I initially committed to Cornell back on May 1st. Last Friday, I got off of the waitlist at Brown, so I was all set on going there until a couple days ago, when I found out I got off the waitlist at Penn as well!
Brown gave me till 06/02 to decide so I have tentatively committed there over Cornell, and I have until June 14th or so to decide whether to attend Penn instead.
I plan to major in Computer Science and am thinking of double majoring or perhaps minoring in something related to Business/Entrepreneurship or Psychology.
I was wondering whether you had any thoughts about my predicament?
So far I am sort of torn. If Penn had offered me admission prior to Brown, I would 100% be attending there next fall. However, after visiting Brown last week and learning more about the CS department/Open curriculum, I am slightly leaning towards Brown.
Pros for Brown: Open curriculum will allow me to easily double major in CS and BEO (Business, Entrepreneurship, and Organizations) while also taking other courses that interest me, even while only taking 4 classes a semester. I won’t have to take any rigorous Physics/Chem courses irrelevant to my field. Not much of a frat culture, and a lot of social fluidity (no social hierarchy per se). Focus on undergrads. A childhood friend that moved away is going there so it would be great to reunite. One more person from my school is going, so it will be nice to have a familiar face. Undergrad TA program for CS very unique.
Pros for Penn: Ability to take classes from Wharton. Great location (Philly). I found the campus much nicer than Brown’s campus (although Brown had a nice campus in its own way). PennApps = largest collegiate hackathon. So many opportunities and stuff to do in the city. I remember I loved the campus and tour when I visited my sophomore year. I will be visiting again later this week.
Cons for Brown: Providence (although nice) isn’t nearly as big of a city as Philly. Open curriculum offers less structure. Business/Entrepreneurship nowhere near as renowned as Wharton.
Cons for Penn: I’ve heard that CS is very difficult at Penn, and it is common for there to be grade deflation in STEM. I’ve heard the environment is very pre-professional and fairly competitive. Majoring in CS/Business would be difficult (I’m admitted to SEAS currently), as besides M&T and dual degrees (both of which are very hard to get into), my only option is to simply take some Wharton classes. Even if permitted to dual degree, I would have to take a very rigorous courseload (approx. 6 courses a semester) to graduate on time. I’ver heard there is a heavy party/frat culture and that Wharton kids are seen as at the top of the social hierarchy. Larger school, not as much undergrad focus as Brown.
Again, both schools have great, similarly ranked CS programs. I may not be in the right frame of mind, since prior to Thursday I completely expected to attend Brown, and only a week prior to that, I completely expected to attend Cornell, so I would greatly appreciate any contributions or advice.
Thanks!
What did you see/learn at this visit that you didn’t know before that changed your mind?
Everything else from your post makes me feel like you’ve decided on Brown but you say you had decided on Penn before and I’m not seeing anything you couldn’t have known before.
Personally, I would choose Penn over Brown especially if you’re looking to possibly major in Business - Wharton
You’re going to experience a fiercely competitive environment at either school, they’re both Ivies so it’s not like Brown won’t be hard. I know a couple people at each school, and they have all loved Penn and Brown not so much. Providence is kind of turning for the worst - gangs and the sorts running the streets and after a couple years, I feel there won’t be nearly as much opportunity for post-grad experiences there as with Philly. Penn parties are the best by the way, and nearly everyone in the Philly schools (SJU, Nova, Drexel) all go to them because they’re so awesome, just to note. Also, this is kind of a dream predicament for me to have haha, I wish I were in your position for getting to choose between such amazing schools, and wherever you end up it will be a fantastic education! Also, would you mind checking out my chance me for Emory? I would really like to go there and receive any feedback I can
@iwannabe_Brown I kinda applied to Brown on a whim to be quite honest with you, since I knew it had a good CS program. Out of all of the higher-tier schools I applied to, I knew the least about Brown. I was waitlisted at 6 schools, and of the 4 that I stayed on, Brown was the only one I didn’t send a letter of continued interest to (so I’m sort of surprised I was admitted in the first place). I initially had misconceptions about the open curriculum thinking that there would be no structure whatsoever, but now knowing more about it I kinda appreciate it’s flexibility relative to schools like Penn with many distribution requirements. I hadn’t visited campus before, and found it to be quite nice. Plus, when I was on campus I met both my regional admissions officer and the head of the CS department, both of whom were very friendly and welcoming. I also got to learn a lot more about the social life facets of Brown, rather than the purely academic stuff I found online when I initially researched the school.
Prior to being admitted to Brown, my number one school was Penn, since I remember really liking campus when I visited and appreciating the ability to take classes at Wharton (as someone who’s potentially interested in entrepreneurship/business). I also liked the idea of living in a city and felt that of the 4 schools whose waitlists I stayed on, I had the best shot at being admitted to Penn.
