UW Madison Regents OK Budget Request

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Wisconsin
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<p>^That’s a poor answer for our low graduation rates. As it’s been discussed–almost all programs at UW are either not application based, or open to the public after a short time period. These programs often don’t fill up, so any student requiring business, engineering, L&S, Agricultural, Human Ecology, or Environmental courses can pursue his or her degree requirements.</p>

<p>And, as Barrons, mentioned, 2 of the 3 main application-based programs have sophomore admissions. There’s only 2 semesters where the student isn’t an engineering or business student. In those two semesters, the student can either complete gen ed requirements or begin taking engineering/business courses. There’s plenty to do for everyone. </p>

<p>IMO, the problem is that there’s no proactive advising. Students can float through school without ever visiting their advisers. There should be mandatory 4 year plan schedules for each incoming freshman. A student should be visiting his or her adviser once a semester to make sure they’re on track–if they don’t visit there should be a hold on their registration. </p>

<p>These are simple, cheap initiatives to get students actively thinking about graduation. Elite privates often have 85-90% of the class graduate in 4 years. Yeah, part of the reason is because they’re so ridiculously expensive. But it’s also because these privates have advisers holding a student’s hand through the process. UW gives excellent attention to those who seek it. Instead, it should be attending to every student at least once a semester.</p>

<p>You assume it’s a problem with UW, Jiff–probably because that’s your bias. It might be a problem with students.</p>

42

<p>While I don’t see mandates on registration the rest are either in place or being adopted. Every department will have to have a 4 year grad plan (as applicable) for students online as Engineering and Ag do now. But it won’t be a punitive system as they still believe you are an adult and ultimately responsible for your own actions. But more guidance will be there and an early warning system will be in place where you will be told if you are on track or not each year.</p>

<p>Examples</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.engr.wisc.edu/che/current/undergrad/curriculum/sep2009/handbook.pdf[/url]”>http://www.engr.wisc.edu/che/current/undergrad/curriculum/sep2009/handbook.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.cals.wisc.edu/students/majors/Curriculum_Sheets_and_4_Year_Plans.php[/url]”>http://www.cals.wisc.edu/students/majors/Curriculum_Sheets_and_4_Year_Plans.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

43

<p>^There’s good stuff in these 4 year plans, especially in the CALS plan where they individualize the 4 year plan for each student. </p>

<p>It’s still a passive option. I don’t think placing a hold on a student is punitive. It’s a forceful reminder to visit your adviser and make sure you’re on track for a timely graduation. </p>

<p>We already have a REAL punitive system where 2x tuition is charged for students with more than 165 credits. By this point, it’s way too late for timely graduation. There should be smaller reminders and measures along the way. </p>

<p>It’s not just about graduation rates for USNWR. Faster graduation means less tuition subsidies by the state, and more money for other things.</p>

44

<p>The university has to solve its four year graduation rate problem. In these difficult times, the solutions must also come from frugal planning. The time for academic mapping has come to UW. I hope that every department develops such a map for every major offered at this great university. </p>

<p>Internships are another way to supplement a complete education. A well-structured internship program is an economical way to dramatically improve the four-year graduation rate. UW has a vast alumni network that should be tapped. Gaining meaningful credits towards graduation, learning real world applications of knowledge and doing this at a small cost, is a winning solution. </p>

<p>UW has everything it needs to drastically improve its four-year grad rate. The university must take stock of its considerable assets and make the most of them. It takes forethought and planning. Is this administration up to the task?</p>

45

<p>I’m a bit more dubious on giving out lots of credits for interships of vastly varying quality that are difficult to monitor and verify. Engineering has a good co-op program with strict rules and you get about 3 credits for a semester full-time co-op. But you make around $10,000 to offset the time out of school. But it does extend graduation time to at least 4.5 years. I prefer well-trained engineers to those that are rushed through to meet some artificial timeline. Same for teachers. Most take five years to get a degree with a designated subject (math, chemistry etc) and do student teaching. If that’s what it takes to produce quality teachers that’s fine.</p>

