UT BHP vs Rice MTEC vs Cornell AEM

<p>University of Texas - McComb's Business Honors Program (BBA)
Rice University - Mathematical Economic Analysis (BA)
Cornell University - Applied Economics & Management (BS)</p>

<p>Considering the following criteria:
- Alumni network and school connections
- Prestige and respect in the field
- Initial job placement (particularly investment banking)
- Opening more doors for higher level graduate education</p>

<p>Which of the three schools above trumps the other two in terms of a business-centric education?</p>

<p>(Note: Another factor to possibly consider is tuition fees. Being a Texas resident, UT = about $20K/yr, Rice & Cornell = about $45K/yr.)</p>

<p>Alumni network:
-Where do you want to work? NY or Texas? The strength of the alumni network will vary a lot depending on where you live. If I were to guess, it would be Cornell>Rice>Texas for overall national network.</p>

<p>-Like before, I would think that prestige would be Cornell>Rice>Texas in business. To be honest, the only highly respected business students in the nation who get exclusive access to jobs in their universities are Whartonites and maybe Mich/Cal (I have no clue though). Cornell will open up doors, but don’t expect for an employer to be super impressed whenever you say “I have a business degree from _”. The name of the college is the only thing that will give you prestige. Just being honest.</p>

<p>-Cornell is the only college on that list that is a target school for investment banks. AEM majors do not get exclusive access not offered to other Cornell majors to jobs in investment banking. </p>

<p>-This is a dumb question. The only real options for business majors for graduate education for business majors are masters of finance and MBAs, both in which care a lot about work experience. Look into admissions to MBA programs and you shouldn’t have too hard of a time understanding it. None of these schools would restrict your ability to get into an MBA program directly, but some may lead to less than impressive jobs according to HBS/Wharton/Stanford/etc.</p>

<p>To finish this up, you need to seriously look deeper into business. As a Cornell student, the AEM program is nothing fantastically viewed in my opinion, although it is one of only ~5 undergraduate target business programs nationally. MBA programs are increasingly wanting to diversify their classes from just business majors. Investment banks are increasingly opening up slots for engineers/mathematicians. </p>

<p>You need to seriously look deeper into this. As someone who talks to a lot of freshman at Cornell, I don’t think you’ll end up making it through to banking just because you lack so much research on it. Not to be arrogant, but if you did an ounce of research, you would know the answer to nearly every question is Cornell. You need to look into what you actually want to major in and insure that you have a back-up plan because you have no idea how healthy the financial market will be when you graduate or if you are even a good fit for firms.</p>

<p>I appreciate the response, biting as it may have been.</p>

<p>The reason I posed the question in the way that I did is because there were key educational differences within each school. Rice doesn’t have its own business program - it offers a liberal arts degree. Cornell’s business school is primarily hotel administration based and AEM, as an exception, is within the college of agriculture and natural science. UT’s McComb’s BHP may have more limited national prestige, but it’s undergraduate business school is ranked in the top 10 schools in the nation. </p>

<p>I was wondering how these strengths and weaknesses play out against one another in a plethora of fields - not necessarily only investment banking.</p>

<p>You may not have meant to come across as arrogant, but you need to avoid jumping to conclusions. You cannot judge my potential simply by picking apart a question I chose to ask, however erroneously phrased you found it to be.</p>

<p>I have seen at Rice that if you really want to get into consulting or investment banking (Texas offices not NY), you won’t have any trouble breaking in as long as you put in the effort (get the connections etc).</p>

<p>Yet Texas investment banking opportunities are extremely limiting relative to the east coast.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if you understand business at Cornell. </p>

