USNA missing out...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>Back to the topic at hand - I did not turn USNA down because I felt I was missing something. Pretty much everything I wanted was on the yard or in Annapolis. I just got a better overall fit on the farm. As for missing out, concentrate on the positives; if it is the best set of positives then go for it, if it is not the best set then go with that which is. If you are worried about the negatives (which "missing out" would be) then the first time things get rough, you will be questioning your decision. - best advice I got from the bro.</p>

<p>Stop if you do not want to read my reply to above...</p>

<p>Sorry just wanted to save you some...

[quote]
One grandpa was USNA 1960 (subs), the other grandpa was a Naval aviator who flew two tours off the Enterprise in Vietnam. The third (stepdad) was a 22-year veteran Army MSgt. I was an Army brat

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Everything you quote is US Military designation, you have given the impression you are US Military through and through...</p>

<p>Ok I can read, two grandfathers - grandfathers of you son - so one which must be your father - both Navy men, USNA60 and Naval Aviator. But you were an Army Brat? </p>

<p>I too have had my fair share of moves around the world with the last few years being the first time I can call home a "home." I am US Navy from "way back" Grandfather USNA47 too. I have heard my fair share of the antics on the yard. I have heard my fair share of "pride" in the Academy, but never in the context of being better than any civilian school - Ok ND yes but that is another story.</p>

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<p>rjrzoom - Good post.</p>

<p>
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I also think you could legitimately question the way in which we go about preparing our kids for college.

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Growing up in a very German family beer was always the beverage of choice at a family function. We learned from a very young age that alcohol was a beverage, served with a meal and even for the little ones. (Son included when just a tot.) No one got stone drunk - it was just not accepted There is/was no alcolohism in the family.</p>

<p>We have never treated Alcohol for my son as a taboo either. He has travelled all over the world. He has had beer or wine with many meals. To him it is no big deal. Went to parties in high school, had every opportunity to drink and chose not to - not because it was against the law - but because he had been taught to respect it's usage. Living in the south, we are certainly not the norm...most kids treat alcohol with little regard for it's effects. Drinking is rampant in most high-schools and most colleges. The number of parents who sent their "good" kids off to Younglife (a great christian organization) so they would not be at drinking parties, but in reality - in our area - those were the events that had the most alcohol at them. The Poison fruit is so tempting when you are under age. Even those of us who sent our kids off to USNA thinking it was safe and not a party school need a reality check...it they want to drink - there are opportunities for all who desire...again if you think there isn't an opportunity you are only kidding yourself. And if you think my kid wouldn't do that - pinch yourself as it can come "home to roost" in the best of kids.</p>

<p>Let the cannons start flying but the worst thing we have done in the US was lifting the drinking age to 21. We took the responsibility of learning to drink away from parents a dropped it square in the lap of their underage peers who to have no idea what responsible usage is either, and now are demanding the the Colleges and Universities start educating students on alcohol usage. Even at USNA the Administration is (was?) teaching responsible drinking - I actually like the 0-0-1-3 policy that Captain Grooms put into place (not sure if it too has been scrapped) It provided good guidelines for drinking responsibly. </p>

<p>For new to USNA if it has not been explained</p>

<p>Plebes cannot drink during plebe year period.</p>

<p>0 - underage, according to the applicable laws.
0 - if you are driving
1- drink per hour
3 - total drinks for the event you are attending.</p>

<p>Great guidelines to live by for all of us.</p>

<p>side bar note - although drunk driving for teenagers has dropped dramatically, the incidences of DUI for the 21 to 24 crowd has risen dramatically. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"Raising the age to 21 is probably the single most effective prevention effort that we've done for teen drinking in the last 30 years," said Wagenaar, who estimates that as many as 20,000 lives have been saved in car crashes alone as a direct result of raising the drinking age.
But studies also show that more people ages 21 to 24 were killed after the bump in the drinking age, suggesting that the law simply delayed the deaths, according to John McCardell, president of Middlebury College in Vermont, who believes college campuses need to be more progressive in exposing students to responsible drinking.
"It would be hard to say with a straight face . . . that the law has had the effect of reducing drinking on campuses in an appreciable way," McCardell said. "I would argue it's had the opposite effect." <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=341729%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=341729&lt;/a>

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</p>

<p>Even the Marine Corps has lowered the legal drinking age to 18 for certain events.

[quote]
But the commandant’s changes go further than any other service’s policy, decriminalizing welcome-home beer for underage Marines returning from deployment and giving commanders the authority to hold an 18-and-up kegger on base upon a unit’s return from a war zone.
And there’s no need to hide a flask in your sock before the birthday ball, because the commandant has you covered there, too. As long as your unit holds its celebration on base, commanders can drop the drinking age to 18 in the U.S. under “special circumstances,” and even authorize the possession and consumption of alcohol by underage Marines in the barracks. <a href="http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/05/marine_alcohol_070511/%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D"&gt;http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/05/marine_alcohol_070511/

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</a></p>

<p>FYI State by State Alcohol Laws: <a href="http://www.alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/stateprofiles/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/stateprofiles/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>rjr - My view of American college life is, of course, influenced by what I see on a daily basis, and what my colleagues tell me. I also believe that education is a great gift, and one that should be treated with respect. </p>

<p>Ever since ancient times, people have been pointing their fingers at the reckless behavior of wayward youth. One only has to scan the Greek philosophers, or those of the Middle Ages, or Shakespeare, to realize that this is not a novel problem. But what these writers also demonstrate is that there is a direct correlation between this reckless, immature behavior and parental indulgence.</p>

