It is down to two schools. University of Virginia, College of Arts and Science and possibly Batten, or the Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown. Anticipated major is international political economy. Post undergrad thoughts have been law school, or business world. Cost differential is about $48k which would need to be a combo of gov’t and private loans.
Two excellent options that I see as academic peers. I’d take the cheaper, no-loan option (whichever school it is) especially if law school is a consideration in the future.
For IR, GT would have the edge, but I would hesitate to recommend paying 50K more for GT since UVA is the stronger school overall. Also, Law schools don’t care about undergrad school name.
@WildestDream What about UVA makes it stronger? That is the type of info we are looking for at this time. We are aware of the obvious differences like size, location, local cost of living. I think UVA is a better option in the event my son decides he doesn’t like int’l econ as it seems like it can be hard to change majors.UVA has the 5 year accelerated Masters Program out of Batten, but he has always thought he would pursue a law degree over a MPP. We are making trips to Admitted Students days at both schools over the next two weeks to obtain more specific program info and “fit” feel.
I wouldn’t say UVA is stronger overall in any significant way here. But I just think $48,000 is a lot of money to borrow. Paid over ten years, it’s around $500 a month.
If your son was very committed to the program at GT and really wanted to be in DC for internship and other opportunities and really preferred the atmosphere/student life at GT, maybe it’s worth it. Even then, I would doubt it, as UVa is a very good school.
My D is a freshman at UVa interested in studying international/economics/business. She didn’t get into GT (she applied to the College), but if she had she probably would have gone there, as she would prefer DC, and knows GT is more selective (certainly compared to UVa instate) and has a very strong reputation. If GT had cost $5000 a year more after financial aid (and it probably would have), we (and her) would have borrowed more if she chose it. If it was $10,000 a year more, she knew she would be going to UVa. Which would have been fine with her, as she really likes UVa.
The point being that if your son could be happy at UVa then the difference in strength of program (which may not be that great) is probably not worth the difference in cost. Regarding majors: I think it might not be that hard to switch out of SFS (as compared to into it), but if he’s already done a year in SFS it might be a little harder to fulfill other majors. At UVa you can start studying what you want, but it does have a lot of distribution requirements (though GT has some as well). It would be worth looking carefully into what his options are at both schools.
But two really great choices!
IMO, if grad school that has to be paid for (ie, MPP / Law, v. STEM) is on the cards, I would go to whichever is cheaper. Both schools will give plenty of opportunities to prep for IPE or any similar variant.
Your student might have to show a little more initiative at UVa- which is no bad thing! - and will have to self-direct to get the language fluency that is baked into SFS. But not having to figure out how to borrow $120-240K for law school on top of $48K in debt is worth a lot. Being able to take often poorly-paid but career advancing internships w/o worrying about debt payments is worth a lot.
@Wilson98 has your dau. found that AP or IB credits helped at UVA? We are trying to figure out if that is an advantage. Georgetown would transfer about 9-12 credits from what I can see. UVA 29-32 (depending on this years AP test scores). Oddly enough, a week ago the cost to attend the schools was virtually identical. But UVA offered full tuition for 4 years which now makes it the cheaper option. He loves both schools. We printed out the curriculum requirements last night to compare side by side. I keep wondering whether he would really even need an advanced degree with the SFS undergrad degree?
@VAMom23 My D has 31 credits from AP. So far they have helped with things like being able to skip the first courses in Econ, Calculus, and writing, but I don’t know if the credits themselves will be that useful. To fulfill all the distribution and then major requirements will probably take all the classes she can take, so it’s not like she only needs another 97 credits to graduate. But it’s nice that they fulfill some requirements, and she won’t have to worry if she wants to take a lighter load for a semester or two.
A word of warning at UVa; get a 3 in AP language (or whatever else is needed for the language requirement) or they make you take through the end of two years of foreign language! My D is not happy about how that has worked out.
I suppose whether your son would need another degree after SFS would depend on what he would want to do. Other than doing something academic or being a lawyer, I’m sure there are lots of possibilities with a degree from either SFS or UVa.
With a cost differential of $48,000 per year for one intending to go to graduate school for law or business, I assume that this is a trick question. If not, save the $48,000 per year for graduate school tuition, room & board.
@Publisher the $48k is a total over 4 years. If it was an annual cost, the answer would have been clear.
@Wilson98 Unfortunately, my son never took the AP foreign lang. exam. Had we realized the potential benefit, he would have registered for the test to see if he could place out of the lang. At this point, regardless of whether he attends Georgetown or UVA, it looks like he will have languages for two years. It’s a hefty chunk of course work
Since the annual cost difference is just $48,000, Georgetown SFS looks much more enticing. Still depends upon Batten Scholar status & benefits.
I would pick Georgetown for only $12,000 more per year. It is worth it for the strength of the major, name recognition, and location.
Correction to my post #11 above: Annual difference of just $12,000 (not $48,000).
Since the $48,000 would be in a combination of government & private loans, it is important to know the benefits of being a Batten Scholar at UVA undergrad.
@VAMom23 UVa does have language placement exams in the summer where it’s possible to score to place out of the first semester or two of language. (Or three or four semesters potentially, though anybody who can score that well may already have done the AP or language subject test anyway.)
Overall, I did wonder if this $48,000 in debt is on top of any other debt at Georgetown. If so, it really seems like it wouldn’t be a good idea. If not, and that would be the total debt for parents and student combined, it could be worth it for a school that has really clear advantages in eventual outcome. I just don’t know if the advantages are that clear in this case.
I’d argue that for a student looking to study IR, complete fluency in at least one other language is very important so I would think one would want to continue language learning in college anyway unless they’ve mastered that fluency in high school, which isn’t common.
Thanks, @Wilson98. My son has a full academic scholarship to UVA, and would only pay room and board which he and I have saved enough to cover the full 4 years. The need based aid from GU would leave a deficit of $12k a year (which of course could change year to year) on the tuition, hence the loans.
@Publisher Batten is a separate school of Leadership and Public Policy at UVA. Students apply at the end of their Sophmore year for admittance. The degree from UVA would be a BA. GU is a B.S.
Comparing the two curriculum, it seems like UVA requires a lot more “general edu” and “core” class whereas Georgetown is much more focused with classes directly relating to the major. So, no need to “take a science” at Georgetown just to fulfill core requirements.
@doschicos My son realizes that lang. is a requirement at both schools. It is just a matter of how much class room time will be devoted to fulfilling the requirements. So nothing to argue.
for $50k SFS is a better option
@VAmom23 Does his UVA scholarship come with the same rights as Echols Scholars to ignore all pre-requisites and just do the courses he wants. If so it’s a great deal, and makes all the AP credits easily usable. He could also then do the accelerated Batten MPP in four years or graduate in three (although you’d need to check if his scholarship would carry over to the second year of the MPP).
My S18 is seriously considering UVA as an Echols scholar for that reason (which would allow him to graduate in 3 years) compared to Berkeley and UCLA even though we are in-state for the UCs and OOS for UVA.
@Twoin18 I really wish it did. He didn’t get Echols, and I later learned that his “undeclared” major was likely the reason. So, do not apply “undecided!” UVA is changing the AP credit policy beginning with 2018 entering students. Classes that he would have received full credit for this year (like Physics) will not only get him “general” credits at a "“T” level course and will not help satisfy core requirements. We are headed down on Friday for a lunch for scholarship recipients and I will ask about the compressed advanced degree with Batten question. Thank you and good luck to your daughter.