<p>I am familiar with the culture in a particular sport at a particular Ivy which is not a ball sport but which has very strong, aggressive athletes and much steroid use. Members of the team were known to get in bar brawls and on several occasions seriously injured others. At one point 3 of the team members were arrested and charged with felony assault after a bar fight. The victim had his teeth knocked right through his face. There was some press coverage, then it went dark, then there was a report of the charges being dismissed. The team members had a brief suspension. Known culture. Ivy school. Not a big state university where football is king. Unfortunately, things can happen.</p>
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<p>They continued to tailgate for three hours AFTER the game was over, which was some time AFTER half-time, if I’m correct, unless half time occured three and half hours after the game was over.</p>
<p>My point was not to attack the tailgaters, my point was that the holier than thou attitude is a bit much.</p>
<p>I’m on the record on the Scandal thread as stating I believe there was a cover up at Penn State. But, I don’t think Penn state is alone in this. I think any time you allow any institution to police itself, without outside oversight, you are spoiling for a cover-up.</p>
<p>SEE: DOJ investigating sexual harrassment cover up at Yale. </p>
<p>It’s the system. Not this particular institution, imho. There are bad actors everywhere, in the catholic church, at Yale, at Penn State, at an ashram, in the local middle school…It’s not “football” that causes bad actors.</p>
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<p>Please point me to the earlier post where I had mentioned this? I don’t seem to recall it. Especially since until I read the article linked about four posts previously, which I found and posted for other reasons, I was not aware of it?</p>
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<p>So your point is … that Nebraska is equally culpable?</p>
<p>You don’t know the circumstances, and neither do I. My guess would be that they were contractually obligated to show up and (if they considered the matter at all) figured that it was Penn State’s call as to whether to cancel the game.</p>
<p>But you could be right - they might have said, “Hey, it’s going to cost us a ton of money if we cancel, so let’s just hold our noses, try to ignore the stench, and play the game.”</p>
<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE:</p>
<p>Please cut out the bickering. I’ve had to delete several posts. Keep the conversation constructive or the thread will be closed.</p>
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<p>Cancelling the game doesn’t send any meaningful “signals,” though. Again, one more time with feeling - the individual athletes on the team had nothing to do with this scandal. This is NOT like a recruiting scandal or a points-related scandal where the athletes themselves are the guilty parties.</p>
<p>Nobody has said the individual athletes had anything to do with it. But this idea that canceling the game would “punish the athletes” is nonsense. It’s akin to saying that closing a Wal-Mart for a day while still paying the employees would be punishing the employees.</p>
<p>Canceling the game would have sent a meaningful signal. Closing down the program until an independent investigation made sure that everybody who had any knowledge of the events in the shower room had been purged from it would be even better.</p>
<p>No matter what anyone here “thinks”, any employer or graduate school will have, at the least, a subliminal negative association with any PSU alumni applicant, fair or not for a long time to come.</p>
<p><<no matter="" what="" anyone="" here="" “thinks”,="" any="" employer="" or="" graduate="" school="" will="" have,="" at="" the="" least,="" a="" subliminal="" negative="" association="" with="" psu="" alumni="" applicant,="" fair="" not="" for="" long="" time="" to="" come.="">></no></p>
<p>And this “fact” is based on…?</p>
<p>“fact”???</p>
<p>LOL</p>
<p>I just do not believe employers are going to blame students for this, at all.</p>
<p>Honestly. Right now, we are in the middle of all sorts of “occupy” situations and whatnot, and I really don’t think, unless you had that you were working for the football program from 98-09, I wouldn’t even think about it one way or the other.</p>
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<p>A decent flag ship public school. Better than most, but not top tier public either: definitely not in the same league of Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, or UNC. Below U of Illinois Champaign Urbana.</p>
<h1>1 party school. Heavy Greek scene. Football rules it all.</h1>
<p>That was my impression, honestly.</p>
<p>yes, scifi, that was my “take” as well.</p>
<p>I’ve actually been surprised by the stats posted by various psu posters the past week.</p>
<p>But, Penn STate isn’t a place a lot of kids around here go. So, what would I know?</p>
<p>I know that Penn State has an excellent architectural engineering department (that was my major at UT). That’s the extent of my knowledge about the school.</p>
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<p>For this reason, I would have not recommended this school to either of my kids, even before the scandal, even if the student got into the honor’s program. Even if you are part of the honor’s program, you still cannot run away from the overall culture of the place. </p>
<p>This is just my personal bias. I do not like any university where the core mission of the institution (academics) has to compete valiantly (and often losing) against the athletic mission of the school as a soul of the place. </p>
