WARNING: Pet Peeve coming: SAT CR= ACT English??

[northeastmom]

<p>

that’s the only thing I can think of; if the SAT verbal included grammar back in the day, they may think that the ACT english is the most similar…still doesn’t explain how the ACT reading could possibly be ignored in this analysis though…reading is reading…

</p>

<p>This is what I was thinking too. Is it a function of, “That’s the way we’ve always compared the two tests” ?</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>This article aknowledges that the SAT verbal is very similar to the ACT reading test. Additionally, they add that 50% of the SAT verbal section is “critical reading” (at least when this article was written). Does this percentage have something to do with it?</p>

<p>From the UT article:

Slightly more than half of the verbal section of the SAT I is critical reading. It measures the ability to read and think carefully about several different reading passages. There can be more than one passage for a given set of questions, but generally it is one of about 400 to 850 words in length. There are many different types of questions ranging from demonstrating knowledge of how a single word is used to the meaning of the passage as a whole. Critical reading on SAT verbal is very similar to ACT’s Reading test.

</p>

[rodney]

<p>well that refutes the logic that is created on table 5 then…
even more confusion…
based on that passage, they SHOULD be comparing ACT reading to SAT verbal as I posted originally…not ACT English</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>rodney, I don’t know why they compare ACT English to the SAT verbal, but schools seem to report these subscores along with the composite and math scores. Now my head is hurts… (JK).</p>

[xiggi]

<p>

xiggi would know the answer to that question: I can’t remember what comprised the SAT verbal before the writing section was created; whether there was grammar on it at all…that’s the only thing I can think of; if the SAT verbal included grammar back in the day, they may think that the ACT english is the most similar…still doesn’t explain how the ACT reading could possibly be ignored in this analysis though…reading is reading…

</p>

<p>The post-2005 SAT test amounts to a combination of the pre-2005 SAT and the now defunct SAT II Writing Test. It’s possible that grammar questions were included in much older versions, grammar questions were not on the 2004 SAT.</p>

<p>The changes of March 2005 were the elimination of analogies and the addition of a series of multiple choice questions related to grammar and paragraph structure and a twenty-five minute essay. On the math side, quantitative comparisons were dropped in favor of more advanced algebra questions.</p>

[ogiedude7]

<p>Ok, so I can see you guy’s point of view, but you guys are forgetting that the English section of the ACT is 45 percent rhetorical questions.</p>

<p>Yes, grammar plays a big role in ACT englsih, but the ACT English is not completely like the SAT Writing section.</p>

<p>In the ACT English, there are several question about the purpose of the passage and there are questions that test your ability to read inbetween the lines to figure out what would happen is certain phrases were added or removed.</p>

<p>The ACT English Tests multiple parts of english usage and mechanics.</p>

<p>So, If they are converting ACT English to SAT Critcal Reading, it wouldn’t be an irrational decision.</p>

<p>Besides, the ACT Reading Section tests more your speed than your reading comprehension. The questions aren’t difficult, but if you can’t read at lightning fast speeds with full comprehension and retention than your in trouble. This in no way tests your ability in understanding passages the way the SAT critical reading does. So comparing the ACT reading to SAT critical reading wouldn’t be the best of decisions.</p>

[raevsky]

<p>Just two points.</p>

<ol>
<li>The info [Admissions</a> Research: ACT-SAT Concordance - UT Austin](<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/ACT-SATconcordance.html]Admissions”>http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/ACT-SATconcordance.html) is based on study <a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/pdf/rr9901_3913.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board; .
This study mentions

Applying the same rationale to the SAT I Verbal and
ACT Reading, ACT English, and ACT Science
Reasoning scores leads to the conclusion that these
scores are not concordable from a content or statistical
rationale. Prediction models are the appropriate form of
correspondence with these scores. SAT I Verbal is best
predicted by ACT English and ACT Reading scores
(and has strong enough of a statistical relationship to
warrant a concordance with the sum of these two
scores).

They mention that correlation between SAT I Verbal and ACT reading is 83%, as well as correlation between SAT I Verbal and ACT English. And 83% is low. That means that predicting SAT I Verbal based on just ACT Reading is not good enough, as well as predicting SAT I Verbal based on just ACT English is not good enough. Correlation is the same, that means both approaches look similar (and both are not good enough). They also mention predicting SAT I Verbal based on ACT Reading + ACT English is much better, and the correlation is much higher - 88%.</li>
<li>SAT I Verbal in old SAT is not the same as SAT Critical Reading. The percentiles are different. That is why those results from p.1 are not necessarily applicable to SAT I Critical Reading.the</li>
</ol>

[TXArtemis]

<p>^ Your point no. 2 is most apt. The UT study is dated 2001. A lot has changed in both SAT and ACT testing since then.</p>

