<p>I am a non traditional student looking to complete his BA in either one of these two schools. Which one seems like the more viable option? UPenn seems to integrate the General Studies students far better than the Extension school. Although, who would pass up Harvard, especially for the price the Extension School offers? </p>
<p>It’s a tough decision. Any advice?</p>
<p>**Oh, and on a side note, I am not trying to say that these schools are a substitute for the real deal degree.</p>
<p>Columbia has one as well just for some info wise.</p>
<p>"Oh, and on a side note, I am not trying to say that these schools are a substitute for the real deal degree"</p>
<p>-Don't downplay education! These programs exist for a reason....</p>
<p>IMHO, the advantage goes to Penn. The BA from Penn/CGS is exactly the same as that from Penn/CAS. </p>
<p>CGS is fully integrated into Penn - you'll only take your "distribution" courses in CGS designated sections (and it sounds like you'll transfer a bunch of those credits). And even then, there are very often a lot of CAS students in those sections, particularly languages. Major classes are nearly all regular CAS classes. All CAS undergraduate majors are available.</p>
<p>Not to say that Harvard's program is in any way inferior, but the Penn approach is a more traditional degree program that has all the same requirements as the CAS BA.</p>
<p>Thanks William. And kk19131, I didnt mean to downplay the non-traditional programs. Now that I have researched it more, UPenn General Studies seems like the better option. But I dont know about passing up Harvard for the price HES offers. What are some of the pros and cons about the Extension school?</p>
<p>Well,
The cons are that you can't live in the college dorms. The second is that you can only take a limited number of classes at Harvard College. I'm not sure if HES students can fully participate with Harvard College EC activities. </p>
<p>The pros are that you still get a world class education at a deep discount. The rigor of the classes are the same as Harvard College. The resources at Harvard University are available to everyone at HES.</p>
<p>And another good thing about Upenn CGS and Harvard Extension School is that they are not following Columbia GS lead by trying to match their traditional undergraduate counterparts with regards to college admissions. Be it SAT's or College Recomendations. They want to stay very low key with regards to that.</p>
<p>But since I'm applying to Penn's CGS and Harvard Extension School(If I am rejected by Penn), I won't know the outcome of my admissions status until my applications are completed. </p>
<p>There far more people applying to Columbia GS than the other schools mentioned, as far as I know.</p>
<p>Thanks redline. I know that UPenn sounds like the better deal because they are better about integrating the program into the standard college. But Harvard just sounds too fantastic to pass up. Now so far I've uncovered that most student organizations are open to HES students. I know of one guy who joined a finals club, Harvard International Business club, and has a leadership position with the campus GOP. So clubs are open. Class rings, Alumni networks, alumni clubs, and access to career services are also open to HES students.
The only cons that I can think of are that you cannot live in the dorms. You can have access to Harvard apartments, but they are so expensive, you might have better luck living elsewhere. Career services is only available by refferal and even then you get the cheap end of what they offer, like internship listings, some counseling, resume building, etc.
You can only take 2 Harvard College courses a semester as a special student. But the perk is that the two you choose can be graduate courses. </p>
<p>So basically Harvard Extension works on your level. If you want to integrate as much as want into the College, then you can and there are ways of doing so. I've heard this from a College Student, that an Extension student has pretty much all the resources that he has its just that its not told to him, HE has to go out and get it. </p>
<p>But still, do any of you think that if I chose HES, that I would have to bank on that my future employer either wouldnt know or wouldnt care about the difference between the two bachelors degrees?</p>
<p>Ruben,
In the long run, it doesn't matter what college you go to, regarding HES or Penn CGS. All that matters is what you put into your education and the opportunities that you took advantage of. Whatever career you go into, it's better to establish your contacts early on once you're there through the school's Alumni Network. </p>
<p>Personally, I would not use the Alumni contacts until I see how well I perform during the first 3-4 semesters, which includes a summer term. If my GPA is well above a 3.5 after the 3rd or 4th semester overall, I will certainly use those opportunities. But only once I've adjusted to the academics of my either Penn CGS of Harvard Extension School, provided that I am accepted first.</p>
<p>good point, red. I'm still looking at HES even though everyone tells me to choose Penn. But I really want to go into either consulting, I-banking or Law. Penn would be good for I-banking and HES has a great reputation of sending thier students to top law schools. With consulting, it's either or.
