<p>when do these rankings even come out/.</p>
<p>Available online on August 17th.</p>
<p>My alma matter was recently upgraded from college to university status as of June 1, 2007. I assume since most or all of the data used in compiling the 2008 rankings was obtained before such time, that the new status will not be factored in. I would think that the former comprehensive college may eventually be "upgraded" to a masters university in the ranking system, assuming they meet the criteria which I believe is......(masters university = 10% or more of the degrees awarded are masters level or higher). They've had masters programs for a long time, but not sure at what % they've been awarded in respect to undergrad. Not that a move from comprehensive college to masters university would add any value to my or anyone else's degree...... BTW, the school was/is International College/ Hodges University. Any thoughts??</p>
<p>
[quote]
Really? How do you explain the old Michigan UG admissions point system (practised until 2003):</p>
<p>1) Points awarded for SAT I test score:
1360-1600 (12 points)
1200-1350 (11 points)
1010-1190 (10 points)</p>
<p>2) Points awarded for GPA:
4.0 (80 points)
3.8 (76 points)
3.5 (70 points)</p>
<p>3) Curriculum factor:
Difficulty level=4 (8 points)
Difficulty level=3 (6 points)
Difficulty level=-1 (-2 points)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Goblue – I’m well aware of that (you seem to have overlooked that Mich also only awarded 1 point for stellar essays) – nonetheless, this “points system” benefits those who have high scores.</p>
<p>Think about it. Most students who do well on the SATs usually have good GPAs, attend fairly competitive schools and take a tougher course load. The only thing that would differentiate them, other than their test score, is their essays – which are only worth 1 point (the fact that Mich places stellar essays within the “points system” says a lot about how they evaluate applicants).</p>
<p>A top private has much more leeway to accept applicants with great essays/EC’s etc. and lower test scores since they aren’t confined to a “points system” – do you really think that the publics reject a higher % of top scorers than the top private schools?</p>
<p>Think about it this way – a typical “quality” applicant is going to have a very good GPA/tough course-load – and if he/she also is talented enough to write very good essays – the fact that they have an additional point for having an SAT score within the top range is going to guarantee them admission over other candidates who do as well in all the other areas (except for the SATs).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Taken straight from the Kaplan website:
"Score Improvement - Kaplan students' scores improved an average of 240 points."</p>
<p>I know some private tuitors who promised more.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And I’m sure you also believe those late-nite commercials for pills that make you increase your memory or promise that you’ll get a flat tummy.</p>
<p>Btw, I'm sure you boys in blue are all loving Harbaugh right now.</p>
<p>Imo, he's being a bit harsh - you guys certainly are no dOSU (nor the SEC) with regard to cutting corners when it comes to student-athletes.</p>
<p>Reason being is the the U.S. Service Academies are not even ranked.</p>
<p>They are regarded as "Unranked Specialty Schools" which they are specialty.</p>
<p>SAT scores are not as high as say the top 15, but they are pretty close.</p>
<p>GPA/Class rank is nothing to sneeze at.</p>
<p>The thing people don't realize is their selcectivity. Take a look at the % applicants admitted from each Academy:</p>
<p>U.S. Naval Academy 14% (was 12% last year)
U.S. Military Academy 16% (was 13% last year)
U.S. Air Force Academy 19% (was 16% last year)
U.S. Coast Guard Academy 26%
U.S. Merchant Marine Academy 28%</p>
<p>In all, the "Toughest to get into" card should be considered when doing these rankings.</p>
<p>I predict that Princeton will lose the top spot, but I think it is still the best "all-around" college.</p>
<p>GoNavy -</p>
<p>I agree that the military academies tend to be overlooked - however, the fact that tuition/room/board at the academies are "free" plays a part in the selectivity rates.</p>
<p>MILITARY ISN"T OVERLOOKED!!!!!</p>
<p>They aren't doctoral schools so they are overlooked as a national University.. but for example they are ranked in engineering!</p>
<p>I meant overlooked in the sense of the general discussions here and not the USNWR rankings.</p>
<p>To GoNavyXC, how progressive are the students at your school? You know, in terms of asking the hard questions and challenging their viewpoints, taking part in social activism, being sensitive to race/gender/sexual orientation issues?</p>
<p>
[quote]
nonetheless, this “points system” benefits those who have high scores. (post #425)
[/quote]
I can't follow your logic. I just proved to you that you get exactly the same number of points whether your score is 1360 or 1600; and you lose only 1 point if you get only 1200.</p>
<p>The old points system proves without a doubt that Michigan weighs GPA and curriculum much more than standardized test scores. It gives you some insight on how Michigan admissions evaluate academic excellence.</p>
<p>So under the old system, if you are in-state with a 3.8 GPA from a rigorous curriculum and if you score 1360 in your first try, there is no incentive to take the SAT again to improve your score. And if you have top GPA from a competitive high school, you may even be content with a score in the 1200s on your first try.</p>
<p>How many top privates you know de-emphasize the SAT in the same fashion?</p>
<p>p.s. The points system is a thing of the past. Michigan has revamped its admissions process since 2003 to take a holistic approach.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I’m sure you also believe those late-nite commercials for pills that make you increase your memory or promise that you’ll get a flat tummy.