46

<p>^^^Agree 100%. Solution: Provide an on-line course with every internship. At night, the student reads via a structured study plan. A test is given at the end of the internship and an essay, describing lessons learned, is submitted. </p>

<p>It takes effort from each department, but such work/study programs can be very enriching. The point is that UW should make it a priority to graduate highly qualified students in four years. How they do it is a matter for the educators to figure out. I am simply providing some ideas from the peanut gallery.</p>

<p>BTW, is there a 4-year grad plan for the English department? I’d like to forward it to my son to get him started early. </p>

<p>I am sorry to sound desperate and obsessed about the four year grad rate. It’s just that I am paying OOS tuition and I have two other kids to educate.</p>

47

<p>At least there’s some recognition, finally that this is a problem. The excuses are so tiresome.</p>

<p>By the way, barrons, U-Va teachers typically take five years to get out as well, but they come out with a Master’s degree.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>There’s actually such a program for business school students–especially in the accounting major. 5 year iMACC students actually have required internships with a corresponding class. </p>

<p>But the objectives of a liberal arts education is different from the objectives of a business school. You can’t sacrifice academic standards for the sake of 4 year graduation rates.</p>

49

<p>The DARS system provides a plan for each major and gives a realtime analysis of where you are and what you need to take. It requires student ID to access the system. This tells about it. It would be nice just to have a printed version as an example that anyone can access. </p>

<p><a href=“http://registrar.wisc.edu/documents/DARS_Students_Quick_Guide.pdf[/url]”>http://registrar.wisc.edu/documents/DARS_Students_Quick_Guide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

50

<p>**Here’s what an English DARS would look like for someone who hasn’t satisfied any english requirements…It’s much more specific in practice, because I had to remove all confidential information about coursework and grades.</p>

<p>This should give you an idea of what the requirements are…But a DARS will not offer a sample 4 year plan or give you any advice. It’ll just let you know which requirements are satisfied, and tell you which courses you used to satisfy each requirement.</p>

<p>It also tells you which courses are eligible to fulfill each requirement within the major.** </p>

<pre><code> -----------------------------------------------------------------
*** DEPTH OF STUDY ***
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ENGLISH - Admission to the Major
** Information only - Admission determined by
Major Adviser

                ** 6 credits of Literature (L)                           
                (   6.0 CREDITS TAKEN)                                   

        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        NO     MAJOR DECLARATION - English (405)                         
               Complete a Major Declaration in consultation with         
               the adviser for this program.                             
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        NO     ENGLISH major                                             
                 ** For majors declared Fall 2005 and later              

               31 credits Intermediate or Advanced level ENGLISH         
        --&gt; NEEDS:   31.0 CREDITS                                        

          -  1) British Literature before 1750                           
                 NEEDS:                 1 COURSE                         
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 215                                 

          -  2) British & Anglophone Literature since 1750               
                 NEEDS:                 1 COURSE                         
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 216                                 

          -  3) American Literature                                      
                 NEEDS:                 1 COURSE                         
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 217                                 

          -  4) American or British Literature for 4 credits             
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 215,216,217                         

          -  5) Shakespeare                                              
                 NEEDS:                 1 COURSE                         
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 219,220,226,417,418                 

          -  6) Pre-1800 Literature (excluding Shakespeare)              
                 NEEDS:                 1 COURSE                         
                SELECT FROM: ENGLISH 359,360,361,362,365,367,368,369,    
                   ENGLISH 400,401,402,405,411,415,416,419,420,425,426,  
                   ENGLISH 434,437,438,440,441,442,444,445,459,605,606,  
                   ENGLISH 608                                           

          -  7) Five I/A level ENGLISH electives numbered 215 or higher  
                 NEEDS:                 5 COURSES                        
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        NO     ENGLISH MAJOR - College Requirements                      

          -  1) 2.000 GPA in all MAJOR/DEPT courses                      

          -  2) 2.000 GPA in UPPER LEVEL work in MAJOR                   

          -  3) 15 credits UPPER LEVEL work in the MAJOR, in RESIDENCE   
                 NEEDS:   15.0 CREDITS                                   

