UW-Madison and Grinnell

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I've narrowed it down to these two. Basically, they're total opposites, one being huge and one being tiny, and I can go to either one for next to nothing, since Grinnell offered me $50k in financial aid and UW-Madison offered out of state remission along with a huge amount of grants that make it similarly affordable. I love both of the schools. I've visited UW and plan to visit Grinnell this weekend, which will help me make my decision.</p>

<p>So what do you guys think? I want to study Chinese and Linguistics, and maybe throw in another foreign language if I can fit it.</p>

<p>UW Pros: Beautiful city, much more widely known, relatively strong East Asian languages program, huge alumni network.
UW Cons: Large classes, less attention from professors, less prestigious in academic circles.</p>

<p>Grinnell Pros: Very small classes, plenty of one on one attention, more prestigious, rural atmosphere (which I'm used to), more focus on the liberal arts.
Grinnell Cons: "Oh, Cornell? That's a nice school", lots of drugs and alcohol, overbearing liberal atmosphere, heavier work load.</p>

2

<p>If you were trying to decide between two LACs, I’d talk about which is the better ‘fit’ culturally. But when you’re comparing Grinnell to UW-Madison, you are describing two completely different educational and social experiences. Both options have their pros and cons, as you noted. But the kind of person who wants what Grinnell offers, would probably not be nearly as happy at UW-Madison and vice versa. </p>

<p>I suggest you spend time thinking through what you really want out of your education, what kind of environment brings out the best in you as a student and a person, and where you see yourself in the future. Once you have a little clarity on these bigger questions, I think the choice between the two will be more self-evident.</p>

3

<p>what makes you think that there will be less drugs and alcohol at UW Madison? I thought that was a huge party school (I’m not basing this on first hand knowledge). Anyway, I think you’re grossly exaggerating the importance of partying at Grinnell. Sure, some kids overdo it, but no way does one have to be a partier to have a wonderful experience there. There also is a continuum along the party scene anyway, including many who drink or do substances, but partake while doing other things – ie., getting wasted is not the primary objective of the evening. </p>

<p>I agree with M’s Mom; these are such diametrically opposed choices, you really need to decide what environment will be better for you.</p>

<p>We’re both huge Grinnell fans, but it’s really hard to give you advice here!</p>

4

<p>@M’s Mom
Thanks! That’s a very insightful answer. Our plan now is to visit Grinnell and then visit Madison again on the way back, to help me decide. I’ll keep your words in mind. I tend to lean towards Grinnell’s atmosphere, but I’ve gotten the impression that UW-Madison is considerably stronger in the specific area I’m looking into. Besides that, I think I’d be happy at either school. The size of the school doesn’t really intimidate me. I’m more concerned with the quality of instruction. I feel that the overall quality of instruction is better at Grinnell, but that there are far more resources and opportunities, especially in East Asian languages, at UW, just that you have to have more self-drive to get the most out of the education at UW. Maybe I’m exaggerating the effect of Grinnell’s small size though; they do after all have an enormous endowment. I just wonder whether that translates directly into number of high quality staff in the field I want to major in.</p>

<p>@SDonCC
I don’t think UW will be any lighter on the partying, but I’ve heard many, many times that Grinnell’s self-governance principle leads to next to no enforcement of alcohol and drug laws by the administration. I don’t doubt that UW students party just as hard, but I definitely think it would be easier for an underage student to get their hands on drugs and alcohol at Grinnell. I do realize it’s completely possible to avoid that aspect of either college, though, so it’s not a biggie. Just something I felt like mentioning.</p>

