABET accreditation, in my opinion, should be something you take into account when selecting a school. It certainly shouldn’t be the only consideration, but ABET accreditations don’t exist for no reason, and the differences between UH’s curriculum and UHV’s curriculum don’t count for nothing.</p>

<p>The big thing with ABET accreditation for other non-CS engineering areas is that it is needed for certain licenses and certifications. </p>

<p>In the software engineering world, you do NOT need ABET accreditation for be certified in Linux, or Java or Oracle or Hadoop/Cloud Computing.</p>

<p>In 20+ years of software engineering, not one recruiter or headhunter asked about my currculum’s ABET accreditation…because…I never actually majored in CS. My primary major was Mathematics. Software engineering has WAY too many professionals from too many non-CS majors to worry about ABET accreditation. Just make sure you take:</p>

<p>Object-Oriented Programming I (Java or C++)
Object-Oriented Programming II (Java or C++)
Discrete Structures
Algorithms
Data Structures
Organization of Programming Languages
Operating Systems
Database Systems
Computer Networks</p>

<p>…And you should be OK. Theory of Computation and Automata theory is not going to benefit much in the applied world. It’s a good course…and good for preparing for the Compiler design courses but not much else. Plus, there are only about a grand total of 5 compiler design jobs in all of the USA.</p>

<p>I think that analysis sort of misses my point, GLOBALTRAVELER.</p>

<p>Presented with a cake, I would not ask whether a professional chef had baked it before taking a bite. However, if there’s something wrong with the cake that I can detect (perhaps it’s visibly deteriorated, or perhaps I can smell something unpalatable or it looks very unsightly… or perhaps I examine the list of ingredients and see anchovies), I might reasonably be expected to decline to eat.</p>

<p>Similarly, presented with a candidate, I would not ask whether the candidate went to an ABET-accredited school before hiring. However, if there’s something wrong with the candidate that I can detect (perhaps I look at the transcript and notice missing courses, and don’t recognize the program as being a quality program, and the candidate’s knowledge in some areas is lacking), I might reasonably be expected to decline to hire.</p>

<p>What does ABET mean, at the end of the day? It’s not for employers. It’s for students - students who want to protect against uncertainty, to make sure they’re competitive, and make sure they’re exposed to more or less the same subjects. Forget about an employer hedging bets - it’s a valid thing for students to think about.</p>

<p>Aegrisomnia…</p>

<p>With all the other engineering disciplines, you would be 100% correct…including computer engineering. For computer science, ABET would not matter. Even if YOU were to screen candidates for ABET, you would be the less than 5%. That same CS grad can just walk across the street and be on another employer’s payroll that day.</p>

<p>There are not enough grads compared to the number of positions for employers to use ABET accreditation for software positions.</p>

<p>Another thing is that CS only has 4 required “core” courses that is needed to attend most graduate CS programs. That’s right, your Physics grad with 3.0+ GPA and who took as electives Algorithms, Data Structures, Organization of Programming Languages and Operating Systems can get into the grad CS program. Last time I checked, Physics, Math, and other sciences are not ABET accredited.</p>

<p>Most CS interviews are basically going to ask (and probably test) your knowledge of certain languages, operating systems commands and latest tools. I highly doubt there will be questions about turing machines and automata.</p>

<p>@globaltraveler</p>

<p>thanks for the detailed response about the necessary CS courses and a bit about the industry.</p>

<p>@GLOBALTRAVELER, Some interview questions at google actually ask question from automata and turing machines. As well as intensive algorithm questions. Also most comp eng end up doing on the software side and accreditation doesnt matter for them either unless they want to do hardware which is in low demand. How can a physics major go to grad school with just those courses and expect to do well? do you know how hard graduate CS classes are? I heard CS grad programs are strict, they will not let you take most grad classes with just that. Other CS classes are not waste of time.</p>

<p>Also ppl without college degree or unrelated fields doing software engineering bc there is NOT enough CS applicants to fill all the positions If software engineering was in low demand, there would no way someone without a cs or years of experience would land a software engineering job. Go to indeed.com and search for computer science vs any other engineering or science. Again CS classes and the projects we make are not a waste of time. Thats like a CS major with physics minor taking physics jobs. The only way that could happen is there was more physics jobs than the actual number of physics majors</p>