[/quote]
Of course I know that it's pure marketing. I do know quite a number of students who were able to improve their scores by a couple hundred points with private coaching. However, Big Brother correctly pointed out that it depends on "the average score these students began with".</p>
<p>My post was in direct response to your statement that "while having economic means may help a 1300 scorer get a 1380 or a 1440 scorer get a 1490 – it’s not going to make a 1250 scorer into a 1460 scorer. (post #405)"</p>
<p>I just happen to know a couple students who improved from low 1900s to high 2100s (1500 CR+M) last year. Some people just need to be shown the way.</p>
<p>Btw, do you have any statistics to back up your statement above?</p>
<p>The most unbiased college rankings I've seen of America's top 126 colleges based on quality of life, academics, sports, cost, and overall:</p>
<p>QOL
Academics
Athletics
Cost
Overall</p>
<p>Princeton University 2 7 5 76 1
Stanford University 1 14 1 87 2
University of North Carolina 50 34 4 20 3
Williams College 3 41 20 49 4
Yale University 12 5 7 91 5
Harvard University 11 2 39 74 6
University of Virginia 27 42 37 38 7
U.S. Naval Academy 22 79 45 1 8
Amherst College 7 36 50 66 9
Columbia University 30 15 28 86 9
Middlebury College 18 51 13 80 11
University of Michigan 38 38 10 77 12
Duke University 15 16 44 89 13
University of Texas 95 38 12 20 14
University of California (UCLA) 67 27 2 70 15
University of California 48 25 22 71 15
University of Georgia 69 61 26 19 17
Rice University 31 20 77 51 18
University of Oklahoma 75 71 24 11 19
University of Florida 74 42 58 8 20
College of New Jersey 58 83 14 33 21
Louisiana State University 76 82 15 15 22
University of Notre Dame 6 41 30 117 23
Abilene Christian University 63 92 8 32 24
Dartmouth College 10 25 51 110 25
University of Pennsylvania 23 16 66 92 26
Kenyon College 35 67 11 88 27
Penn State University 64 65 17 56 28
University of Arkansas 105 82 6 13 29
Oklahoma State University 102 89 9 7 30
University of Wisconsin 85 53 32 39 31
U.S. Air Force Academy 32 80 96 1 32
University of Nebraska 98 68 33 12 33
University of Illinois 61 59 36 55 34
California Institute of Technology 17 13 107 79 35
Washington University in St. Louis 44 14 34 124 36
Swarthmore College 8 52 104 54 37
University of Iowa 109 70 16 25 38
Johns Hopkins University 46 23 42 110 39
University of Maryland 92 51 38 40 40
University of Kansas 79 69 62 14 41
Washington and Lee University 20 59 76 69 42
Lincoln University 70 99 35 22 43
University of Alabama 78 76 64 10 44
Iowa State University 88 69 41 31 45
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 19 7 90 114 46
Carleton College 13 48 72 97 47
Brown University 28 25 63 115 48
St. Augustine's College 100 101 25 6 49
Florida Southern College 80 104 21 29 50
Macalaster College 49 56 68 61 51
Brigham Young University 93 77 60 4 52
Ohio State University 97 61 18 59 53
University of Southern California 87 29 3 116 54
Cornell University 29 28 56 123 55
Bowdoin College 16 43 99 82 56
Davidson College 4 67 72 98 57
Michigan State University 82 77 31 53 58
Trinity University 65 78 59 42 59
Haverford College 5 56 109 75 60
Wheaton College 56 68 74 47 61
Pomona College 9 39 105 93 62
University of Washington 84 51 75 36 62
Adams State College 91 103 49 5 64
Emory University 47 32 71 99 65
University of Kentucky 108 79 54 9 66
Vanderbilt University 41 30 97 83 67
Northwestern University 42 20 86 107 68
University of Mississippi 71 90 91 3 69
Arizona State University 120 74 40 22 70
Wellesley College 14 60 119 63 71
University of Arizona 125 63 53 18 72
North Central College 111 102 19 28 73
Cooper Union 26 64 112 60 74
Wake Forest University 43 61 55 103 75
Grinnell College 40 57 108 58 76
Georgia Institute of Technology 90 40 97 37 77
Indiana University 103 85 23 57 78
