<p>Unfortunately NM doesn’t also list finalists- if there were more money more would get it. The articles regarding Madison area NMS- why not leave town if you can to experience someplace else? </p>
<p>It really doesn’t matter how UVA does in any parameters- UW can provide an outstanding undergraduate education in many areas. UVA would be off the radar except for one poster with an agenda. Fortunately the other 99+ % of UVA supporters don’t bother denigrating other places. </p>
<p>The point is that a top student can attend UW and find academic peers. btw- 16 year olds who get a 2400 on the SAT typically aren’t wasting their time studying for it. Too many other things to do. They also don’t always get A’s if they don’t care about their gpa being perfect. </p>
<p>Just read somewhere that the increase of 5,000 some students is for ALL UW campuses- not just UW-Madison, btw.</p>
<p>Wow, all the sniping certainly gets old. Here are some real reasons that the UW Madison’s 4 year graduation rate lags some other big publics.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Party school rep leads to more drop-outs. This is observed in the returning sophomore numbers.</p></li>
<li><p>Encouragement starting at SOAR to take only 12 or 13 credit hours in the first semester. Once students start slowly, it is hard to handle a “normal” course load.</p></li>
<li><p>Certain highly desirable majors are hard to get into (Nursing and Bio-Mechanical Engineering come to mind). Often students do not get into the schools they want, take another year of classes, reapply and then get in. If they were set to graduate in 4 years, it is now 5.</p></li>
<li><p>Madison is a lot of fun to hang out in (unlike Champaign-Urbana where I went for undergrad). People are not in a hurry to leave. Relatively lower tuition may also contribute to this “hanging-out”.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Best of luck to all seekers of the truth. :)</p>
<p>All sounds plausible to me. But be prepared for demands that you show statistics and proper analysis to back up your claims. Also you will likely be accused of something. </p>
<p>Put on your pith helmet and chainmail for the coming attacks.</p>
<p>Wow, all the sniping certainly gets old. Here are some real reasons that the UW Madison’s 4 year graduation rate lags some other big publics.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Party school rep leads to more drop-outs. This is observed in the returning sophomore numbers.
At 93.5 % retention rate UW is actually higher than Illinois, Penn St, NYU and a number of others in the top 50. Estimating at least half of these are transfers out the percent of flunkouts is pretty reasonable. Most people buckle down–even the party central kid on the MTV show managed to get with they program before it was too late. </p></li>
<li><p>Encouragement starting at SOAR to take only 12 or 13 credit hours in the first semester. Once students start slowly, it is hard to handle a “normal” course load.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>A. No longer the case starting this Fall i believe. Studies found it made no diference in grades and adjusting to college.</p>
<ol>
<li>Certain highly desirable majors are hard to get into (Nursing and Bio-Mechanical Engineering come to mind). Often students do not get into the schools they want, take another year of classes, reapply and then get in. If they were set to graduate in 4 years, it is now 5.</li>
</ol>
<p>A. I believe every state U has some majors that are limited enrollment either upon first app or later. At UW you get an equal shot with the kid that did better in some other high school to prove yourself. Both methods have drawbacks too. </p>
<ol>
<li>Madison is a lot of fun to hang out in (unlike Champaign-Urbana where I went for undergrad). People are not in a hurry to leave. Relatively lower tuition may also contribute to this “hanging-out”.</li>
</ol>
<p>Chidad, me thinks Stooge’s snide reaction to your post was directed at me. If it was, then he’s sadly mistaken because in point of fact I agree with you on every point that you made. All I’m suggesting is that, for the most point, what you’ve just described isn’t consistent with a top tier university, which is why UW isn’t quite there yet.</p>
<p>It’s much closer than UVa which make barely a ripple in the world when it comes to advancing knowledge–a key function of a real top university. Something that UVa would dearly love to become by its own words and deeds.</p>
<p>Do you two actually draw the line of top tier Universities somewhere between UVa and UW-Madison with opposite conclusions on which school makes it? That is almost as inconceivable to me as JiffsMom hanging around here bashing a school her child chose not to attend.</p>
