<p>I have good reason to be worried: our school is in its next-to-last year before it is killed and reborn as a 6-12 magnet (the school is currently 6-10 and 11-12). The students are understandably bitter about what has happened. I have told him that commencement is not the time to protest. Hopefully, someone at the school will give him some guidelines. The 3 co-vals are meeting at the school Monday to go to Heinz Field to participate in a public service announcement, so there is still time for intervention.</p>
<p>My school didn’t rank, and we voted on our speakers (multiple), speech unseen, from a list of volunteers. It actually worked out less like a popularity contest than one would think. IIRC, the speaks broke down as: The student body president (“popular,” but also known to be charismatic and a good speaker – I bet everybody voted for him), the smartest of the “popular” girls (the worst speech, but still not bad), a really quirky girl (not “popular”) who gave a great, interesting speech, and the smartest kid in the class (not “popular”), who also gave a great speech.</p>
<p>Basically, everyone knew they were going to have to actually listen to the speeches so we ended up voting on people known to be interesting and funny more than popular in a traditional sense. Of course, we were also a relatively small school, so at least everyone knew who everyone else was, so I guess that helped? </p>
<p>But, anyway, the point is, while I can see why people might be upset over the change in tradition, it’s very possible that this could lead to there being better speeches at graduation – after all, the Val is not necessarily the most creative writer or best orator. that said, it could also just be a popularity contest – it depends on the school.</p>
<p>Our local HS names a val & sal. Val gives a speech and sal introduces all of the people up on the stage. The top ten are introduced and get to stand. If there are “ties” the co-val/co sal’s share the honors. I like this as there is little other recognition for the top students.</p>
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<p>My son’s school did this, too, and I think it’s a great idea.</p>
<p>Originally, by the way, the salutatorian delivered the *salutation<a href=“i.e.,%20welcome”>/I</a>, and the valedictorian delivered the *valedictory<a href=“i.e.,%20farewell”>/I</a>. These speakers could have been chosen by any means, not necessarily by who got the highest grades.</p>
<p>For my money, I want to hear an engaging, energetic speaker who can enunciate clearly, make eye contact, and inspire with words. I don’t give a crap if you had the highest grades if you speak in mumbled cliches, as many so-called “valedictorians” do. That’s why most high-school graduation speeches suck.</p>
<p>^^I tend to agree – one of the absolute most horrible high school graduations I ever sat through had the traditional val and sal who while earnest and most likely bright were clearly petrified and gave the most boring, cliche, uninspired “speeches.” It was downright painful to watch and listen although thankfully brief. Thankfully that hot day the class president had the audience in tears - both from laughter and from poignancy. We all decided he would become a great litigator.</p>
<p>In My S’s HS (he is a graduating senior) they have changed the rules from next year. They wanted to change it for this year but there was objection that it was announced too late and hence it is effective next year. Till this year only the Valedictorians spoke. From next year there will be two speakers: one chosen from the top 5% of the class and the other from the remaining 95%. Any student can submit a speech and committee of teachers will decide who gets to speak.</p>
<p>It did not affect my S as he was grandfathered in but I did talk to the teacher who had spearheaded this change and asked her the reason. She gave two sets of reasons:
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[<em>]Students may not be good speakers, they may not want to speak and no point forcing them etc.
[</em>]Being a valedictorian involved playing the game right and did not necessarily reflect much more than that they took right classes. She felt that other kids who had done a lot community service etc. should not be excluded from speaking just because their grades were not high.