Methodist College 89 107 29 44 79
University of Tennessee 112 83 48 27 80
Brandeis University 54 44 70 102 81
Texas A&M University 114 59 80 17 82
Villanova University 62 80 27 104 83
University of Missouri 81 80 84 30 84
University of Chicago 55 36 89 96 85
Bates College 36 73 101 67 86
Bucknell University 21 76 78 105 87
North Dakota State University 117 104 43 16 88
Georgetown University 45 38 79 121 89
Tufts University 57 44 100 83 90
Vassar College 24 57 95 108 91
University of Minnesota 113 64 57 50 92
Florida State University 115 83 67 24 93
Rutgers 101 69 85 35 94
Boston College 53 64 69 106 95
University of South Carolina 94 77 87 34 96
University of Oregon 119 86 46 43 97
Purdue University 106 68 83 46 98
University of Colorado 121 79 47 64 99
Wesleyan University 39 59 93 120 99
Case Western Reserve University 99 44 94 78 101
Oberlin College 51 51 103 113 102
College of the Atlantic 68 80 122 48 103
University of Miami 96 72 61 90 104
New York University 104 39 52 126 105
Tuskegee University 66 100 116 41 106
Culinary Institute of America 37 106 122 61 107
Bryn Mawr College 33 73 121 101 108
Juilliard School 25 94 125 85 109
Reed College 59 74 120 81 110
Mount Holyoke College 34 73 113 122 111
San Diego State University 126 93 102 26 112
Smith College 52 71 115 110 113
Illinois Institute of Technology 110 78 117 45 114
Tulane University 116 54 88 95 115
Temple University 124 97 81 52 116
Boston University 118 56 65 118 117
Gonzaga University 106 86 92 73 117
University of Cincinnati 122 90 82 65 119
Hollins University 60 104 124 72 120
Carnegie Mellon University 86 44 106 125 121
Rhode Island School of Design 83 88 118 94 122
St. John's College (Md) 77 91 110 108 123
Sarah Lawrence College 73 80 114 119 124
New School University 72 91 125 100 125
DePaul University 123 98 111 68 126</p>
<p>Academic Rankings only:</p>
<p>Harvard University 11 2 39 74 6
Yale University 12 5 7 91 5
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 19 7 90 114 46
Princeton University 2 7 5 76 1
California Institute of Technology 17 13 107 79 35
Stanford University 1 14 1 87 2
Washington University in St. Louis 44 14 34 124 36
Columbia University 30 15 28 86 9
University of Pennsylvania 23 16 66 92 26
Duke University 15 16 44 89 13
Rice University 31 20 77 51 18
Northwestern University 42 20 86 107 68
Johns Hopkins University 46 23 42 110 39
Brown University 28 25 63 115 48
University of California 48 25 22 71 15
Dartmouth College 10 25 51 110 25
University of California (UCLA) 67 27 2 70 15
Cornell University 29 28 56 123 55
University of Southern California 87 29 3 116 54
Vanderbilt University 41 30 97 83 67
Emory University 47 32 71 99 65
University of North Carolina 50 34 4 20 3
University of Chicago 55 36 89 96 85
Amherst College 7 36 50 66 9
Georgetown University 45 38 79 121 89
University of Texas 95 38 12 20 14
University of Michigan 38 38 10 77 12
Pomona College 9 39 105 93 62
New York University 104 39 52 126 105
Georgia Institute of Technology 90 40 97 37 77
University of Notre Dame 6 41 30 117 23
Williams College 3 41 20 49 4
University of Florida 74 42 58 8 20
University of Virginia 27 42 37 38 7
Bowdoin College 16 43 99 82 56
Tufts University 57 44 100 83 90
Case Western Reserve University 99 44 94 78 101
Brandeis University 54 44 70 102 81
Carnegie Mellon University 86 44 106 125 121
Carleton College 13 48 72 97 47
Middlebury College 18 51 13 80 11
University of Maryland 92 51 38 40 40
University of Washington 84 51 75 36 62
Oberlin College 51 51 103 113 102
Swarthmore College 8 52 104 54 37
University of Wisconsin 85 53 32 39 31
Tulane University 116 54 88 95 115
Macalaster College 49 56 68 61 51
Boston University 118 56 65 118 117
Haverford College 5 56 109 75 60
Grinnell College 40 57 108 58 76
Vassar College 24 57 95 108 91
Wesleyan University 39 59 93 120 99