<p>Both UVa and UW-Madison are truly world class schools and I can’t believe individuals as educated as you two would disagree. Both can be improved of course (what couldn’t?) and the administration at each is working on that.</p>
<p>I know Big Ten schools the best (undergrad Illinois, MBA at Northwestern and multiple visits to all the rest). One thing that is particularly impressive about UW-Madison is the lifelong love that its grads have for the University. Badger spirit is off the charts.</p>
<ol>
<li>Encouragement starting at SOAR to take only 12 or 13 credit hours in the first semester. Once students start slowly, it is hard to handle a “normal” course load.</li>
</ol>
<p>A. No longer the case starting this Fall i believe. Studies found it made no diference in grades and adjusting to college.</p>
<p>Actually they did tell us at SOAR to take 12 or 13 credits to start out with. They did not want anyone taking over 16 either.</p>
<p>^^^^ I can confirm that the advisors are still advocating 12-13 credits for freshman at SOAR. According to my son, this was mentioned several times. Fortunately, I had impressed on my son the importance of taking at least 15 credits his first semester. He ended up with sixteen.</p>
<p>My daughter ended up with 14 credits. She wasn’t encouraged to take more or less at SOAR from what I was told. It’s just worked out that way for her. </p>
<p>I agree with ChiDad. And, I don’t really care about comparisons between UVA and UW. I’m tired about reading about it. I’m tired of novaparent’s rants against UW. Go to your school’s area and highlight everything that’s good about it for those that are interested.</p>
<p>CMOM2B, if you are tired of my posts then just don’t read them. No one’s putting a gun to your head. And I’m sorry if don’t think a school can be nirvana when half its undergrads don’t graduate on time.</p>
<p>Let’s say there is a group of Windows computer users that meets regularly. Those at the meeting range from newbies to those with tons of Windows experience. Everyone who comes to the meeting is there to discuss Windows computing.</p>
<p>However, there are also a couple of people who come to the meetings who are Mac users (and big Mac fans). Maybe they have tried Windows, maybe they haven’t. However, they are sure that Windows computers aren’t as good as Macs. These Windows bashers seem easy to ignore the first time they join in a conversation. However, wherever you go at the meeting, they come join in that conversation, too. And, it is always the same “Windows isn’t that good, Macs are better, here’s some data, blah, blah, blah”</p>
<p>You wonder why they came to the meeting at all. Wouldn’t they be happier to be at a Mac meeting? Then, when you go to the next regular meeting, the same bashers show up, acting the same way. You ask someone whose been around a long time and you find out that they show up for EVERY meeting and act exactly the same way. Seems bizarre.</p>
<p>Now, every Windows user knows that Windows has issues (and that Microsoft is always working to make it better). However, even discussions about Windows’ shortcomings are hard to have when the Mac guys are around. It only fuels their fire.</p>
<p>I hope you give this at least some thought.</p>
<p>Listen, ChiDad, if you’d go back and actually read my most recent posts you’d see that time and again I’ve said good things about UW. In contrast, you’ll be pressed to find something “bad” about UW posted on this board by barrons, wis75, or any of the other usual suspects. Prove me wrong and I’ll concede that maybe you have a point. Until then, so far as I’m concerned, you’re just another one-sided poster who wants nothing but one-sided information disseminated on this board – a great disservice to applicants and their parents.</p>
<p>“CMOM2B, if you are tired of my posts then just don’t read them. No one’s putting a gun to your head. And I’m sorry if don’t think a school can be nirvana when half its undergrads don’t graduate on time”</p>
<p>Because they don’t want to and prefer to do other things such as: take some time off to explore, do mulitple majors, do a work co-op, work on a campaign, or maybe just figure out what the really want to do in life without staying on somebody else’s schedule. And you have no proof that it is otherwise.</p>
<p>I love Windows, and my parents, siblings, children, neighbors, co-workers and friends all love Windows too. We love the Windows colors and the Windows logo and the music that plays when you start up Windows.</p>
<p>For Barrons: the link to the recent UW-Madison study - "The Association between First Semester Academic Load and First Semester GPA for New Freshmen at UW-Madison</p>