<p>The main thing I’m looking for, though, is a comment on the strength of Grinnell’s language and linguistics programs. I’ve heard UW-Madison’s are very good, especially Chinese, whereas Grinnell feels kinda iffy on it, since, for instance, they only offer two years of Japanese, and Japanese/Chinese are both in the same department instead of separate. Also, for some reason they only offer a Linguistics “concentration” instead of a major, and I have absolutely no clue what that means. Is it similar to a minor, or smaller? I mean, ya, Grinnell seems like the better institution overall, but I’m only going to take a small portion of the classes at a college, so I feel like it’s more important to pick based on the quality of the particular classes I’m planning to take. This is one thing I was planning on hitting as hard as possible during my visits, trying to get names of professors, specifics on classes, and if possible talk to some of my future professors, instead of just sight seeing like I did during all the college visits I went on before.</p>

<p>So, anyone else with an opinion hiding around? If anyone could lay some of my fears to rest, that would be wonderful. Tell me I’m horribly wrong if I am. Heh. For the record, I’m still leaning slightly towards Grinnell, but I think I have to see the campus to really make an informed decision.</p>

5

<p>If you want to get some LAC feel at UW consider ILS and Chadbourne Residential College.</p>

<p><a href=“http://ils.wisc.edu/[/url]”>http://ils.wisc.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.housing.wisc.edu/crc/[/url]”>http://www.housing.wisc.edu/crc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

6

<p>Grinnell is, IMO, one of the great LACs in the nation. If it were located almost anywhere other than the cornfields of Iowa, it would get tons of applicants and be recognized as one of the very best; that’s how good it is academically. On the other side, UW Madison has very good academics—though not the personal attention you’d get at Grinnell— and gives you one of the all-time-great college towns.</p>

<p>I think the big question is whether you’re willing to give up the college-town amenities and atmosphere of Madison in the interest of academics and intimacy at Grinnell. It’s not an easy choice, but it’s not a bad choice. Neither would be an error; either would give you a lot.</p>

7

<p>That pretty much sums up my internal argument, bclintonk. I worry about class sizes and getting lost in the crowd at UW, but I love the school, the town, and the general vibe of it, as well as the enormous potential that feels like I could grasp if I put in the work there. Grinnell, well I haven’t been there yet, so I can’t comment on the atmosphere, but its academics overall seem superior, the classes are much smaller, and the school is more in my comfort zone, coming from another small rural town. The biggest con about Grinnell for me is the lack of name recognition. I’m gonna post in the Grinnell forum soon, asking about it, actually. I think that, among the people in academia and other such circles, Grinnell’s reputation is superior, but UW is almost universally recognized as a great school.</p>

<p>One other option I’ve been thinking about was going to Grinnell for now and maybe revisiting UW if I wanted to continue my studies and get a Master’s or (horror at thinking this far ahead) maybe even further. I can only attend Grinnell for undergraduate, whereas I can always come back to UW. Besides that, I understand doing undergrad and graduate at the same school is somewhat frowned on? I’m not 100% sure how that is looked at by UW in particular, though.</p>

8

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<p>Word. The money / resources at that school are AMAZING. Really amazing.</p>

<p>I can’t speak to drugs / alcohol at Grinnell, but I think the difference is – it’s really hard to escape the party scene at Wisconsin. On certain nights, they just take over the town and it’s really obnoxious and in-your-face. At Grinnell, while I"m sure (like everywhere) there are students who drink / do drugs, it’s not the town rampage.</p>

9

<p>Linguistics at Grinnell is evolving, as they have hired a linguistics professor who will start next year. Right now, the intro course is taught by professors in other disciplines (who have a background in linguistics on some level) and related courses are taken in other departments. The specific linguistics courses will began expanding, and will offer more indepth work in areas such as syntax and morphology, for example. </p>

<p>There is a linguistics table that meets biweekly. The students discuss an article they’ve read, and then branch off into a discussion of other linguistic stuff.</p>

<p>The concentration is sort of like a minor, I guess. There are certain courses that need to be taken for it to go on the transcript as a minor. Here’s the link to the description, but bear in mind, that with the new professor coming on board, the course offerings will only get better.<br>
[Linguistics</a> Concentration - Catalog | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/linguistics]Linguistics”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/linguistics)</p>