Washington and Lee University 20 59 76 69 42
Texas A&M University 114 59 80 17 82
University of Illinois 61 59 36 55 34
Wellesley College 14 60 119 63 71
Ohio State University 97 61 18 59 53
Wake Forest University 43 61 55 103 75
University of Georgia 69 61 26 19 17
University of Arizona 125 63 53 18 72
Cooper Union 26 64 112 60 74
Boston College 53 64 69 106 95
University of Minnesota 113 64 57 50 92
Penn State University 64 65 17 56 28
Kenyon College 35 67 11 88 27
Davidson College 4 67 72 98 57
Purdue University 106 68 83 46 98
Wheaton College 56 68 74 47 61
University of Nebraska 98 68 33 12 33
University of Kansas 79 69 62 14 41
Iowa State University 88 69 41 31 45
Rutgers 101 69 85 35 94
University of Iowa 109 70 16 25 38
Smith College 52 71 115 110 113
University of Oklahoma 75 71 24 11 19
University of Miami 96 72 61 90 104
Bryn Mawr College 33 73 121 101 108
Mount Holyoke College 34 73 113 122 111
Bates College 36 73 101 67 86
Reed College 59 74 120 81 110
Arizona State University 120 74 40 22 70
Bucknell University 21 76 78 105 87
University of Alabama 78 76 64 10 44
Brigham Young University 93 77 60 4 52
University of South Carolina 94 77 87 34 96
Michigan State University 82 77 31 53 58
Trinity University 65 78 59 42 59
Illinois Institute of Technology 110 78 117 45 114
University of Colorado 121 79 47 64 99
University of Kentucky 108 79 54 9 66
U.S. Naval Academy 22 79 45 1 8
Sarah Lawrence College 73 80 114 119 124
Villanova University 62 80 27 104 83
University of Missouri 81 80 84 30 84
U.S. Air Force Academy 32 80 96 1 32
College of the Atlantic 68 80 122 48 103
Louisiana State University 76 82 15 15 22
University of Arkansas 105 82 6 13 29
College of New Jersey 58 83 14 33 21
Florida State University 115 83 67 24 93
University of Tennessee 112 83 48 27 80
Indiana University 103 85 23 57 78
University of Oregon 119 86 46 43 97
Gonzaga University 106 86 92 73 117
Rhode Island School of Design 83 88 118 94 122
Oklahoma State University 102 89 9 7 30
University of Mississippi 71 90 91 3 69
University of Cincinnati 122 90 82 65 119
St. John's College (Md) 77 91 110 108 123
New School University 72 91 125 100 125
Abilene Christian University 63 92 8 32 24
San Diego State University 126 93 102 26 112
Juilliard School 25 94 125 85 109
Temple University 124 97 81 52 116
DePaul University 123 98 111 68 126
Lincoln University 70 99 35 22 43
Tuskegee University 66 100 116 41 106
St. Augustine's College 100 101 25 6 49
North Central College 111 102 19 28 73
Adams State College 91 103 49 5 64</p>
<p>
[quote]
This thread = 155.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>TITCR.....</p>
<p>Interesting data, GoNavy. (And, I might add, better don your flak jacket.) Don't have time to read the link, so quick question: who compiled it?</p>
<p>It's made up by Addison Braendel, an individual not professionally involved in the world of higher education.</p>
<p>Rankings never cease to confuse me, yet HYPSM stay in the same top tier area. Go figure.</p>
<p>Goblue –
[quote]
I can't follow your logic. I just proved to you that you get exactly the same number of points whether your score is 1360 or 1600; and you lose only 1 point if you get only 1200.</p>
<p>The old points system proves without a doubt that Michigan weighs GPA and curriculum much more than standardized test scores. It gives you some insight on how Michigan admissions evaluate academic excellence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uhh – no. The point system virtually guarantees admission for people who higher SAT scores – as long as they have good grades, take tough classes, etc.</p>
<p>UM admissions had very little leeway under the points system – so applicants who do well in all the other factors AND have high SAT scores have it made – whereas, the privates have much more leeway to reject students with top scores and they do.</p>