<p>I let S1 turn down a full ride and go to a different school as a full pay student ($$$$$ tuition - private) precisely because this is a school that truly defines itself as an academic institution more than anything else - no other facet comes even close. School lore is all about famous, super star faculty - past and present, not some sports coach. There is no athletic scholarship and students who are admitted through the regular admission process happen to play sports if they want it. This is the way I like it. By the way, S1 is deliriously happy at this school. A perfect match.</p>
<p>S2 is a full ride at another school - again, I made a point of steering him away from sports crazed schools - though, I have to say, this school has more palpable presence of sports teams, but still NO WAY near the level where they erect a statue of a coach.</p>
<p>Yes, that school sounds like a complete nightmare for my youngest daughter. Penn State is not on her list, but a school without a great football team is like a lake without water for her. What can you do? </p>
<p>This one isn’t going to cure cancer, but she is going to be the type to organize and lead the group off into the middle of Africa to make sure they have clean water, while simultaneously raising the funds to make it happen. AND, she’d like some football and basketball with her education, thank you.</p>
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<p>Certainly sexual abuse of children could happen at another college that didn’t have a cult of football, but I don’t think you can so easily disentangle Penn State’s cult of football from the Sandusky case. It certainly appears he was using his Penn State football ties–his intimacy with the program, if you will–as a lure to get these young boys into situations where he could abuse them. As a Pennsylvania newspaper columnist put it, Penn State football was the candy this pedophile (or alleged pedophile) was using to lure the kids into his car. And knowingly or unknowingly (though it sure sounds like some Penn State people knew something, and for a long time) they let their football program be used this way by not severing ties with Sandusky and/or reporting him to the proper authorities. I don’t blame the players, I don’t blame the students, I don’t blame ordinary Penn State football fans. But the football coaching staff and higher-ups in the Penn State administration are in this up to their eyeballs. So you can’t just neatly sever it from Penn State football.</p>
<p>I don’t think this will hurt Penn State grads in the job market. I don’t even think it will come up in many interviews, which would be kind of tasteless and pointless. I think it could hurt Penn State in admissions (fewer apps, lower yield), in fundraising (got to be a lot of alums not feeling to good about the institution right now), in the budget (as best I can tell, it’s the only “deep pockets” potential defendant out there, so someone’s going to name it as a defendant, which means at a minimum it will have to defend, and maybe settle to keep the plaintiff’s lawyers from putting on a big, ugly, media circus trial).</p>
<p>An early indicator of how much the brand is damaged: sports logo/school name clothing makers report sales of Penn State gear are down 40%, which they say is unprecedented.</p>
<p>[Scandal</a> hurts Penn State as school and as brand | The Tennessean | tennessean.com](<a href=“http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111121/BUSINESS01/311210038/Scandal-hurts-Penn-State-school-brand]Scandal”>http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111121/BUSINESS01/311210038/Scandal-hurts-Penn-State-school-brand)</p>
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<p>nothing wrong with enthusiasm about sport teams. Nobody is condemning sports wholesale. What we are discussing here is, how far will you let the athletics programs define the school and trump the core mission of the school? Whichever way you look at it, if Penn State had not had such reverence for football and bestowed SO MUCH power and prestige on the program to the point that it dwarfs everything else about the school, this kind of coverup would not have happened… The reason why Sandusky was able to do all this for so many years was because of his “prestige” and “elevated status” as a high priest of the Penn State religion - football.</p>
<p>yes, maybe. I have other theories about how organizations which police themselves find themselves embroiled in cover-ups, but I’ve gone on and on about them ad infinitum on the scandal thread and on here, as well.</p>
<p>I like a good balance, myself, and my oldest wouldn’t know a football if it hit her in the head. I’m not even sure if she knows the name of her team. 
ETA: given your SN, you will appreciate, however, that she is the proud owner of a sonic screwdriver and tartus alarm clock.</p>
<p>But, how places like the Catholic Church, or the boy scouts, or Penn State ended up in this place? I’m not sure it was because of football, per se.</p>
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<p>My thoughts exactly.</p>
<p>Do you know that PSU graduates have gone on to Harvard Law and Harvard med, MIT and most of the other awesome graduate programs in the world. My own son got into Yale on a paid fellowship but turned them down to go somewhere else.</p>
<p>The academics at Penn State are top notch. </p>
<p>To also get the excitement of Div 1 college sports is a terrific added bonus. My son has gotten to know some Olympians and other student athletes who have succeeded in their sports to become professionals. </p>
<p>Awesome academics and great athletics in a great college town. People who really know about PSU will not have their minds changed because of this. It just does not make sense.</p>
<p>oh yeah. And don’t forget the student pride at raising $9 milion dollars last year alone for childhood cancer. They do this every year. Right now while you are busy bashing their school they are out there collecting money on the street corners of Pa. $78 million dollars in all. Whats your kid doing at college?</p>
<p><a href=“http://thon.org/Gallery/videos/archives/2010[/url]”>http://thon.org/Gallery/videos/archives/2010</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.thon.org/[/url]”>http://www.thon.org/</a></p>