<p>They are the most hard working kids hands down. The parents are sure to instill the importance of education from very early on. It is not uncommon for a Chinese child beginning at age five, to be enrolled in private lessons for academic purposes (not including Chinese school).</p>
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<p>Humm, doesn’t this example offer the perfect exhibit for people who believe that for Asians the major/career choices are only a means to the end, namely the acquisition of monetary goods or prestige? Not to mention how education in geberal is also a means to an end! </p>
<p>Could the lesser attraction to the engineering and the medical fields be traced to the diminishing “returns” of such career choices. </p>
<p>Of course, there must be a quant on Wall Street who is there for the love of pure math! </p>
<p>PS Hoping for their progeny to find a lucrative career is not exclusive to Asians; the unfortunate part is that Asians do it so openly and with little subtility.</p>
<p>My younger daughter will be majoring something in humanities. She is an A student in math and science courses (this year Physics), but she has no interest in going into any of those majors.</p>
<p>I am Chinese, and I don´t know 90 Asian families. I only know a handful because a lot of my friends are non Asians. I know a friend´s son is in retail (buyer training program), another friend´s son studying UG business, another economics. My niece probably will study marketing or English. One of nephews is majoring economics, and another one is applying to Cornell´s Hotel school this year. </p>
<p>I have to say that I don´t personally know of any Asian kid who is going into engineering, medicine, or science research.</p>
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<p>Other groups did the same a generation ago but alas there was no internet or today’s communications tools to broadcast it so openly. If you go to certain niche sites including this one, you still see it there.</p>
<p>I have to say, just as a matter of decorum, I find these discussions about “asians” to be somewhat offensive, personally. </p>
<p>It is the most American thing in the world to want to do well financially.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine people would just sit around and discuss any other type of person in such generalized terms, as if they were only a demographic. I’m sure we could start to make all sorts of generalizations about all sorts of demographic groups, but to what end?</p>
<p>“My son the doctor”</p>
<p>Maybe Asians pick that up now, but it belongs to non-Asians, I think. Unfortunately, medicine as a field is changing and it won’t be the same in 20 years as it used to be.</p>
<p>Regarding the low numbers of non-Asian kids in top math and science classes, in our district the source of the disparity can be traced all the way back to 4th grade. Between 4th and 6th grades, math tracking becomes cemented. Since many Asian families spend a good bit of time and money in outside classes and tutoring, their children are singularly well-prepared to shine on the math placement testing. Five years of Kumon pays off for them. So if by 7th grade a child has not gotten placed into honors algebra I or higher, s/he will be stuck in a track that will not allow for him or her to take AP Calculus ever. Similarly, since science placement is based on math placement, the same holds true. Children who are taking honors algebra 2 in freshman year are eligible for AP Physics as freshmen, whereas their average tracked counterparts must take earth science. </p>
<p>Intelligence and cognitive ability enter into the equation, of course, but the phenomenon is mostly tied to extra preparation. Here’s where the cultural clash comes in. Many non-Asian American parents, whether right or wrong, value having time for their children to engage in free play outside, hang out at the pool in the summer, play team sports and spontaneous pick-up games, etc. The Indian kids in our neighborhood are never seen outdoors. It’s funny to see the crowded bus stop on the first day of school. I am always shocked there are so many kids because I never see them. And having chaperoned many school field trips of the outdoor variety over the years, I’ve noticed that more Asian than non-Asian kids can’t keep up with the walking pace or complain about being tired. I ask them if they play outside. Most say no, some say yes–their mother sets a timer for a half an hour.</p>
<p>Haven’t read the whole thread yet, who who wouldn’t want “the best education” for their kid? The issue is, the best education isn’t necessarily the most expensive education.</p>
<p>I agree^^. Does knowing umpty ump families or spending time with friends who are Chinese, or having an adopted Chinese child…qualify anyone to make sweeping generalizations about any race? Somehow because it is a positive stereotype about a race makes it ok? Substitute black some of these posts and you would find yourself thinking “eesh, not exactly politically correct” At my undergrad there was an Asian American student group that had a symposium about this type of stereotyping. Still a stereotype even if you get data to support it.</p>
<p>Gladwell explains the cultural difference as having arisen from different agricultural traditions: labor-intensive rice planting and paddy tending, versus a more seasonal planting calendar with time after the harvest, eg. in the winter, for recreation as well as the concept of allowing the land to lay fallow in order to restore fertility (think the non-Asian concept of down time.)</p>
<p>Now that healthcare has become a less lucrative field, makes sense to look into fields where one’s income is not controlled by a third party (ie insurance reimbursement).</p>
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<p>Poetgirl, with all due respect, you might consider how such threads come up on CC! Look at the original post. I don’t think that members start “bash the Asians” whimsically!</p>
