<p>I think the higher average income among Asians has more to do with the general emphasis on academic achievement than the kind of fields (supposedly with more financial upsides) that Asian kids are encourage/pressured to get into. </p>
<p>Some eye opening data on SAT score distribution:</p>
<p>Overall average of CR: 501. Asians: 519
Overall average of M: 516. Asians: 591
Overall average of W: 492. Asians: 526.</p>
<p>the difference between the Asian average scores and scores of other non-white segments is even more eye popping. </p>
<p>I think even controlling for the comparatively more lucrative nature of the professional fields Asians are supposedly gravitating towards, the income difference may still exist due to the general emphasis on academic success among the Asian groups.</p>
<p>Well, go ahead and accuse me of whatever bias or stereotyping you want, but I too have never met a first-generation Asian parent (of any background, but the majority I know are Chinese and Indian) who did not think that math and science were superior fields of study for their children than English, social studies, or the humanities. The fact that American-born Asian students do indeed choose different fields to major in is not for lack of emphasis on the part of their parents! In fact, so great is that preference that with the exponential increase in the Asian population in our town, AP English, AP US History, and AP European History are becoming endangered due to low enrollment. For AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Calc etc. there are very long waiting lists. And judging by the SAT data posted, it has nothing to do with inferior language skills.</p>
<p>Only in the last few years have I started to hear some Asian parents acknowledge that science careers might not be the most profitable any longer in the US, so now they are starting to accept business careers (investment banking esp.) a little more.</p>
<p>Why aren’t the whites, hispanics and blacks enrolling in AP history, AP English and other AP classes ? Oh, I see, you think they are too labor intensive so your kids didn’t bother taking them.</p>
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<p>These conditions don’t exist in my geographical areas. All AP classes are oversubscribed, especially AP English and US history. So I see you are stereotyping all the Asians from tales in your little neighborhood ?</p>
<p>As a society, it’s a good thing that some groups of the population are pushing their kids for math and science related field.</p>
<p>Without the infusion of these recent immigrants who are going into the science/math/engineering fields, US will be in serious trouble - many social scientists are seriously worried that USA may loose its position as a center of technological innovation.</p>
<p>We are not world’s best manufacturing society anymore. If we loose the high tech innovation edge, what is the foundation for American prosperity for our children’s generation going forward? Selling more soybeans and corns does not sound like a foundation for $45000 income per capita society. </p>
<p>I am in high tech. Thank God for all the Asian engineers. Without them, we won’t have Microsoft, Google, Intel, Yahoo, Apple, etc. The tech based knowledge industry will simply cease to exist in USA the way it is prospering now. Speaking of which, US congress should find a way to expand the work visa quota for skilled tech personnel.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee, both sons are 3rd generation engineers on their dad’s paternal side.One great grandfather on their dad’s maternal side was a doctor but nobody in the family has pursued medicine since. Science and engineering are still alive in many families, including WASP ones like ours ( to throw out another stereotype!).</p>
<p>What is the average size of an Asian household, 4, 5, or 6? Then what is the average size of a White household, 1.5, 2, or 2.5? The “highest” is no longer the highest in a sense, isn’t it?</p>
<p>we should have more families like yours!!! As for me, we are not doing our share. Neither kid is interested in a career of science and technology.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee,The funny thing is that neither kid fits the engineer stereotype either (which is why I mentioned the stereotype issue in my last post). Some of the problem , I think , is that kids who are into engineering and science are automatically pegged sometimes as nerdy, geeky,etc. That is not always the case (not that there’s anything wrong with that if they are!- The Big Bang Theory is one of my favorite shows, love it). The stereoptypes may keep some kids from going in a direction that they are truly suited for because it is not considered cool by alot of people. Both kids were social, popular, athletic,good looking,etc in high school. Just happen to have skills in math and science . Older son would be waiting to go on the court for the big basketball game while trying to manage AP Physics and AP BC Calculus at the same time. Not easy.</p>
<p>Sevmom is raising very important points. In key Asian countries (far east asian), being in science/tech field is considered cool. Kids who do well in math and science in HS are held up as roll models by their teachers and very well respected by their peers. The nerd/geek stereotypes do not exist. If anything, they are looked as being rather glamorous. </p>
<p>Denigrating math and science kids as awkward nerds who can’t get girls or unfeminine ball busters is a very much an American phenomenon. This may also explain why many Asian kids have no “qualms” about entering the math/science field, while their Caucasian counterparts will use the same “math” skills for economics and investment banking.</p>
<p>By the way, S1 is in U Chicago. When I checked their web site for a highly selective business preparation program for Wall Street hopefuls (this is an EC financed by the school), something like 80% of the kids had Asian surnames. So, it’s a matter of time that the high finance field will see a major influx of Asians, if that had not happened already.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee, You are right about what alot of these kids with math aptitude are gravitating to. Son has gone in the direction of consulting, looking at MBA possibly down the line. People with math skills as well as social skills seem to do very well. That seems to be what alot of employers are looking for. We need those kinds of people but also the kind that can/want to do more general engineering work.</p>