<p>I feel badly for the 'good' students who are adversely affected by their peers' poor behavior. For example: classmates who are forced to put up with hung over, missing, or (I have seen this myself) stoned lab partners. Students who trash dorms and campus facilities - leaving their roommates or "other people" to clean up. All the wasted money, time and resources that have to be spent on law enforcement - at a time when university budgets are very tight. </p>

<p>I also get weary of dealing with the 'helicopter parents' who are eager to bail their children out of every problem and blame everyone else for their transgressions. I think they play a major role in all this, but have never seen one parent figure out how they contributed to their child's behavior. </p>

<p>And I'm not naive enough to think that there are no problems like this at USNA, but I definitely think there are many less. For example, on I-Day all the plebe were drug-tested, and periodic drug (and alcohol) screens are run on midshipmen throughout the year. How many civilian freshmen would be able to stand such scrutiny.</p>

<p>Oh, and the family tree: maternal grandmother was foreign-born, from a foreign military background. Paternal grandmother was widowed and remarried, both Navy. Should've put a "step" in there, but he has been around so long we forget to call him that.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I also believe that education is a great gift, and one that should be treated with respect.

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</p>

<p>It is and it should be, as is our democracy. The lack of respect and appreciation a substantial portion of our society holds to the latter is far more unsettling to me when all is said and done, though the problems may go hand in hand. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I also get weary of dealing with the 'helicopter parents' who are eager to bail their children out of every problem and blame everyone else for their transgressions. I think they play a major role in all this, but have never seen one parent figure out how they contributed to their child's behavior.

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</p>

<p>I wouldn’t lay that issue at just the feet of parents. Children are given far too little credit for their capacity to comprehend and internalize complex issues at an early age and come away with lessons that we would just as soon not have them learn. A sense of responsibility for ones actions is unfortunately lacking in many more places in our society than just some households of college age parents. The notion of responsibility; being held responsible for ones action or more specifically, admitting ones mistakes and dealing with them has become so alien a concept in our culture as to be non-existent in many places. I have four kids and I can say without hesitation, raising kids with a sense of responsibility is a challenge for any parent. </p>

<p>It is also true some parents do become facilitators, whether they intended to or not when they started down the road of parenting. There really is no manual that comes with the birth of your first. Most parents have high expectations for their children and sometimes those expectations do not match up well with the abilities of their son/daughter or even the opportunities they are presented with. It’s easy for a parent to say “failure is a great teacher” when they are speaking in abstract terms. When they are faced with the prospect of THEIR child failing or not making the progress they hoped for many are inevitably drawn back in. I have no problem being my child’s advocate, to go to bat for him if I feel strongly enough about the situation, especially when he was younger but I will not stand in his shoes and take his swings for him. If you are going to do anything as a parent that goes above and beyond I think the best thing you can do is help discover or create opportunities for a child to capitalize on if he/she so chooses. The choice and the responsibility for making it work is up to them. </p>

<p>
[quote]
And I'm not naive enough to think that there are no problems like this at USNA, but I definitely think there are many less. For example, on I-Day all the plebe were drug-tested, and periodic drug (and alcohol) screens are run on midshipmen throughout the year. How many civilian freshmen would be able to stand such scrutiny

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</p>

<p>There is no doubt that your observation is correct, the real questions is what can you conclude from it? Are the participants or is the system “better” in one than the other? I for one would not condemn or paint college freshman with such a broad brush. Mids may very well be more conservative and/or responsible than the average college freshman. Given what it takes to get in that shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.</p>

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<p>rjrzoom,
Many of us share your point of view. "...being held responsible for ones action or more specifically, admitting ones mistakes and dealing with them has become so alien a concept in our culture as to be non-existent in many places." Many of my students think it's only a crime if one gets caught. You're right, the notion of 'Personal responsibility' is pretty abstract for many of our citizens including some of our nation's leaders.</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your wisdom and humor.</p>

<p>fligirl,
If you're on the farm, I assume you mean Stanford, great school. Too bad about yesterday's football game against UCLA. Where were all the Stanford fans? You're not in the Stanford marching band are you? ;)</p>

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<p>usna09mom - you are correct on the farm. I start at Stanford in two weeks. All of my friends for the most part have left for College and here I sit waiting to go. We are on the quarter system, classes do not start for another two weeks. No plans for joining the band.</p>

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<p>I think college is what you make of it, no matter where you are. There are those that will follow the rules, those that will push the envelope, and those that will blatently disregard. </p>

<p>I also think there are different "cultures" associated with each school, even within each school, as to what behaviors will be tolerated and what will not.
In this regard, I believe what sets the SA's apart is that the "line" is clearly set, articulated, and openly enforced. The threshold for tolerance is set very low. Yet, there are those that will challenge it- and most will suffer the consequence.</p>

<p>As profmom said- you have to keep an open mind, ask tons of questions, ( I will add "do an overnight stay"), and from there make your decision as to what is "right" for you. Just remember.... what is "right" for you might not be what is a best fit for another, just as the reverse holds true.</p>

<p>Nothing is "better" or "worse".... it is just a "right fit" or a lesser one. Pick the right one for you- that is the challenge!!!</p>

<p>Best of luck- and enjoy the journey!</p>

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<p>Make a list of what you want out of college, then look at USNA and your other choices to see which gives you most of what you want. This really helped me decide, but in the end it is best to go with your gut.</p>