The 3% to 0.5% is a bit misleading. Of the 3% who make Semi, the vast majority - more than 90% become Finalists. Those who don’t typically fall into three categories: 1) didn’t complete the application, 2) aren’t US citizens, 3) had poor grades or significant disciplinary problems. That final half percent represents only the Finalists who receive small (e.g one-time $2500) from the Nat’l Merit Corporation itself.
The full ride / full-tuition scholarships that go to NM Finalists are awarded by the colleges themselves.
The number also doesn’t include kids who never take the PSAT, so there are a great many more who have the ability but didn’t take the test, which is why I mentioned some of the autostats awards and the relevant - and much lower - ACT numbers.
Anyhow, NMF takes work and ability, granted, but there are many more full tuition or better offers for students who are in much more reachable percentiles.
A B student in New England 25 years ago easily got into BC, BU, Providence, Brandies, etc… and their middle class parents could afford the full pay sticker price. That is not the case now. So if you kid doesn’t want to attend their instate URI, UNH or UMass because its a poor fit or because they have a bad program or no program for their major, then you will have to look outside of New England and go way down the list in order to get an affordable sticker price.
My guess is that many of last generation’s B students would be this generation’s A or A- students. A lot of people say that they wouldn’t get into their colleges today but, IMO, today is different. It’s a rat race to have the most activities, the most APs, weighted GPAs, etc. That stuff didn’t exist “back in the day”. Our kids aren’t smarter than we are, they are just pushed and programmed harder. HS GPAs have grade inflation. It used to be that a 4.0 was perfect and one could not do better than that. Standardized tests have been reformatted and rescaled resulting in higher scores for the same level of knowledge and achievement. Everything has been hyped up. The kids who are so smart that they are considered too special to be tainted by a school a notch or two down aren’t really more special. They might have worked harder and they’ve been packaged better but they aren’t more intelligent in many cases. It’s just more of the college admissions game and hype. It’s different times and a different game.
“So if you kid doesn’t want to attend their instate URI, UNH or UMass because its a poor fit or because they have a bad program or no program for their major, then you will have to look outside of New England and go way down the list in order to get an affordable sticker price.”
We had to look outside of NE for one of the reasons that you mentioned. However, I am not sure what you mean by “way down the list”. We are “way down the list” in terms of where the average NE students thinks to apply, but “way up the list” in terms of the quality of the university.
@DadTwoGirls If a student with a 3.0 GPA wants merit or a low sticker price school in New England, they have to go down the list of lower ranked privates or choose their instate school (likely a directional with that GPA).
@SlitheyTove Great post (#230), very calm, measured and unemotional… just like the OPs original post.
@DiotimaDM, I think you’re mixing the process up a bit.
This is before the student has to fill out an application.
Most of the 16,000 semifinalists do become finalists, but no matter how you want to slice it- 3% have qualifying scores, 1.1% become semifinalists, 1% become finalists, 1/2% are awarded some kind of National Merit Award-this is a tiny proportion of the college-bound kids in the US. http://www.studypoint.com/ed/national-merit-scholarship-qualifications/
There are more reachable merit awards but very, very few are full tuition. Many of these smaller merit awards are used to draw in full-pay kids who are flattered by the idea of getting $5,000 off a COA of 70,000.
“If a student with a 3.0 GPA wants merit or a low sticker price school in New England, they have to go down the list of lower ranked privates or choose their instate school (likely a directional with that GPA).”
Okay. Not a situation that I have needed to deal with. This does however seem likely.
@doschicos I used to think the same exact things in your post. However, recently I was asked to help my 15 year old S understand some passages in his AP human geography book. I read one page and thought my goodness how do educators expect 15 year old to grasp this level of reading? Plus, the literature he’s reading in English is past what I did in college. Not to mention the level of AP calc is more difficult than back in my day. And FWIW, what I did in HS was good enough to get into an upper tier public university
@SlitheyTove@katliamom
Of course it is up to the colleges how to deliver aid. I am arguing that some families in what is deemed the upper middle class need aid. I am not delusional and there are many threads in CC that explain why an income of $250,000 may yet need aid. They are often called “doughnut hole” families. Colleges do not have to expand their income to help them, but perhaps come up with more creative financing besides an installment plan.