<p>-First of all, I need to stress that business people get ZERO advantage at getting business jobs. In fact, Operations Research and Engineering majors get hooked up with some really nice gigs (<a href=“http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/resources/career_services/students/statistics/upload/ORIE2012-2.pdf[/url]”>http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/resources/career_services/students/statistics/upload/ORIE2012-2.pdf&lt;/a&gt;). Princeton’s ORFE program is equally impressive: <a href=“http://orfe.princeton.edu/sites/orfe.princeton.edu/files/documents/Student%20Placement.pdf[/url]”>http://orfe.princeton.edu/sites/orfe.princeton.edu/files/documents/Student%20Placement.pdf&lt;/a&gt;. Many business students can only dream of getting hired by those most popular employers. The reason why I am saying this is because they look for people who are most intelligent, which oftentimes does not agree with exclusively business students. I strongly suggest that you make sure that such a program wouldn’t interest you. </p>

<p>-AEM is not the exception of business at Cornell. AEM IS business at Cornell. Hotel administration is completely different and I believe ~20% of hotelies break into finance.</p>

<p>-Here is companies that recently hire Cornell business students: [Charles</a> H. Dyson School: Careers](<a href=“Applied Economics and Management Degree Program | Cornell Dyson”>Applied Economics and Management Degree Program | Cornell Dyson)</p>

<p>Interpret that as you like. It is pretty good for business undergrad (again, only Wharton beats AEM in investment banking). However, you will not find a group of people with better placement than the more technical majors at these ivy league universities.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>And perhaps not taking the generous but entirely uneducated advice offered by our Cornellian friend. Let me blunt, that poster has obviously no clue about the BHP program at UT-Austin. Not only has it little to do with the general school in terms of selectivity, but also little in common with the already prestigious McCombs business school. </p>

<p>It is OK to not knowing, but you should avoid the type of Cornell>Rice>UT non sense when UT stands for BHP. Please note that BHP is well regarded and high on the list of your usual cast of characters that recruit at the top business and economics college.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Let me correct that for you. It is pretty good for business undergrad. Again, only Wharton beats AEM among UG business schools at the ivy league universities. Of course, since only two schools find it necessary to offer a business degree, one could say Cornell business it at the bottom of the Ivy League.</p>

<p>“Please note that BHP is well regarded and high on the list of your usual cast of characters that recruit at the top business and economics college.”</p>

<p>Yet, it is not even a slight target for investment banks, so I completely disagree with that statement.</p>

<p>"Of course, since only two schools find it necessary to offer a business degree, one could say Cornell business it at the bottom of the Ivy League. "</p>

<p>I completely agree that AEM<Wharton and thus it is the “worse” of the ivy league (how dumb does that sound?), but I wasn’t just talking about the ivy league. When you look at business programs exclusively, AEM is a close second to Wharton in investment banking recruiting—that’s all. </p>

<p>If you start looking outside of business programs, if you go to an ivy/northwestern/nyu/mit(ish)/duke/mich/a few others, you can get into investment banking, but that isn’t what OP was asking about</p>

<p>@Cornellian - Your explanations on Cornell business are actually clarifying gray areas between Hotel Administration and the AEM major I had previously. So, thank you for that.</p>

<p>I have also read that the AEM major is approximately 100 students per graduating class, and that many of these openings are given to school athletes. I understand that many technical students also find strong employment opportunities, but why does Cornell choose to limit one of its strongest programs in this way? I know admission into AEM is based largely on “fit” and is highly selective, but 60-70 slots total for a true Cornell business education for upwards of hundreds of applicants almost seems like a recipe for academic injustice. </p>

<p>@xiggi - I definitely agree with you in that I think Cornellian is overlooking the presence of flagship programs not located in the northeast or east coast, UT BHP being one of them.</p>

<p>First of all, I have no doubt that UT BHP is a great business program, but any business program that doesn’t give its students opportunities to IB is not top tier in my opinion.</p>

<p>I have no clue why Cornell does that. I know AEM is young and they will likely be expanding it slowly from what I’ve heard. They need to build its reputation and athletes do great in the business world.</p>

<p>@Cornellian - I have been reading some older posts on the subject of investment banking campus recruiting. Apparently, IB’s do in fact recruit at the school (moreso for BHP than regular students). Granted, many of the reputed companies offer placement into offices located in Texas cities, but I have read there are significant offerings located in the northeast.</p>