<p>While data is the not the plural of anecdote, it remains that stereotypes and generalizations need a strong basis to get traction. The pressure to succeed academically and financially is not mythical. Not only does it exist, but more than a few CC parents have expressed that it is a virtue and not a sin.</p>
<p>Once again, there was no malice in my post. I apologize if I offended anyone. Have a nice day.</p>
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<p>If several children complain of being tired, it would never occur to me to notice their race. I would just see them as individuals especially these are children. Do you notice other people as individuals first and not their race? This really shows your bigotry.</p>
<p>If this were facebook , I’d put a LIKE on post #9 , starbright. well said.</p>
<p>remember that education is from the latin ‘educare’ which means ‘to lead out’. There is a difference between training and education. As was said by the supercomputer of the mind numbed future in Jean Luc Godard’s Alphaville+, “people should not ask ‘why’, but only say ‘because’.” Any civilized country needs as many educated people as possible, else the oligarchical power structures will lead us out - with hooks on our noses.</p>
<p>OUR IGNORANCE IS THEIR POWER.</p>
<p>As long as we’re on latin, ixnay on the sterotypesay. think people. I know lots of regular ol’ chinese heritage people who are into similar things as others.</p>
<p>starbright:</p>
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<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphaville_(film[/url])”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphaville_(film)</a></p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is bashing. We all seem to be saying that as a stereotypical rule, Asians (or at least the few or many we know personally), value education and work very hard on schooling, often with an emphasis on math and science. With great results from that prioritizing of academics, they go on to successful and lucrative careers. Is there a problem? If people were to comment that my kids worked hard, were good in math and science, and had landed great jobs, should I be offended?</p>
<p>If there is any bitterness, it comes from a feeling that people are coming here from outside our country and beating us at our own game. To combat that, we tell ourselves it’s a free country, and so we Americans are free to work just as hard as our Asian friends do and no doubt we’d reap the same rewards. We also admit that it might be true that American kids are a little too lazy and entitled, and should take heed of the diligent example set by immigrant groups.</p>
<p>I haven’t seen the recent movie about a guy who figures out how to lie in a world where no one has learned how yet. As such, he has tremendous power. I think what’s happening is kind of like that. Asians come from a different educational system and a society with different rules and cultural expectations. Their system no doubt evolved to handle the needs of their particular society. But that system brought into ours, gives them a huge advantage. Sure, we can adapt, but it will take time to change our ideas about the parameters our education should have. And there are and will be some who don’t think it should change and resent the suggestion it should. For example, is it good for children to go to school all year round and on Saturdays, is it desirable for them to take classes every summer, should parents restrict children’s free play time a bit more to make room for extra school work? and so on.</p>
<p>“I can’t imagine people would just sit around and discuss any other type of person in such generalized terms, as if they were only a demographic.”</p>
<p>Cough, cough. We did. In prior generations. </p>
<p>This is SO familiar. </p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Makes_Sammy_Run%3F[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Makes_Sammy_Run%3F</a></p>
<p>cbreeze, what you fail to realize is that some of us live in places that are less and less “American.” We see everything changing to adapt to the immigrant populations. The library is purchasing large collections of foreign language books and not the languages we learned in school, former baseball fields are now set aside for cricket matches, our academic calendar has been changed to accomodate Muslim holidays, and it’s hard to find a single non-Asian on the honor roll. As such, people are evaluating their own culture to see what is good to keep and what should change. Many American parents are struggling with whether they should now sign their kids up for Kumon and summer classes so they can be competitive in our schools. Part of the questioning is analyzing what are the disadvantages of the Asian way of life. The fact that I notice which kids are tired is part of that analysis.</p>
<p>^The thing is that the most successful group of immigrants do not push everybody else to adapt to them. Quite opposite, they are the ones who are trying best to adapt to american life as fast as possible. That is the reason for their success. It includes other groups than just Chinese and Indians, who are also very successful. They do not dwell too much about kids being tired or not. You got to do what you got to do, or you are out, period. And if kids are on opposite end of spectrum, being bored with school and everything in their life, they usually find a way to entertain themselves, and it might not be legal. I will choose too much challenge over not being challenged for my child. My adult D. is wondering why she does not care to watch TV. The answer is very simple, she never had time for TV while growing up.</p>
<p>It used to be possible for a child growing up in our country to go to school on the days school was in session, do his assigned homework well, and study hard for tests and he’d succeed. That formula no longer works so well in my town. It’s true that Asians aren’t getting up on a soapbox and telling Americans to change, but their presence and lifestyle is forcing a change nonetheless.</p>