But you're right about waiting out and seeing how well you do in your classes to access your resources through the school. Thanks, red.</p>
<p>I could be wrong but I thought HES was considered to be completely separate from Harvard. Your diploma would say HES and not Harvard University. I recommend that you contact students currently enrolled. It seems like students at HES get a lot of flak. <a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506197%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506197</a></p>
<p>p</p>
<p>Hi Smart Guy,
You're quite correct. The Harvard Extension School and Harvard College are separate from each other. Nevertheless, both schools are PART of Harvard University as separate divisions of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences. Harvard Extension caters to non-traditional students who are looking to take classes at the school. Harvard College caters to the tradtional crowd. The criteria for both schools are different. </p>
<p>Some of the top colleges have created these non-traditional programs aimed at those who have always wanted access to an Ivy League education. But were unable to obtain those opportunities under personal circumstances. It gives a lot of people a second chance. From what I've read, no one who is attending these non-traditional programs are looking at it as a backdoor to a college degree. They are there for the experience and to explore their passion. </p>
<p>That opportunity is very rare at those schools considering how ultra competitive they have become over the past few decades regarding college admissions. Some of the most famous Alumni at those places would not be admitted today if they were to apply right now. Many of them were not straight "A" students when they first applied. A real shame that a solid "B+" in a competitive academic program is considered as the "C+" of the decade. Not good enough to warrent serious consideration.</p>
<p>Smart guy you would be surprised as to where HES grads have gone off to. Its most def. a second chance for many people.</p>
<p>My comment doesn't imply that students graduating from HES don't go on to do great things!?? I remember reading an article about it in the NYT last year. <a href="http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00A13FE355A0C7B8DDDA80994DD404482&showabstract=1%5B/url%5D">http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00A13FE355A0C7B8DDDA80994DD404482&showabstract=1</a></p>
<p>Rather, based on the Crimson article it seems like there are some identity issues surrounding the school. Go for it!!</p>
<p>I know you meant no harm. And the Harvard Extension School has a great program but its SO misunderstood. Apparently, for its entire 100 year existence only about 1,300 people have been able to complete the entire BA. So its not a cakewalk like most naysayers like to comment. </p>
<p>I just wish people would realize that Harvard would not be dumb enough to tarnish its reputation by attaching a diploma mill to their FAS.</p>
<p>Are there any Harvard Extension or UPenn General Studies students in here?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The BA from Penn/CGS is exactly the same as that from Penn/CAS.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is really as far as I need to read. The fact that you will receive the same exact degree from Penn CGS as those that attend Penn College is amazing and an opportunity that should not be passed up. The degree from Harvard, while noteable, is still not a degree from Harvard, per se. Employers will look at it and realize that you didn't fight your way through the masses and become one of the elite 10% that was admitted to Harvard College. With a degree from Penn, they will never know that: all they'll know is that you went to the University of Pennsylvania. </p>
<p>I would prefer the latter, were I in your position. </p>
<p>Correct me if I'm wrong on the above stated (about degrees).</p>
<p>RubenB84 - there are at least a few of us. I'm in Classical Studies through Penn CGS.</p>
<p>if it were that easy brand_182, I would hop on a plane to philly upon acceptance into Penn CGS. But at the same time at Harvard, while not the same degree from the College, offers ALOT of resources from the College. I mean I dont know how extensive the resources are at Penn CGS, including thier alumni network (which I can guess is pretty strong) but to pass up similar resources from Harvard is another matter entirely. </p>
<p>Like what was said in the NY Times article :</p>
<p>"Dr. Underwood said students getting bachelor's degrees from the extension school were "brilliantly milking the cow of Harvard University."</p>
<p>Judging from that Crimson article, it seems as though Harvard students have a LOT more resentment towards the extension school as an 'illegitimate school than Penn kids do towards CGS kids.</p>
<p>I imagine all the Harvard grads that make up the alumni network would be similarly resentful/skeptical.</p>
<p>Why should they be resentful? HES caters to a different crowd of people. Not the 18-22 year old crowd. And besides, a lot of people go to HES for the educational experience. Only a few will opt for a degree program at HES.</p>
<p>As for Penn CGS, while CGS doesn't appear on the degree, it does appear on the college transcript. But I doubt that a lot of employers will even ask for it. I believe that Penn CGS maintains a very low profile from the general undergraduate student population. I guess a student wouldn't know the difference unless someone tells them, which is rarely the case.</p>
<p>It seems that Harvard Extension and Columbia GS are the only schools that are talked about a lot in a odd sense. All of the other programs: Brown, Yale, and Penn maintain a out of sight, out of mind profile when it comes to their non-traditional programs.</p>