<p>Thought you should know; bringing more accurate information to the table.</p>

<p>As someone who is heavily into the IB/consulting scene at Cornell, I keep my position. Texas is NEVER on the list of colleges that get invited to network events/competitions that get included.</p>

<p>I actually just received an email right now and many more colleges are invited to this “event” than most that I see, and Texas business school STILL isn’t on it. Here’s who is:
-Berkeley
-Brown
-CMU
-Columbia
-Cornell
-Dartmouth
-Duke
-Harvard
-MIT
-Northwestern
-Notre Dame
-NYU
-Princeton
-Queen’s
-Stanford
-Texas A&M
-UChicago
-UMich
-UPenn
-Yale</p>

<p>As you can see, these are universities from across the nation and there seems like there’s a pretty even distribution. So if you want to keep “googling” questions instead of looking at reality to try to get the answer you want, that’s completely your decision.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: I’m not saying you won’t be able to get a high end consulting/analyst position. However, banks would rarely come to you.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I have no clue why Cornell does that. I know AEM is young and they will likely be expanding it slowly from what I’ve heard. They need to build its reputation and athletes do great in the business world.<<</p>

<p>CORNELLIAN, I agree with one part of your post, namely when you state … I have no clue! Your posts are echoing the many posts on CC about prestige and IB written by naive and clueless juniors and seniors in … High School.</p>

<p>“I have no clue! Your posts are echoing the many posts on CC about prestige and IB written by naive and clueless juniors and seniors in … High School.”</p>

<p>What are you talking about? I’m sorry that I don’t rigorously follow the fiscal influences of my university and don’t know why AEM is so small. Really, ask anyone on campus and nobody will give you a solid answer. Some will say that it is because it creates a tight knit community, others claim it is because it is younger. You are the completely ignorant one in this situation.</p>

<p>I am long out of high school and I simply said that I had no clue between the IB prestige of two colleges that both lack attention from the financial world. The fact is that top analyst and consultant programs are prestige thirsty; try to get anyone in the industry to tell you otherwise. </p>

<p>I completely disagree that I am prestige centered. I turned down MIT for Cornell and would have turned down Cornell for any school on that list in my last post if I would have seen it as a better fit. When I refer to top tier, I am not referring to ivy league+MIT+stanford+etc. I am referring to colleges that IBs care to visit. They visit those colleges that I listed above and very, very little effort is given to recruit from other colleges.</p>

<p>What I am talking about is your obvious ignorance about McCombs’ BHP. As I wrote earlier, it is to not knowing. Your statement about the recruiting by IB firms are simply wrong. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, the same cannot be said about facts. For the record, BHP attracted recruiters well before Cornell decided to offer a dedicated business program through Dyson. For the record, you might also check the selectivity of BHP and compare to … the Ivy League’s least selective program, and especially one of its lesser selective schools and programs. Wearing Ivy blinders only go that far! </p>

<p>Let Google be your friend, and check some facts about BHP. And that includes the firms that recruit in Austin for internships and employment.</p>

<p>Last but not least, the interest of IB firms transcends the mere existence of … UG business schools. There is a reason why a standard business degree is still considered a weak major.</p>

<p>“For the record, BHP attracted recruiters well before Cornell decided to offer a dedicated business program through Dyson.”</p>

<p>This statement proves that you have no clue what you are talking about. Being recruited into top analyst programs has nothing to do with having a business school at the university. As you must know, most ivy league schools+Stanford don’t even have undergraduate business schools, but they are all well represented in finance.</p>

<p>"For the record, you might also check the selectivity of BHP and compare to … the Ivy League’s least selective program, and especially one of its lesser selective schools and programs. Wearing Ivy blinders only go that far! "
Only 12% of BHP break into finance ([BHP</a> Placement Statistics | McCombs Business School](<a href=“http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BHP/Your-Career/Placement-Statistics]BHP”>http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BHP/Your-Career/Placement-Statistics)). THIS IS LESS THAN CORNELL’S HOTEL ADMINISTRATION SCHOOL; no wonder I hadn’t heard of them being invited to any events. Want to talk about statistics? Here you go.</p>

