<p>Oh by the way, you are talking to the general population who can tell you who starred in a sitcom but couldn’t tell you who won the nobel prize this year. It’s great Ivies took the path they did but you know and I know that we can’t have a society made of only Hamlets. Going out on the field, cheering for the team also teaches invaluable life skills. Sandusky was unfortunate but professors are not always innocent. Some years ago, Ivy league Penn professor was arrested in posseion of porno and some other sordid affair. Often, there are hushed rumors involving faculty members, artists, musicians. Was it Lewis Carroll who raped a young girl? Let’s not assume if you get rid of sports you will get rid of sin.</p>
<p>We have many friends whose children attend Penn State, and they are fine hard working students. Some of them have been offered fantastic jobs in big-name companies. Technology, pharmaceuticals, consumer and Wall-street.</p>
<p>Penn State has the largest and tightest alumni association, and I am sure they will do everything possible to keep helping and hiring the smart students there.</p>
<p>But that is not to say that the name Penn State won’t have unfortunate associations for years to come, and while it may not be fair, it is true that’s what will happen.</p>
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<p>Decent flagship university, too much emphasis on athletics, a trait unfortunately shared with most other big public schools (and too many big privates as well).</p>
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<p>I’m not familiar with that incident. Let me ask: Was the president of the university personally involved in the coverup? Did the students riot when anyone was dismissed?</p>
<p><<decent flagship="" university,="" too="" much="" emphasis="" on="" athletics,="" a="" trait="" unfortunately="" shared="" with="" most="" other="" big="" public="" schools="" (and="" many="" privates="" as="" well).="">></decent></p>
<p>Kinda what I thought. Thank you.</p>
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<p>Yes, exactly. Just like Timothy McVeigh had “one bad incident” in an otherwise blameless life, so let’s let him off the hook too.</p>
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<p>Including aiding and abetting child rape?</p>
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<p>How many times would it take? Would your answer change if it was your child in the clutches of Mr. Sandusky at any time after the 2002 incident, when he could have been stopped?</p>
<p>“Decent flagship university, too much emphasis on athletics, a trait unfortunately shared with most other big public schools (and too many big privates as well).”</p>
<p>As an alum of Penn State, I would completely agree with this. However, harsh criticism of the place is unwarranted. Obviously, the administration screwed up big time. Obviously the football program has a big problem. But I would hope and expect that most grad schools and employers would look beyond this scandal and evaluate prospective students and job candidates based on the academic merits of the school. </p>
<p>Many people go to Penn State because it is the best STATE school in their state, not because of the football program. Even though it is the most costly state school in the country, it is what is available to residents of Pa. (although there are certainly some other good low price schools, such as Pitt, Temple, West Chester, etc., that are competitive with it). However, due to the size of the school, there are some majors and opportunities that may not be available at the other smaller state schools. </p>
<p>Please do not assume that everyone who goes there worships football. I never even went to a game. I knew many other students who either never went to a game, went to a few and then gave up on the idea, or gave it little thought. Football is certainly big there, but there are approx. 40,000 students, and you just can’t generalize that everyone feels that same way.</p>
<p>As for the reputation thing, I have one thing to add. I went to grad school at Kent State. To this day, people still comment, “Oh, wow, the place with the shootings…” I then have to point out that, yes, this happened, no, I wasn’t there when it happened, and then I move on and talk about what I did or did not get out of my education. If the Paterno scandal is something people remember years from now, I would assume most Penn State graduates will be able to explain their perspective on it, and then move on.</p>
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<p>Exactly right.</p>
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<p>I would also hope and expect that will happen.</p>
<p>And I would hope (but unfortunately not expect) that parents anticipating sending their kids to ANY school where athletics are worshipped would use Penn State as a lesson of what a sick and disgusting culture that kind of worship engenders.</p>
<p>I have no doubt whatsoever that exactly the same scenario could have played out at any football factory masquerading as a university.</p>
<p>annasdad, Your question in #44 makes me think that you are just as hot-headed as the students who turned over the news broadcast van that night. Since Spanier is not charged, whether you like it or not if you have a cool head, you have to assume or at least allow the possibility that he was not involved in the coverup. Yet you had to jump into “Did the president cover up?” Since we were discussing the affects of sports and institutions, the question was irrelevent even if it has a merit unless you are seeking a controversy.</p>
<p>Once again we are picking on individuals involved in the Penn State scandal. I don’t care any more about Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, McQueary, Curley, Schultz etc. etc.</p>
<p>Can we keep to the topic of discussion: whether the value of a degree from Penn State is diminished.</p>
<p>I feel as if in the right here and now, many students are shying away from applying/attending. However those who do matriculate in 2012 and graduate in 2016 may actually come out ahead, especially if Penn State turns this around and takes some major action, to show that education comes first.</p>
