<p>So I'm a pretty smart kid that's applying to a bunch of schools throughout the nation but I'm looking for close to home safety schools that I wouldn't hate going to, thoughts?</p>
<p>Check out Carleton College. But it’s pretty competitive so it’s probably not a safety. </p>
<p>Why not just apply to your state flagship as a safety?</p>
<p>Big universities:</p>
<p>University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
University of Wisconsin, Madison (almost in-state tuition due to agreement between the two states)</p>
<p>Small colleges:</p>
<p>Carleton College
St. Olaf College
University of Minnesota, Morris</p>
<p>Whether any of these might be a safety depends on your academic record and net price limit.</p>
<p>Macalester (in St. Paul) is also a very fine school.</p>
<p>What do you think you’ll hate?</p>
<p>Hard to know what’s a safety for you without knowing your stats, what you’re interested in studying, how much you’re willing and able to pay, and what might cause you to like or “hate” a school.</p>
<p>My D2 is planning to use our in-state public flagship, the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities, and the University of Wisconsin-Madison as her dual safeties. They’re certainly affordable (Wisconsin is the same price as Minnesota for Minnesota residents), it’s certainly possible for a motivated student to get an excellent education at either school, and both are big enough and diverse enough that anyone can find an appropriate social niche. Stats-wise, she looks like a shoo-in at either school. </p>
<p>She is also planning to apply to the University of Michigan–not exactly a safety but at least a strong match for her. Her reasoning: she’d prefer to go to a top LAC, but if she doesn’t get into the LACs on her list and she’s going to end up at a big public university, she’d rather be at Michigan than either Wisconsin or Minnesota, both for the academics (especially in some of the fields she’s interested in) and because she prefers Ann Arbor to Madison or Dinkytown. In terms of stats she’s a very strong candidate for Michigan, and she’s a double legacy–something that (unlike some publics) Michigan does consider. Michigan would be by far the most expensive of the three, but she’s going to be full-pay wherever she goes, and even at full OOS tuition Michigan is still several thousand dollars cheaper than the LACs she’ll be applying to. That works for us. I had a great experience as a Michigan undergrad, and I do believe it’s a place that offers extraordinary academic and intellectual resources; I’m not going to deny my D the opportunities I had in order to save on tuition by having her go to Minnesota or Wisconsin if she has that choice. But I recognize that not everyone is in a financial position to make that same choice. My best guess is that the end of the day, D2 will end up at one of her fancy LACs (and we’ll end up paying even more than we’d pay to send her to Michigan). But it’s reassuring to know she has quality back-up options.</p>
<p>From another thread by the OP:
I agree we need to know if there are cost constraints, but the OP has good chances at pretty much anywhere.</p>
<p>
Why isn’t your daughter considering the Ivies, Chicago, Duke, Stanford or Northwestern? They offer the best of both worlds: excellent undergraduate focus, competitive financial aid, motivated student bodies and faculty at the top of their game in virtually every field.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>She’s looked at those schools and doesn’t much like them. She’d much prefer to be at a top LAC because she prefers the more intimate environment, smaller classes, closer relationships with professors, and singular undergraduate focus. And there are particular things she doesn’t like about many of the schools you mention: Northwestern, Cornell, and Dartmouth are too dominated by their respective Greek scenes for her tastes, Brown too unstructured with its open curriculum, Columbia too rigid and pedagogically conservative with its core curriculum, Chicago too into academic masochism (every student we met boasted about the insane workload). The only Ivy she’s planning to apply to is Yale; she really likes the way it’s organized into smaller residential colleges providing a more LAC-like experience, but even with that it may not be her number one choice.</p>
<p>
Undergraduate focus*: not so much. The top LACs are far more undergraduate-focused. Faculty at top private universities do just as much research and spend just as much time on graduate education as their counterparts at top publics. A lot of the top private universities also rely heavily on TAs, and they have far more large classes than LACs. At Princeton, 11.2% of the classes have 50 or more students; at Cornell it’s 18.6%. At those levels, the median student might easily be spending more time in large (50+) classes than in small (<20) classes. Think about the math: it takes 50 student registrations to fill a class of 50, 75 student registrations to fill a class of 75, 100 student registrations to fill a class of 100. By contrast, each small (<20) class absorbs at most 19 student registrations, and probably the average is closer to 12 or 13. Cornell has one class that enrolls 1300 students each time it’s offered. Just think about that: it would take at least 69 classes of <20 to match the number of students registered for just that one class, and probably more like 100. Not all the big classes are that big, of course, but I’ll bet the average size of the classes of 50+ is closer to 80 or 100 students; if that’s the case, then students at Cornell are almost certainly spending more time in large than in small (<20) classes which make up 54.2% of all the classes at Cornell. In contrast, at D2’s four (currently) most-preferred LACs, the percentage of large (>50) classes is 2.9%, 2.8%, 2.6%, and 0.3%, respectively. D1 is currently attending another LAC where 0.3% of the classes are 50+. Halfway through her sophomore year, the largest class she’s taken so far had 25 students; most are 11 or 12. </p>
