<p>daveh01…I know about 90 Chinese families that I work with and some that I socialize with because of work. It is rare that a Chinese family is not instructing their children in the evenings way past their bedtime. Most of the families I know send their children to Chinese school, gymnastics, Kumon, piano or violin lessons. Most of these same children are often engaged in schoolwork on the weekend on the day they are not in Chinese school. Most of these children do not have playdates and they are rarely outside playing after school (the parents are working). They also are watched by older Chinese people in the communities that they live in so the majority of their friends are other Chinese children. I could go on but I think I have given you enough information so that you can understand that I have a very good knowledge of Chinese families. I am not being disrespectful because there is much that I admire about the Chinese culture but I do wish the children were allowed to be kids for a tad bit longer.</p>
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<p>My sister graduated from Dartmouth 20+ years ago with English and Political Science majors. Of course, she went off to Stanford to get her law degree.</p>
<p>My parents, right off the boat, never told us what major or profession we had to pursue. It is part of the reason why we do not have a doctor in our family.</p>
<p>Oldfort your family is not typical of the majority of Chinese families that I know.</p>
<p>Consolation–I was just countering that they did not become scientists like Momma’s stereotype. </p>
<p>Kelowna–Doctors and lawyers are not always driven by greed. Just as often they are driven by ego. While they do exist, the altruistic doctor or lawyer is a slim demographic overrepresented by TV and movies. But you know what? This is ok. If someone wants to devote their life to playing god or winning arguments to satisfy their ego, while maybe getting rich in the process, more power to them.</p>
<p>As for the OP topic, this is the primary basis for much of the anti-Asian and anti-semitism in our world. Haters who hate the Asians and Jews are, deep down, jealous of their success. And that success comes from those groups’ strong belief in education and hard work.</p>
<p>Chardo…There is nothing Anti Asian about my post. The only negative that I see is that the children seem to not have enough play time while they are children.</p>
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<p>I want my children to have an excellent education; I’m not sure I could really define the “best” education. But I want them to have that for reasons that have very little to do with their eventual income. Success is being educated and happy with what you do and content with what you have in life; it’s not measured by the size of your bank account. </p>
<p>I think part of the issue in the Asian community is the assumption that excellent educations come from a handful of places (namely the top 20 unis as measured by USNWR) and the complete lack of awareness that a) there are TONS of places one could go for an excellent education in this country, and b) education isn’t something that is dispensed like pills (go to Harvard and you’ll get it, go to your state u and you’ll completely miss out on it!) but it’s something that is, to a large extent, very internally driven.</p>
<p>Asians have higher income…Here is a possible explanation…</p>
<p>Many Asian immigrants from 1960-1980 were intellects with special skills. Due to the US immigration law for Asians, it was very hard to come to the US except to study, often only for graduate school. In many of those Asian countries, you had to take an entrance exam to go to middle school, high school, then college. Unlike in the US where most people with money could go to a college, it wasn´t the case in some of those Asian countries. By the time, one could make it to the US, he/she was cream of the crop of his/her country. Since going to the US was viewed as going to “heaven” (a country filled with gold paved roads), it was the ultimate prize for most of those young people. How did someone get that golden nugget? By studying hard. For a country like India with a large population, competition must have been fierce.</p>
<p>When those tip top students got to the US, they couldn´t compete in humanities courses because of their Engish skill, so they focused on math and other more technical courses. Many Americans also had less interest in major in Engineering, math, physics because those courses were harder, and Americans could easily get a job in marketing, journalism or business. At the same time, those Asians saw they could make a very good living (upper middle class) by being a scientist or an engineer. It is no surprise they would encourage their kids to do that later on.</p>
<p>When I first went into finance 25+ years ago, I could count on one hand how many Asians were there. I went into financial engineering (when there was no such thing). I was employed because of my math background and I was faster than most of my colleagues when it came to my numbers. But in the last 10 years, it has changed. You could see more Asians entering the profession, not just as a number cruncher, but also in the front office.</p>
<p>Asians are not smarter as a general population, and Asians are not only good in math or engineering. There is a lot stereo typing of Asians in the US, and it is because Americans are only seeing small segment of the population.</p>
<p>I would say, however, there is a real phenomenon of Asian students disproportionately clustering into applying to a handful of schools (beyond what would be explained by geography, e.g., Stanford, the UC schools). Are Asian students applying en masse to, say, Haverford, Carleton or Davidson - all top 10 LAC’s - the same way they are applying to the top 10 universities? Why or why not?</p>
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<p>While it is always possible that this is what happens in the world, one would have a hard time that this community hates Asian and Jews, and that it would because of the envy of their successes, which I assume should be financial and academic. </p>
<p>Perhaps, I have been to selective in my reading (and participation) but I think that members have mostly tried to show a different path to the elusive “success” in education to a number of Asians. And, indeed there were times that this required “tough” love --something that the OP found out.</p>
<p>On a personal note, I think that expressing questions about the oppressive tactics pursued by different cultures to gain academic advantages and the occasional looser definitions of
what is ethical is hardly aking to hate and envy.</p>
<p>oldfort: “Many Asian immigrants from 1960-1980 were intellects with special skills.” </p>
<p>That may be the case for those who came to to study. But there are a large number of new immigrants were not intellects, me included. Our parents and many of my friends parents were farmers who did not even finish grade school in China. They worked in restaurants or in garment factories some times making less than minimum wage. I came US in 8th grade and did not understand much English. I sat in class for at least a year before I was able to carry a conversation in English. Our motivation to do well is not that I do not have to work 12 hours a day, six days a week like our parents. We may also be looking to support older sibbling who do not have the opportunity for formal education because of the age and lack of schooling to catch up. My parents did not insist that I study engineering. I did so because math and science were it is easier and less time consumming than humanities. What may take other students to read for an hour may take half the night because every other word is a new vocabulary to me. Many of these immigrant are the same boat as we naturally we pick science, engineering or accounting as out majors in college.</p>
<p>My D has befriended a girl who came from China last year – they are on math team together – and it has really opened D’s eyes as to how difficult it must be to move to another country at age 16, not knowing a word, etc. and having to take classes that are difficult to D in her own native language.</p>
<p>PG, you sounded like just what the admissions experts recommend not put on your college essays…;)</p>
<p>I’m a lawyer and I was in for greed AND ego! Oh wait- everyone hates lawyers and I’m not exactly Bill Gates. FAIL. I DID get an excellent education, though.</p>
<p>Oh, dear – DH was an accounting and comp sci major and then went to law school. Was so eager to earn a fortune he became a faceless gov’t bureaucrat. 