Katliamom- you seem not to understand the Toyota metaphor. So I will try but one more time. CC is filled with encouragement for students to apply to places for which they cannot pay without aid. No one tells them to settle for something else. When an UMC student says they need help they are told to shut up and go where they can pay without any sympathy for their dreams. I don’t care how many posters agree with you. I know I have a minority opinion but that is why I am bringing it up. And perhaps you would hear more of this POV if they did not have to risk being calle delusional and ridiculous by poster like you.
Bottom line: I strongly argue that colleges should expand financial aid past their current limits (often at about $175k regardless of the cost of living) and I hope that people who earn less than that will understand that people who earn more are still deserving of help. I remain disappointed that many who demand sympathy can’t seem to give it. For the last time on this thread, I want to clarify that I am not asking that poor people get less, but that the UMC get more and certainly not be chastised for searching for merit aid.
Finally, you should know that I have been educated by some of the highest of higher education institutions. They taught me how to engage with ideas counter to mine.
@CALSmom said “I read one page and thought my goodness how do educators expect 15 year old to grasp this level of reading?”
Do schools expect a 15 year old to take an AP class?
However, I have read some of the papers that come off our printer around about midnight from our high school kids (which we won’t have anymore in a few weeks). They are better than anything that I ever saw in high school. A few years back I noticed when helping a daughter with history the reading that they do now is way past anything that we did when I was in high school.
I don’t know how much of this is based on more information being more readily available, or if there is some other reason. But I do agree that high school kids are doing things and reading things and writing things that we didn’t read and write way back when I was in high school. More seems to be expected now. Clearly there is a lot more stress on our kids now.
I have not noticed the math getting any harder or more rigorous than what I did in high school.
@monydad unfortunately yes this particular AP course is typical to take sophomore year at my S high school. His brother did it and recommended it to his younger brother. I would have recommended AP psychology for sophomore year. Anyway, it just seems like the same subjects are more rigorous nowadays vs when we were in HS.
That’s the working harder part I mentioned, @CALSmom. Not to be confused with intelligence. I’m sure many of us, given the same standards set, could accomplish the same - not that I would want that rat race! It does come with practice and progression. I went to a private high school so I think I was prepared fairly well and I didn’t find my kids’ own private school education that strenuous in comparison. Maybe that biases me. I guess it depends on each of our reference points. I did come across some old college papers when clean out some boxes I had in storage for forever and I was like “Huh, I was a damn good writer back then.” (including those typed up footnotes!)
There is a lot more stress now, I agree. Some of it derives from parents thinking that certain schools aren’t good enough for their kids. That’s a lot of pressure on a teenager.
@AREYOUTHEONE Where are people chastising for looking for merit aid on this thread? If you wish to expand the amount of FA given and raise the income ceiling on those that qualify, where do you suggest that money come from?
@doschicos The very richest colleges have the money. Harvard trustees have even suggested free tuition. The others could do extended interest free loans from the college that extend beyond college or lower interest loans ( some colleges do this). They could also fundraise for it. They could hold tuition flat for the four years of college. Also the UMC aren’t looking for $30k, just $5k would help. I will search the thread but I believe that that complaint was one of the thing that triggered the thread.
How does that statement equate to chastising those looking for merit aid? Seems like a logic jump there to me.
Don’t confuse Harvard’s financial situation with that of the majority of colleges. It’s only a slim number that have endowments approaching Harvard’s. I’d also argue that they have no problem meeting their desired quota of full pay UMC students. They have no problem attracting that segment under the current model. What is their incentive to change their model? Plenty of full pay UMCs come clamoring at their door and they are fairly interchangeable.
“Also the UMC aren’t looking for $30k, just $5k would help.” Do you really think that small amount of assistance is the difference that will get those that share the OP’s views to think they aren’t being screwed? I doubt it would make much difference. So, instead of spending $260K+ it will just cost $240K+.
@doschicos I agree! Too much pressure on kids. In my case my kids compete with their peers and their HS is a pretty good public one with high achievers. I’ve told my 15 yo he doesn’t need so many APs!! I asked him what his passion in life is and he said basketball and fresh barber cuts lol. I said fine our state school is good enough or even trade school if he wants to shave heads!