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<p>I really did not agree with the second point. The purpose of the school is education and student’s accomplishments should not be belittled “just because they played the game right”. That teacher was rather condescending of people who got high grades as she thought they may not be well rounded. All students have the opportunity to choose their courses and what is important to them. If they decide not take AP and honors classes, so be it as it is their choice. If they choose not to play the game, then should not expect all rules will be changed for them.</p>
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<p>I think there is a good point in this. What’s the point to take AP Physics B, AP Environmental Sciences in 12 grade after accumulating 10 to 14 APs including AP Physics C, AP Biology in 9,10,11 grades? It’s better for the kids to take some advanced classes in local colleges although these classes don’t boost highschool GPA (and may bring down GPA if the grades have to be included in HS transcript).</p>
<p>Re the tradition of ALWAYS having the Valedictorian give the speech–I graduated from HS in 1968, one of 11 “valedictorians” (we didn’t use the term, but the State of California used to give us a certificate signed by the governor–Reagan in our case). Our school had for many years prior to that had a competition for giving the commencement speech and to the best of my knowledge that continues to this day. My daughter’s HS did exactly the same thing–had a competition for speaker. I don’t have a problem with this and I certainly wasn’t hurt that I didn’t speak.</p>
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<p>Thats the thing about silly traditions-- they are silly when you are outside of them. It only matters since the expectations are set up to be this way. If the expectations were Vals and Sals get to have their picture in the foyer of the HS, or choose how the class gift is spent, or they get to wear the school colors the month of June— they too would be disappointed if the rules changed (and everyone else would say those things are “just a silly tradition”). </p>
<p>In our world, there are no vals and sals and no one cares (Americans are pretty unique in the world for loving to compete and rank things so much…sometimes useful, sometimes pointless). Kids in our highschool compete with themselves, do their own personal best- there is no information on how they compare to one another, there is no internal competition, so it’s not relevant. One could argue that doing one’s personal best gets you some great college opportunities and to feel a sense of pride. External recognition is not expected nor necessary.</p>
<p>I was a valedictorian back in the age of the dinosaurs. I would have been thrilled not to have to give a speech. </p>
<p>I have never understood what GPA and public speaking have to do with each other.</p>
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Or that the val or sal has something more profound to say than anyone else in the class … that said I’m not a big fan of the students voting for the speaker (which often would be a popularity contest) … I do like the idea of students submitting speaches and a committee picks the speaker(s)</p>
<p>^ That is a great idea, much better than a popularity vote. </p>
<p>Also, I would much rather hear not from a top GPA student but from a student chosen by the teachers (as someone with character- maybe a student who they know has special insights to share based upon a particular struggle, a special life experience or is known to have added to the human good). Top students might be brilliant, mature and special…and they might just be obsessive compulsive grinders who have no life and have not much to say yet.</p>
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<p>Not unique at all. You ever heard of the World Cup? Or the Olympic Games? It looks pretty competitive to me. And spend some time on the International students forum. Those kids from other countries are just as rankings obsessed as the US kids.</p>
<p>^I didn’t say Americans were uniquely competitive. And it makes sense that int’l students who are american-wannabes are fixated on the only data they have access to about schools.</p>
<p>But unlike any other culture I know, we Americans love to internally rank all and everything we can get our hands on. Not just colleges, but highschools, students, hospitals, you name it. Anything that can have a number and a rank, gets one. I don’t know where else in the world the whole population is so into ranking everything.</p>
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<p>And who is there to confirm the veracity of such statement? Are you claiming that other countries do not have public recognition of their high schools students? </p>
<p>Although this is anedoctal at best, I can guarantee that this is absolutely untrue in at least one country in Europe – a country that also happens to leave the US in the dust as far as a system of education. When visiting my grandmother in that country, she was so proud to show me the school records of my father, uncle, as well as my younger cousins’. It so happens that the schools not only have a public ceremony where every student who passes to the next year walks across the stage (the ones who fail are not allowed the honor) but also distribute a booklet that contains the rankings and the composite grades of every student in the entire 1-12 school. Students who score the highest in each subject are also recognized. </p>