<p>The top students at my HS got into every top public they applied to, whereas they got admitted to the top privates at a 30-60% rate.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So under the old system, if you are in-state with a 3.8 GPA from a rigorous curriculum and if you score 1360 in your first try, there is no incentive to take the SAT again to improve your score. And if you have top GPA from a competitive high school, you may even be content with a score in the 1200s on your first try.</p>
<p>How many top privates you know de-emphasize the SAT in the same fashion?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That’s assuming that the best Mich students only apply to UM and other state schools and not any private universities (which is very unlikely).</p>
<p>
[quote]
p.s. The points system is a thing of the past. Michigan has revamped its admissions process since 2003 to take a holistic approach.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I think that is pretty well known and wouldn’t the fact that UM went to a more “holistic” standard suggest that the points system was too heavily based on stats? (at least in terms of trying to assemble a racially diversified student body – notwithstanding the 20 pt bump for URMs and low income students under the old system).</p>
<p>I guess it must be just coincidence that the SAT scores have risen this past decade at UM – a school which supposedly doesn’t particularly care for it (as they do superb essays - which also only received a point under the points system).</p>
<p>It’s actually kind of funny how UM defenders have argued that UM has just as much (if not more) high SAT scorers than private unis, and other (or the same) defenders argue that UM doesn’t care about the SAT as much as the private unis.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Of course I know that it's pure marketing. I do know quite a number of students who were able to improve their scores by a couple hundred points with private coaching. However, Big Brother correctly pointed out that it depends on "the average score these students began with".</p>
<p>My post was in direct response to your statement that "while having economic means may help a 1300 scorer get a 1380 or a 1440 scorer get a 1490 – it’s not going to make a 1250 scorer into a 1460 scorer. (post #405)"</p>
<p>I just happen to know a couple students who improved from low 1900s to high 2100s (1500 CR+M) last year. Some people just need to be shown the way.</p>
<p>Btw, do you have any statistics to back up your statement above?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Keeping in mind that the official statistics by ETS, the test publishers, "show" that the average combined improvement is 60 to 70 points, a 150-point improvement is quite respectable, 200 to 300 points is excellent, and 400 points is phenomenal. Improvements of 500 points are so rare that ETS often examines such answer sheets for evidence of cheating.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, 200+ point improvements can happen if (1) the kid is already fairly bright (2) didn't already do anything to prepare (such as take sample tests/read a prep book) and (3) scored on the lower end (much more difficult to jump 100-150 pts if already scored 1400+).</p>
<p>
[quote]
That’s assuming that the best Mich students only apply to UM and other state schools and not any private universities (which is very unlikely).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The best Michigan students go to UM in droves. VERY VERY few even think about any OOS schools. You go to UM if you are smart, maybe MSU Honors, or Northwestern if you can afford it and want to be a bit different.</p>
<p>But UM is the expectation for every valedictorian, top scorer, or even athlete.</p>