<p>The report linked below shows the “multiple regression equations” UT employed during the 2009 admission cycle to calculate Academic Index for applicants grouped in four categories: business, liberal arts, engineering and natural science. Note that each equation accords different “concordance values” to different subsets of SAT and ACT test scores (the HSR value = High School Rank).</p>

<p>Business – ACT Model
-.630 + (HSR * .015) + (ACT M * .062) + (ACT EngComp * .031)
Business – SAT Model
-2.668 + (SAT M * .002) + (SAT W * .001) + (HSR * .032) + (SAT CR * .001)</p>

<p>Engineering – ACT Model
-1.661 + (ACT EngComp * .045) + (HSR * .020) + (ACT M * .060)
Engineering – SAT Model
-2.254 + (SAT W * .002) + (HSR * .023) + (SAT M * .003)</p>

<p>The Liberal Arts Group – ACT Model
.125 + (ACT EngComp * .046) + (ACT M * .046) + ( HSR * .007)
The Liberal Arts Group – SAT Model
-.285 + (SAT W * .002) + (SAT M * .001) + (HSR * .009) + (SAT CR * .001)</p>

<p>The Natural Science Group – ACT Model
-1.179 + (ACT EngComp * .052) + (ACT M * .051) + (HSR * .017)
The Natural Science Group – SAT Model
-1.617 + (SAT Math * .003) + (HSR * .020) + (SAT CR * .001) + (SAT W * .001)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report12.pdf[/url]”>http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report12.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[rodney]

<p>the only thing that makes sense from all of this is that alot of schools don’t examine this issue…</p>

<p>if what is posted above is true, the best concordance should really be the average between ACT reading and ACT english v SAT verbal…</p>

<p>nbd, no vested interest in this but find it very interesting…</p>

[bovertine]

<p>Edit - Never mind. I forgot the SAT scores were a factor of at least 10 higher than ACT scores.</p>

<p>I’d be surprised to see how well the SAT2 Math level 2 scores correlate.</p>

[raevsky]

<p>

the only thing that makes sense from all of this is that alot of schools don’t examine this issue…

</p>

<p>What I know is Georgia Tech uses ACT English score alone to predict SAT Critical Reading score. I am not so sure about any other place.</p>

[raevsky]

<p>

I’d be surprised to see how well the SAT2 Math level 2 scores correlate.

The study <a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/pdf/cbreport20026_10771.pdf[/url]”>Higher Education Professionals | College Board; mentions SAT I Math vs SAT II Math Level 1 correlation is 0.84; SAT I Math vs SAT II Math Level 2 correlation is 0.77
SAT I Verbal vs SAT II Literature correlation is 0.83. And the borderline for correlation is 0.866 (below is considered low for concordance purposes, above is high)</p>

<p>

The ACT Math test actually has a higher correlation
with the SAT I math test (.89), and the math domains of
these two tests are highly related (Dorans, 1999; Maxey,
1998). SAT I verbal and ACT Reading and English subtests
each correlate .83. “Such correlations are considered
high…(but) are too low to merit concordance tables
and are unacceptable if the goal is to establish exchangeability
of scores, according to Dorans (1999, p. 5).” The
SAT I verbal and mathematical scores have a stronger
correlation with the ACT Composite than they do with
the SAT II: Writing and Math tests (.92 to .87); however,
these analyses were conducted with different samples
of test-takers and a greater amount of range restriction
occurs on SAT II than on SAT I. Both the College Board
and ACT support the use of concordance tables between
the SAT I verbal and mathematical scores and the ACT
Composite because of conditions for justifying a concordance
have been met.

</p>

[bovertine]

<p>^^^
I wonder why I wrote I’d be “surpirsied?” I meant to say I’d be “interested to see.”</p>

<p>And after seeing, I’m not surprised by what you repot up above here.
So much for being clairvoyant :)</p>

[mathphysicschem]

<p>While this thread is extremely old, I feel the need to point out that people who score high on the ACT English section are NOT necessarily rote learners. Some, like myself, have a natural eye for correct grammar and sentence structure and score well as a result of this.</p>

[MiamiDAP]

<p>It is incredulous if they rally compare English section to a Reading section.
ACT English section is known to be the easiest with many have their highest score in this section without ANY preparation. D. said after checking it and getting familiar with the format that English is simply a common sense and she did not need to prepare - which was true as she eventually got a 35. ACT Reading is the most difficult section and the one that is practically impossible to improve for those who happen to be NOT READERS, again, like my D. - her reading score was 28, pretty amazing 7 points below her English score. Those who are great writers and basically prefer writing over reading and wirte with ease will score high in English section. Those who are avid readers will score high in Reading section. These scores do not correlate to each other at all, for god sake, D’s English score was closer to her other scores while Reading was way below everything. </p>