<p>Competitive financial aid: Fine for those who qualify, but my D will be a full-pay, so need-based FA (the only kind most of the schools you mention offer) is irrelevant for us. D2 would almost certainly qualify for a merit award at our in-state flagship, further reducing its already modest cost, which means bottom line she’d get more money from our public flagship than from Yale. That’s not an overriding consideration for us; we’re prepared to pay full ticket, and we’re fortunate to be in a position to do so. By the way, need-based FA at the top LACs is also “competitive” for those who need it. </p>
<p>Motivated student bodies: the student bodies at the top LACs are just as academically motivated as those at top private universities.</p>
<p>Faculty at the top of their game in virtually every field: The top LACs have outstanding faculties, too; the difference is that at the LACs, undergraduate education is their #1 priority, not second (after research) or third (after research and graduate education). That’s not to say they don’t also pursue research and scholarship; my D1 is currently attending a top LAC and I’ve been really impressed with the scholarly credentials and accomplishments of her professors. But it’s just a different environment: they’re all very clear that the institution’s raison d’etre is to teach undergraduates, and that’s without question their highest priority.</p>
<p>My D1 was much the same as D2. She had a couple of Ivies on her list, didn’t much care for most of them, and never actually applied to any of them (even though she would have been competitive) because her first choice was an outstanding, highly academically-oriented LAC where she was accepted ED. I have no problem with other people making other choices, but as strange as it may seem to the prestige-obsessed, the Ivies aren’t everyone’s cup of tea.</p>
<p>OK, I know what you’re thinking: so why the big publics if D2’s preferred LACs don’t work out? Well, it’s because she’s looking for safeties. I think she has a good shot at getting into some of the best LACs, including some at the very top of her list; she also has some slightly less selective LACs on her list which are looking like safeties, or at most low matches, assuming she continues to do well in her studies. But I think it’s also wise to apply to our in-state public flagship as the ultimate fallback; and once she’s doing that it’s a no-brainer to add Wisconsin which is available to her at the same price under MN-WI tuition reciprocity and is arguably a better school in some of the fields she’s most interested in—and to her taste a more desirable college-town setting, though that’s a matter of personal preference. And once she’s gotten that far, adding Michigan, an even better school which stats-wise looks like a match or even low match, and where she’s a double legacy also makes some sense; she’d rather end up there than at Wisconsin or Minnesota if her LACs don’t pan out. Do I think she’ll end up at a big public? No, I think she’ll likely end up at one of her top-choice LACs, or barring that at a slightly less selective LAC. But she’s got the safety waterfront covered. And there’s no sense applying to the likes of Chicago, Duke, Stanford, or Dartmouth if she really doesn’t care for those schools (she doesn’t) and since they wouldn’t be safeties in any event. Besides, she honestly thinks she’d be happier in Madison or Ann Arbor than at some of the schools you name, prestige notwithstanding.</p>
<p>Was University of Minnesota, Morris, under consideration as a “safety LAC”?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not for my D. Not a great curricular fit, for one thing; D2 is into international relations/international studies, not exactly Minnesota-Morris’s strong suite. If anything, they’ve positioned themselves as a place for environmental studies, though of course that’s not their exclusive focus. We’re thinking that based on stats (including coursework she’s already doing at Minnesota-Twin Cities as a HS junior and senior under a state program that pays for qualified HS students to take college classes) D2 is a likely candidate for the Minnesota-Twin Cities Honors College, which would put her in with higher-stats peers than Morris attracts.</p>
<p>Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack the OP’s thread.</p>
<p>Here’s what I don’t understand. How is it that a “pretty smart kid” doesn’t have the wherewithal to look at one of the many college guides in print and online to find safeties in Minnesota and nearby that “don’t suck”? I’m no fuddy-duddy, really. But, really.</p>
<p>I’m with you sweetmarie. And it’s certainly not an uncommon occurrence on CC.</p>
<p>It’s the spoon fed generation.</p>
<p>*So I’m a pretty smart kid that’s applying to a bunch of schools throughout the nation but I’m looking for close to home safety schools that I wouldn’t hate going to, thoughts? *</p>
<p>Are you looking for safeties???</p>
<p>What is your major or career goal?</p>
<p>any financial constraints or will your parents pay for wherever you go?</p>
<p>As a NMF, you have options for safety schools.</p>