          -  4) 15 credits IN THE DEPARTMENT, taken ON CAMPUS            
                 NEEDS:   15.0 CREDITS                                                                        

        -----------------------------------------------------------------
                       *** QUALITY & QUANTITY OF WORK ***                
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        NO     LIBERAL ARTS & SCIENCES (LAS) credit (108)                
            EARNED:  81.0 CREDITS                                        
        IN-PROGRESS  11.0 CREDITS                                        
        --&gt; NEEDS:   16.0 CREDITS                                        

        NO     TOTAL Degree credits (120)                                
            EARNED:  99.0 CREDITS                                        
        IN-PROGRESS  17.0 CREDITS                                        
        --&gt; NEEDS:    4.0 CREDITS                                        


        IP+  1) TOTAL RESIDENCE:  30 credits IN RESIDENCE                
                   83.0 CREDITS ADDED                                    

        IP-  2) SENIOR RESIDENCE: 30 credits IN RESIDENCE, after 90      
                   26.0 CREDITS ADDED

</code></pre>

<p>CLOSE WINDOW</p>

51

<p>

What utter rubbish. The top Liberal Arts schools ALL have very high 4-year graduation rates. They range from 84% to 91.9%.</p>

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<p>I chuckled at that as well. Just another excuse.</p>

53

<p>Thanks to justtotalk for spending the time and effort showing all an example of meeting a major’s requirements. English is a subject with many choices and not the prerequisites of some majors. Looks like students do get a blueprint for a given major.</p>

<p>Hey folks- can you cut the derogatory comments when you disagree with a post? Keep the level higher and more dispassionate please. Makes the disagreeing poster look bad as well.</p>

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<p>Ha ha, this from you of all people! Physician, heal thyself!</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I think you misunderstood. I was referring to the post suggesting that we include internship opportunities as credit courses throughout UW. Business school already has such a program, but I wondered if internship credits at our L&S colleg misaligned with its objectives. Work experience isn’t really education when outside the business school. </p>

<p>I don’t see how grad rates at UW or elsewhere are relevant–although you’re certainly right that LAC have the best grad rates in the US. The question is if adding internship credits is a reasonable way to improve grad rates here at UW.</p>

56

<p>Here is a link to Michigan’s typical degree requirements site. It is very much similar to UW’s. Most liberal arts degrees have a multitude of options of classes to take so laying out any one roadmap is really not very instructive. I would guess 99% of schools are similar. Othe majors such as engineering are far more narrow in options with many required classes so it’s more instructive to have a standard schedule. Even the FSU “map” for English majors is really very general and mostly a list saying “elective or minor” with a few required classes noted each year. Some in more than one year as you could take it anytime.</p>

<p>[The</a> Undergraduate Anthropology Program in Anthropology](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/anthro/undergrad_students/ughandbook.htm]The”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/anthro/undergrad_students/ughandbook.htm)</p>

<p>[FSU</a> Undergraduate Academic Program Guide](<a href=“http://www.academic-guide.fsu.edu/Maps/MapenglishLit.html]FSU”>http://www.academic-guide.fsu.edu/Maps/MapenglishLit.html)</p>

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<p>Does anyone else get the feeling that JiffsMom and novaparent are the same person? Must be my imagination.</p>

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<p>Hey Madison85, can you cut the derogatory comments when you disagree with a post? Keep the level higher and more dispassionate please. Makes the disagreeing poster look bad as well</p>

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<p>novaparent: My post did not contain ‘derogatory comments’ nor did it show that I ‘disagree with a post’. Now you are imagining things.</p>

60

<p>"At least there’s some recognition, finally that this is a problem. The excuses are so tiresome.</p>

<p>By the way, barrons, U-Va teachers typically take five years to get out as well, but they come out with a Master’s degree."</p>

<p>Could be why the UVA program doesn’t crack the top 20, while the UW is in the top ten.</p>