<p>How would such a public “sharing” and recognition of grades work for the “statistic minded” American? The reality is that many in America have pushed for the abandonment of individual recognition of excellence and prefer “certificates of participation.” Some love that at the YMCA every participant gets a … MVP trophy. That is so PC, or SPP as in So Parent Pleasing! So, of course, it is so much better to have a graduation that does not recognize the best students, be it valedictorian or top 10 percent … it makes the 90 percent who would not be recognized feel that much better! </p>
<p>And that is what this is all about!</p>
<p>I doubt it. In my world, there has never been Sal and Val-- it is simply never existed or been considered. The word isn’t in the vocabulary and it has no value. And I think it’s about as useful as a number given to a college in USNWR. Why not have the graduation speaker be the one with the highest SAT? Or best attendance across four years? Or fastest runner in phys ed 10? </p>
<p>If a student is a standout, they get heaps of benefits- internal and external. There is no shortage of real life recognition. And it isn’t necessary to place students who excel on one narrow dimension on a public pedestal if they are getting rewards anyway (and if they aren’t getting real life rewards for their achievement, the attribute being ranked is meaningless). </p>
<p>Superficial ranking of students is BS (that is, ranking for its own sake that has no real world value outside of the rank). And if the attribute upon which one is ranked matters, real life rewards will come forth regardless. </p>
<p>Real adult life isn’t full of imposed and meaningless ranks, so why do we do it to kids? Last time I checked, most work organizations typically don’t put numbers next to employees and publicize it: it’s completely unnecessary to do so because talented employees simply move ahead of the pack and are rewarded accordingly. Sure there are exceptions: bunch of car lot salespeople who fight for salesman of the month, the McDonald clerks who might earn their picture in an employee of the week plaque…</p>
<p>Of course, you’re right. </p>
<p>How silly it is to recognize the academic accomplishments of a student at a … high school graduation! How silly it is to have grades in the first place! I am sure that you won’t have many problems finding people who endorse your views; they tend to work in an education system that rewards equality and above all a great equality in … mediocrity. So let’s take all attempt to reward excellence and make sure all our little ones can pass themselves as little geniuses. It works wonders for their self-esteem and their parents’.</p>
<p>How annoying it must be to have to sit through a ceremony that takes a few minutes of your precious life honoring YOUNG people who pushed themselves for four years!</p>
<p>I don’t think the argument is about honoring top students as it is about assuming that a high GPA equals a “right” to be selected to speak to an auditorium of fellow students, parents, and guests. This was/is still a tradition in certain schools but has been replaced by other traditions in some schools. There has been discussion about what is preferred but it would be foolish to argue that one tradition is better than another tradition. The top scholars are the top scholars. It’s generally known, publicized and lauded in various gatherings and forums in the community. These scholars may or may not be publically ranked. This discussion is about changing traditions regarding speakers at the commencement ceremony. I’m not personally convinced that many schools are opening up this opportunity to all schools. I’m guessing it’s a very small number. I do not see anything particularly wrong with opening up the opportunity to speak to a chunk of the top of the class. I see nothing wrong with having a male and a female. I would hazard a guess that the top group at the vast majority of schools is are pretty tightly grouped if you strip out all the variations of GPA calculation.</p>
<p>^^ Xiggi - Glad to see you posting again. We CC oldsters have been missing you!</p>
<p>Once upon a time each graduating class had one Val and one Sal … and the Principal didn’t have to go out to the third significant digit of the weighted GPA to determine which was which. I read today that Bullock HS (there in CA) graduated 59 Valedictorians. Here on CC there’s only one Xiggi … but in today’s “let’s give everyone an A” environment a casual observer might ask “and which number Xiggi are you young man?” Being Val just isn’t what it used to be.</p>
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Ahh, now see? Here’s someone who gets it! Someone who understands that one [Blair</a> Hornstine](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blair_Hornstine]Blair”>Hornstine v. Township of Moorestown - Wikipedia) is a Blair Hornstine too many!</p>
<p>The Annual Burning of the Valedictorian – a new tradition that’s sure to be a hit with the kids!</p>