Still works law firm hours, though. :(</p>
<p>My DH is a doctor, he’s not Asian, not Jewish, but a WASP.</p>
<p>Most Asian parents gravitate to science, math and engineering because of their inadequate command of the English language which social sciences require. Even their American born children’s language skills are often not up to par because they don’t hear spoken English at home like other children of US born parents.</p>
<p>However, they are branching out. I see a lot of journalists with Asian names and of course the increasing numbers of Asian designers.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/fashion/05asians.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/05/fashion/05asians.html</a></p>
<p>Interesting posts . . .</p>
<p>Well, as a first generation Chinese-American whose parents moved here I was 7, I would say that in my family, there were always some regrets I wasn’t very good in math and science. Both parents weren’t big on the humanities - Mom had been a math teacher in Taiwan and my Dad was a social science major who went on to library school. </p>
<p>They didn’t quite know how to deal with a daughter who, despite growing up with a significant hearing loss, performed much better in foreign languages and English composition than in math and science. </p>
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<p>My parents spoke a mixture of Taiwanese, Chinese and some English at home. My American husband finds it amusing that I often pronounce English words with the stress on the wrong syllable or would sound out the written English words the way I think they should sound rather than how they actually are spoken. :-)</p>
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<p>“Chaos” threw me for a complete loop (immigrated at age 10). Had to read it out loud in HS English class one day, pronounced it with soft ch as in church, general laughter from classmates and utter confusion on my part. They were all my friends so I wasn’t too embarrassed.</p>
<p>I became another Asian physician, much to the disappointment of my immigrant Asian father, who was a professor of Journalism/Communication Arts at an Ivy, and whose command of the English language would surpass that of well over 99% of ‘natives.’</p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for people who make sacrifices for their child’s education, save up for college, etc. But on the other hand, “a high income” doesn’t necessarily mean “happy.” </p>
<p>When I read about people in competitive companies where employees are “expected” to work on weekends, I think “How miserable.” I guess some people like that pressure cooker life, or the trade-offs they get from their high income make them happy despite all that work. Myself, I would find it miserable. When I think about all the math that engineers have to do, I get the shakes. Some people thrive on math . . . but not me. When I think about what doctors and nurses have to see on a daily basis, I feel nauseous. Literally. I can’t even READ about a lot of medical procedures, my stomach can’t handle it. I’m glad other people like treating patients, because I wouldn’t want to.</p>
<p>So, if your kid likes being in that profession that ends up making the big bucks, that’s great. But I think a lot of kids “follow the money” instead of following a dream. That may get you a lot of money, but not happiness if your heart is elsewhere. </p>
<p>As Douglas Adams said . . . </p>
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<p>Edit: I feel like I rambled a bit, so let me sum up. I think it’s great that Asian parents tend to put a high emphasis on learning and going to school. However, I think judging a group (any group) based solely on the level of income is a mistake, as high income doesn’t necessarily mean high happiness.</p>
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<p>Momma three, </p>
<p>please do share with us what is the total sample size of Asian parents and Chinese kids you have encountered that allows you to draw such a sweeping conclusion with such utter confidence. Stopping short of that, I will accept results of a scientifically run survey of Asian parents and Chinese kids. Let’s see, Asians are about 3% of the US population - that is about 10M geographically spread all over - so I will take any study that takes 1 % of the total size comprising of samples that represent all major geographical areas in US and country origin of their immigrant parents…</p>
<p>Even if you know a fair number of Chinese acquaintances, that’s limited to your social environment and geographical confines. So, you know a few Chinese families, and that suddenly makes you an expert in Chinese culture and then lets you happily extrapolate that wisdom to the entire Asian population? Do you even know how many diverse origins Asian population have? Asians from Far East vs. Asians from South Asia carry very different culture heritages. Perhaps, Chinese, Philippinos, and Indonesians are all the same to you. </p>
<p>By the way, if anyone made such a sweepingly generalized statement about African Americans or Jews, there will be PC police coming after them out of the woodwork…</p>
<p>It is devilishly difficult to define “best education,” but that isn’t even the main point here.</p>
<p>For the moment, I’m going to accept the premise that people who “want the best education for [their] children” do in fact tend to have children who earn more money. Even if this is the case, I can’t help but wonder whether there might be confounding variables causing a high correlation even in the absence of an actual causative relationship. Here are a few possibilities:
- ethnic background (since the OP mentioned it specifically…)
- socioeconomic background
- education level
- career field
- IQ, etc.</p>
<p>So, even if the OP’s unsupported assertion is correct, pushing your kids to attend Harvard isn’t necessarily going to cause them to become wealthier.</p>