10

<p>Spoken like a true Mildcat Pizzagirl. The only nights the party gets to that level are Halloween and Mifflin Block Party and both are easy to avoid and on the decline. Most weekend nights it’s pretty calm on State Street these days with the only “in you face” time maybe at 2:00 AM when the bars empty out. Overall Madison is pretty tame these days with full coffee shops on weekend nights and many at the Union or the Terrace. So it is very easy to stay our of the way of the drunks (many of which are not even UW students but either townies or visitors from other schools).</p>

11

<p>oops, correction to my post above: I shouldn’t have said it goes on the transcript as a minor. I meant “concentration.”</p>

12

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<p>Oh well. Not ashamed of it. “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.” LOL.</p>

13

<p>Large state institutions like the University of Wisconsin—Madison, the University of Michigan—Ann Arbor, and Ohio State University ranked highly as well, as each awarded at least 10 degrees to CEOs on Fortune’s list. Wisconsin stood out among its state school peers, granting 17 degrees to the CEOs, which put the school fourth overall</p>

<p>NU???</p>

<p>That old “someday you’ll work for us” cheer at NU when the Badgers are playing down there will sound sadly ironic.</p>

14

<p>Ha ha, some of us deliberately step off the track to the CEO path to work for or own smaller companies. Free Agent Nation. That’s where the action is - you couldn’t pay me to go back to corporate America!</p>

15

<p>In terms of Chinese and Japanese being in the same department at Grinnell, I think that this is not uncommon at schools, particularly LACs. In both languages, Grinnell offers options for students to do advanced course beyond what is offered in courses. For an LAC, Grinnell’s international student population might be the highest percentage in the nation. You really should speak directly to a professor at the school to learn more, though.</p>

16

<p>@SDonCC
Would that new professor mean that a major or minor might be offered next year instead of just a concentration? It’s wonderful that they’re expanding the department, but is it gonna be enough to set up an entire major with just that one professor, or is he just going to improve the quality of what’s currently offered? If you don’t know, I’ll make sure to ask when I visit the college this weekend.</p>

<p>And yes, I was planning on doing my best to get in contact with professors instead of just tour guides if at all possible. That’s one of the things that really irks me about a lot of the college visits I’ve been on, since they’re so much more eager to show you the scenery and give undying praise for every part of the school instead of putting you in contact with the actual professors who could give you the real details on specific classes and programs a student might be interested in. Maybe I’ve just done a bad job of finding information in my past visits, though, since I didn’t really know what I was looking for when I was visiting colleges last summer.</p>

17

<p>are you going on an Accepted Student Day visit? They have a “faculty fair” for an hour, which as I recall, involved various professors sitting at tables in a large open room so that students could walk up and ask questions. The new professor would not be on campus, because he / she has just been hired (or is in the process of being hired). I really don’t know if this means that it would be a major or not. I am pretty sure that you could declare an Independent Major anyway in Linguistics. I have no idea what’s involved, though, but there are plenty of self-designed majors, and I think that there have already been some in Linguistics. </p>

<p>I would write down the names of the professors mentioned on the Linguistics page on the website, so you can look out for any of them at this fair. If none of them are there, then ask someone running the event how you might contact them in person or by email.</p>

<p>There will also be an opportunity to sit in on a class. I would try to get to the day as soon as possible, because they offer limited spots in the various classes for students to sit in on. The reason is so that each class is not overwhelmed with visitors; remember, this is a regular school day for the people there! </p>

<p>My son ended up sitting in on an advanced Econ class where the subject matter was way beyond his comprehension, but it offered him an opportunity to watch how the students engaged in the class, rather than get so focused on the subject itself that he missed seeing the dynamics. Not saying this is always the best way to go, but just an encouragement in case you don’t get your first choice of class visit. </p>

<p>After you have visited Grinnell, it should be much easier for you to figure out how to make the choice between these very different institutions. No right or wrong answer, and even a spreadsheet might not help, because they both have strong benefits; just go with where you see yourself spending the next four years of your life (well, at least, that’s the way I would view it!)… Good luck!</p>