<p>Oh, so maybe BHP’s strength is just in consulting because 22% of students go into that? Maybe Texas students just hate finance? THAT MUST BE TRUE, right? They claim that Bain, Accenture, Deloitte, Proctor, and BCG all are popular employers ([BHP</a> Top Recruiters | McCombs Business School](<a href=“http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BHP/Your-Career/Top-Recruiters]BHP”>http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/BHP/Your-Career/Top-Recruiters)). That is completely ridiculous.</p>

<p>First of all, try finding a list of business companies that come and recruit out of BHP, because as that list says above “This is a small sample of companies that actively recruit Business Honors Program students for employment opportunities and internships.” Come to campus to recruit? I doubt it. Hire after students go through rigorous networking? Possibly. Let’s search for some clarification—OOPS can’t find any, I wonder why…</p>

<p>In 2010, Cornell’s placement into consulting averaged a $63k salary (<a href=“http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/resources/career_services/students/statistics/upload/ORIE-2010-printready.pdf[/url]”>http://www.engineering.cornell.edu/resources/career_services/students/statistics/upload/ORIE-2010-printready.pdf&lt;/a&gt;) BEATING THE AVERAGE SALARY OF BHP CONSULTANTS LAST YEAR. And they claim that these top consulting companies are lining up on their doorstep when Bain/BCG doesn’t recruit at Cornell?</p>

<p>What a hilarious claim. The more I look into this, the more I understand why they never show up on mailing lists.</p>

<p>" Last but not least, the interest of IB firms transcends the mere existence of … UG business schools. There is a reason why a standard business degree is still considered a weak major."</p>

<p>I have no clue why you posted this. If you read my post, you would have seen that I have said this half a dozen times. However, at Notre Dame, Mich, Cornell, and Penn (NOT texas), a business major is rarely restricting.</p>

<p>@Cornellian, I hear you - don’t think I’m trying to convince myself to lean towards any one program. I want the proper facts with which to compare all options. That being said, I still have a few concerns I want to outline and address.</p>

<p>First, what exactly is the event for which you recieved an email invitation? Yes, I noticed there are several schools from across the nation, but the fact that Texas A&M was on that particular list and UT Austin is suspicious to me. If you were hesitant on the scope of national prestige of UT BHP, then Texas A&M’s business reputation in the field is not comparable. Even in the south, McComb’s beats Mays.</p>

<p>Second, why are you referencing income and percentage statistics from Cornell engineering majors who broke into the financial industry? What you should be using is the AEM statistics to measure business program against another actual business program.</p>

<p>And third, the McComb’s statistics that you referenced to compare against Cornell are not all BHP. If you read carefully, the chart is made from many regular McComb’s</p>

<p>(Sorry, accidentally cut off my own reply.)</p>

<p>*regular McComb’s BBA graduates. BHP students (referred to on the chart as “Honors + BBA”) average a starting salary of ~$63K in all fields. Out of this average, BHPers who choose IB or consulting will most likely have a higher salary than average, which seems to put them on par with the income statistics of Cornell students.</p>

<p>Same goes for breaking into finance. I believe the 12% statistic includes regular McComb’s as well, not the BHP program itself.</p>

<p>Also, you forgot to account for cost of living increases throughout the country! Cornell, offering most jobs situated in the Northeast, will have slightly higher salaries to account for a higher COL. In BHP/McComb’s, while students are given positions in the Northeast, many students are offered positions at firms in Texas, which has a much lower COL.</p>

<ul>
<li>One more note, the UT BBA chart mentions that the ~63K is for BHP students who picked a BBA along with the Honors degree (double majored). BHP students still have the option of majoring solely in general business honors itself, but this is not reflected on the chart. I would think most BHPers double major with a BBA + Honors anyway - much of the curriculum is made to overlap to encourage it. </li>
</ul>

<p>Just thought I should clear that up in case there were doubts.</p>