<p>^Any engineering work would require strong math background. It is not just math knowledge. Math is used in other countries to teach general logic, tool that serves well in science/engineering. This type of learning is missing greatly in american k-12 schools. K-12 should be much more challenging and exciting. Boring filling paper busy work is not developing analytical skills. My 11 years old granddaughter, who loves math continuosly being dissapointed with boring math classes at school. I urge my S. to study with her at home, but he does not seem to have time (I understand). This girl is on a brink of hating class, that she used to love. These type of kids who potentially have ‘math’ aptitude might end up being left out of science / engineering because they would loose interest in math classes that are required in these fields. There are schools (Japanese/Russian) organized by immigrants to give kids real math and science background to enable them to be successful in fields that require strong math/science background and keep spark of interest alive. This is not going to get corrected any time soon, since any one who raises concern is labeled “basher” and it stops right there. No, asian kids are not smarter or more talented. They are encouraged to work harder by their parents.</p>
<p>cbreeze, I love how you take my post from another thread about a different topic–time maximization in senior year–and then misrepresent it to prove your point. Note my last sentence about doing what fits YOUR particular school’s classes. Both my kids believed calculus to be valuable and necessary. But the AP Calc BC (notice I said BC in particular) was not well taught in my child’s school and required massive amounts of time for self-teaching. Also, my son found himself not well-prepared for college level work in economics that involved calculus. Given that idiosyncratic experience, we decided it was preferable for D to take calculus again in college (she still took it in high school, but not BC) to learn it properly and spend her time on other AP subjects. As for AP Bio, same deal. Our son’s experience told us it was not well taught in OUR school, yet very time-consuming (not only homework-wise but it was a double block class). By the way, this was also a conclusion drawn by a bio prof at the state flagship who did not allow his daughters to take AP bio at the high school.</p>
<p>Regardless, if we’re talking about labor-intensive courses, AP English and the AP US and Euro History classes are two of the most time-intensive courses at our high school and at many high schools, due to all the reading and papers and massive time periods to be covered. So people who take them aren’t slackers, that’s for sure. But given a choice between labor-intensive math and science classes or labor-intensive English or history classes, if it’s not possible to do both then Asian kids will usually take the former, based on what I’ve seen.</p>
<p>And if you’re implying my kids didn’t work hard because we’re white, well guess again. My S’s GC told him his junior year schedule was the most difficult he had ever seen. My D took all honor and AP classes and worked her butt off, despite not being Asian. Both my kids were, however, the only non-Asians in several of their science classes. </p>
<p>Given that both my kids were accepted to top schools, they hardly shirked hard work.</p>
<p>hyeonjlee…As I said I know at least 90 Asian families. Most of the families that I know are Chinese and many of these relationships have spanned over ten or more years. I would consider myself far more knowledgable than most in regards to the customs and educational views of Chinese people. I should have been clearer when I said Asian but to be perfectly frank the same holds true with Indian families. I can not speak for all other Asians, so I guess I stand to be corrected. As I already stated, but I will repeat it, I was in no way passing a judgement or saying anything negative…I was however saying things the way I see it, hear it, and live it while working along side my Asian clients. If somehow my use of the word Asian was offensive to you than I might want to add that not all white people are the same either so should we all classify ourselves according to our ancesters heritage? I don’t know what your point was but maybe you should reread my post.</p>
<p>“Regardless, if we’re talking about labor-intensive courses, AP English and the AP US and Euro History classes are two of the most time-intensive courses at our high school and at many high schools, due to all the reading and papers and massive time periods to be covered.”
I confirm. The same here. And I am talking about very strong writer with few writng awards. Still most of my D. HS homework time was devoted to endless rewriting AP Literature papers and AP US History tutoring sessions with my H. She has a wall in her head that is hard to penetrate with any history / economy / political type of data/knowledge. But she is used to 100% understanding of any material, just worked extra hard in AP US History, got her “A” and High score in SAT II (do not know why she took that one, except to prove to herself that anything is possible if you work hard) and earned her right not to take History in college.</p>
<p>Well, one problem with looking at this data is that people self-identified their race - and the data in the report does not include those households (2.6%, not much I know) who identified themselves as having two races. My dh is Chinese, immigrated at 24 yr old and I am white. When he came here, having a college major that didn’t rely on his english (writing reports, reading text, presenting) was key. He went into IT. From a cultural standpoint, a doctor is respected because it is honorable not because of the money but because a doctor serves humanity.</p>
<p>In the last three or four years, the most stellar candidates I have encountered for hiring at a top law firm have been Asian women. Particularly Chinese and Korean. That’s a trend that’s being noted in the field as a whole, not just my experience. I’m only aware of a very few who have backgrounds in math or hard sciences.</p>
<p>Has anyone noticed the percentage of Asian students in the top 20 schools studying engineering? All three of my kids have confirmed what I have just said.</p>
<p>That’s a lot! Few people know that many, perhaps including Asians. momma-three’s views should be very valuable to Asians.</p>
<p>Numbers-wise, perhaps only a handful of kids, if not fewer, from the 90 families can be considered smart, many are just hardworking. That can be said about any race.</p>