@piffthemagic_dragon thanks for the advice! If I was guaranteed the ability to major in Wharton, that would make my decision a lot easier but since I was admitted to SEAS, there’s no guarantee. Plus, double majoring at Penn (esp. the SEAS-Wharton combo) is very hard to do in terms of the ability to fit all the courses in. As I said in my initial post, I’ve heard that for those pursuing this combo, 6 classes a semester is a commonality, and I would have next to no room for taking classes that simply sound interesting to me. I’ll be sure to check out your chance thread for Emory
I like Brown for you. I feel like it’s a bit odd to choose based on your minor. Brown and Penn are similarly ranked in CS, it’s true, but from what I’ve read tech companies, esp Silicon Valley based ones, recruit heavily from Brown. And if social fluidity and limited Greek life appeal to you, then you’ve got to think about if Penn is really the right place for you.
A +1 to Brown. Great CS program in terms of teaching and approach, which is a differentiator from Penn beyond ranking, which doesn’t matter much in CS. Anecdotally, I also haven’t encountered any Penn CS students, but many from Brown. It has the flexibility, a social scene you like, the open curriculum that will allow you to craft your education as needed, and despite what someone up thread said, will be a lot less competitive from what I know of students at both.
Of the three Cornell has the strongest CS department, but Brown and Penn are strong alternatives if you have other reasons for choosing them. From what you have said about yourself, I would choose Brown for you. It has the least Greek life influencing it’s social scene. It’s open curriculum will allow you maximum flexibility in selecting courses outside your CS major. Furthermore you will find that Providence is a cool city. Stick with Brown.
Thanks for the advice everyone! It really helps. And yeah, I know Cornell objectively has the best CS program, but there are definitely other factors that are important in college. After all, most of the courses I’ll be taking will be outside of CS, and the quality of living is something I will have to experience every day over the next four years.
Brown has excellent CS and the TA system is great. We are hoping that the engineering department starts to follow the CS model. There is plenty of hard work but very uncompetitive atmosphere. People help each other out - who ever said above that it was ‘fiercely competitive’ is way off.
Hard to imagine Cornell has an objectively stronger CS program. Not to say it isn’t strong but at the height of the recession, my CS classmates were struggling to decide which of the several job offers they were each getting from the likes of google, microsoft, facebook, adobe, apple, pixar, etc as every news station in the country was constantly talking about how hard it was for college kids to find a job.
“Hard to imagine Cornell has an objectively stronger CS program.”
I don’t think this kind of thing must be solely left to imagination. There are probably published rankings, possibly both academic and industry; employee degree origin lists. Heck OP can look at the Registrar’s list of courses actually given in CS and EE at each institution and simply count them. OP can do this legwork if he/she cares.
This in no way means that students from an “objectively weaker” program can’t get a job, even if their program is “objectively weaker”. Lots of top employers just want the smartest students, irrespective of the precise details of their specific training. A relative got offered a job at Google, he wasn’t even a CS major, or a programming geek of any kind.
Congratulations. You can’t make a bad choice here.
Brown is the most flexible curriculum in the Ivy League, but Penn is probably second. Penn also offers CS in CAS if you don’t want to go through the engineering curriculum, although the engineer students get better average offers.
Penn students are fairly pre-professional but that is generally a good thing for CS majors. That means that other students will let you know that you need to be creating a Linkedin profile, or spending time in the summer preparing for interviews in the fall.
Penn students are not cutthroat. They do work hard for grades, but they tend to be cooperative. Penn has a very social culture and in a social culture being cutthroat is a big no-no. I don’t think Wharton students are seen as the apex of the social hierarchy by anyone except maybe a few admitted Wharton freshman before they get to campus. lol
The students are all mixed together and they find their friends who are like them, irrespective of which school they are in.
Penn students are more likely than Cornell students to be pursuing interests in addition to CS.
Penn students don’t have any difficulty being recruited to Silicon Valley. These positions are obtained via technical interviews, not by your choice of school. D1 is at Penn and had offers for this summer from Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, and Google. she is spending the summer in one of those firms Research and AI department. I doubt you will have difficulty getting interviews from any of these three schools.
It is true that some of the Penn CS majors will decide to take opportunities in finance or consulting, but there is no harm in having options. Penn SEAS students can interview for any job Wharton students are interviewing for and they will a good number of them. Employers are not allow to only interview Wharton students at Penn.
One big question you left off is “What makes a CS program objectively better?”. I think you’d have resistance on a lot of the factors you implied were important. The comment you quoted says more to me about how there are few CS programs that are objectively better than another unless there is a huge and consistent ranking spread, which is not the case here.
@Much2learn Where did you see Penn has CS in CAS as well? If that was an option I would love that but from my knowledge CS is only offered in the SEAS.
And to everyone else, each school’s CS program and department has different pros and cons that come with it. What I meant by Cornell having an objectively better program was that the school is consistently seen as the foremost Ivy League school for Computer Science and Engineering. They have terrific placement in terms of jobs, and send the most students to Silicon Valley amongst its ivy peers. I know rankings aren’t everything, but pretty much every ranking out there has Cornell as a top 10 CS program. That being said, I appreciate the feel of a smaller school and location is somewhat important to me, so Cornell is sorta out of the equation now. Plus, at this caliber of school, I’m sure job placement will not be a problem wherever I end up attending. Brown and Penn on the other hand are much more evenly matched in terms of CS and have great locations to boot.
@Much2learn Thanks for the link! The ASCS degree is still offered through the school of engineering though. There are still Physics/Chem and engineering requirements, although there are considerably less requirements than the BSE degree. Definitely food for thought.