<p>Noticed a photo of my son today- at a drum corps camp - and he’s wearing his Penn State cap. Glad to see it. And we still have no regrets about our decision for him to go there or for him to stay. Yes, we’re paying OOS tuition, but for us and him - we think it’s worth it (for his program, for his goals, etc).</p>
<p>Gee, I ask two questions and that equates me to people who could be charged with felony criminal damage to property?</p>
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<p>Yes, there’s the possibility that he was simply too afraid to ask the obvious question when he was told that Sandusky and a child were horsing around in the shower (which by his own testimony he admitted he was told). Or perhaps that he was simply to obtuse to suspect that something might be seriously wrong when he was told by the AD that there was an incident that made a member of his staff “uncomfortable.” And that his background in marriage and family counseling did not include any training in the possibility that otherwise respectable people might be closet pedophiles.</p>
<p>If you want to believe that, that’s your affair.</p>
<p>i can’t imagine any sane, rational, intelligent human being holding the actions of some sick football freaks against an entire institution. get real.</p>
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<p>So when institution’s reaction to the “actions of some sick football freaks” shows the kind of moral rot that the reaction of the Penn State community shows, that’s not relevant?</p>
<p><<so when="" institution’s="" reaction="" to="" the="" “actions=”" of="" some="" sick="" football="" freaks"="" shows="" kind="" moral="" rot="" that="" penn="" state="" community="" shows,="" that’s="" not="" relevant?="">></so></p>
<p>That SOME (and a SMALL minority) of the community showed. And that minority was fueled by grief, denial, alcohol, and media pressure. (Not excusing it -just the way it is).)</p>
<p>You have 35,000-40,000 students on campus - but you are willing to place all of them into one bucket based on the stupid (probably drunken. overly emotional, partially enticed ) reaction of a small % of those??</p>
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<p>Not just the students who rioted - although I’m not quite as quick to dismiss them as you are.</p>
<p>But also the president, who participated in the coverup, then when the AD and the VP were indicted expressed his full confidence in them.</p>
<p>And the board of trustees, which covered its butt by canning the football coach it had been trying to get rid of for years anyway and putting forth the president as a sacrificial lamb - and declined to take what would have been the honorable course, eliminating the obviously out-of-control football program that has caused all the trouble.</p>
<p>And lets not forget all those Penn State fans (80,000? 100,000?), who less than a week after the situation was revealed, went to the game as if nothing had happened - and many of whom abused the lone soul (an alum, yet) who was willing to show up and tell the truth. ([Penn</a> State Alum Caught Abuse For Protesting Game : The Two-Way : NPR](<a href=“Penn State Alum Caught Abuse For Protesting Game : The Two-Way : NPR”>Penn State Alum Caught Abuse For Protesting Game : The Two-Way : NPR))</p>
<p>“And lets not forget all those Penn State fans (80,000? 100,000?), who less than a week after the situation was revealed, went to the game as if nothing had happened - and many of whom abused the lone soul (an alum, yet) who was willing to show up and tell the truth. (Penn State Alum Caught Abuse For Protesting Game : The Two-Way : NPR)”</p>
<p>Let us not forget the Penn State fans (80,000? 100,000?) who less than a a week after the situation was revealed went to the game in their blue shirts to acknowledge the abuse of children, who shared in a group prayer for those children, who decided to support and not vilify their fellow students who were also football players so that the student-athletes could do what they came to do- play football. Interesting how Nebraska chose to send their football team in spite of the week’s revelations. They obviously could have chosen otherwise. And yes, the “lone” person was abused. Not by all the fans but by some. Ever attended a Big Ten game? I’ve never been to one where everyone behaved with perfect decorum. Have you? Please share the details. </p>
<p>I too grow weary of the attempt to apply the same label to all affiliated with PSU.</p>
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<p>Yes, all those were admirable - and easy.</p>
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<p>They came to play football? Not to study hard and earn a meaningful college degree? I’m SHOCKED!</p>
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<p>Reluctantly. From the link I posted in 57:</p>
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<p>annasdad - You’re incredible dislike of PSU (and similar big, state schools) is obvious. And for me, it means that I take your comments much less seriously and makes me wonder why you even bother to comment.</p>
<p>But are you really willing to dismiss the ENTIRE Penn State student body because of the actions of a small % of the students and the actions of a few arrogant, self-serving men?? </p>
<p>As for the students/alums who attended the Nebraska game…Yes, there were a few idiots, but it was hardly “as if nothing had happened” -
- the traditional pep rally was replaced by an incredibly well-attended candlelight vigil<br>
- the normal “white out” game was replaced by a a “blue out” to support victims of child abuse (and done quite successfully)
- the whole pre-game entry to the field was changed to reflect the seriousness of the situation.</p>
<p>I am a PSU/Blue Band/SHC parent, but that’s it - no other family members are associated with PSU. Shoot, I’m from the south with a son at LSU - so let’s not even talk about football mania! And having lived in Texas for many years, I have experienced the UT/TX A&M football rivalry - but never in my life have I witnessed (well, verbally) the hatred of Penn State and Penn State football that I have seen here. </p>
<p>Really enlightening (frightening, but enlightening).</p>