Washington Post article

<p>sevmom- The JMU band, I think, does more in terms of performances outside of the norm - this year they were invited to London for their New Years Day parade, they’ve appeared at presidential and gubernatorial inaugurations, the Macy’s Parade, etc. - I don’t have a child in either band but of the band students I’ve known who wanted to continue and were accepted at both schools, the majority have chosen JMU. A very limited section of students. I haven’t seen the Tech band but have seen the Cavaliers and they are great. So absolutely nothing against the band!</p>

<p>I think there are many factors that could cause a student to select a “lower-ranked” school if they felt the fit was better or they would have more opportunities to participate in activities where their interests lie.</p>

<p>rocknroll52,UVa’s website says the 2009-2010 class was 1230-1440. Not sure of the most recent numbers but are probably at least similar,probably more.
Yuppitt, The whole article is strange and using this kid and his situation as an example was misguided.As you say, VT is great in its own right, particularly in engineering and architecture. UVa is ranked higher overall as a national university(25 vs. 69) of course but VT’s engineering school is ranked higher than UVa’s(13 vs.36). Virginia Tech ain’t exactly chopped liver!
Thanks,sabaray. That makes alot of sense about the band. I agree, I have seen it myself where a kid is interested in a lesser ranked school. Fit is very important. This article,unfortunately, makes it seem as though the only two schools worth going to in Virginia are UVa or William and Mary. That is just not the case.</p>

<p>rocknroll52: I would not say do not apply. You need to analyse your own situation. (note that the 1300 SAT is from a student from Fairfax, an area with many well qualified applicants). One thing for sure is that if you do not apply you do not get in. </p>

<p>SAT score is only a part of you application. Most students will have SAT closer to the upper range of the mid-50% in a highly selective school. If you have SAT around middle of the 50% then you need other things in the application to make it competitive: gpa, ranking, challenge of curriculum, EC, essay, recommendations…</p>

<p>Find data from your school and see how you stack up based on SAT/GPA from students applied/accepted/rejected. How is your EC and recommendation? </p>

<p>Where does UVA stand is your college list? Is UVA too far of a reach? Hope this helps.</p>

<p>thanks davh- yes I meant 1230-1440…I was reacting to the perception above that you need to have 1400+ SATs to even THINK of considering U VA, that just can’t be the case based on that reported SAT range, can it? </p>

<p>I get that U VA is very competitive and looking for great interesting students, but they must be looking for something other than just high SAT scores or that range would not be what it is. </p>

<p>The other moral of this story could be that those highly qualified VA applicants who are being rejected at U VA and W&M will enhance the quality of the other schools like VT and JMU that seem to be regarded by some as “second class.”</p>

<p>One school I don’t see mentioned on this discussion is George Mason University which was noted by USNWR as one of its “up and coming” schools- why don’t more kids from NOVA want to go to GMU or is it just too close to home? Or is it seen as substandard? I see they have an honors college too. How is that regarded?</p>

<p>I am not an applicant myself but have a junior who is legacy U VA that is why I am following these threads to gain more information. She would be OOS.</p>

<p>rocknroll52, There is nothing wrong with George Mason. It is a great school but not for everybody. We are not from northern Virginia (more the southern part of Virginia) but my younger son did apply. He would have gone there if he had not gotten into JMU or VT(he only applied to 3 schools) but it was his 3rd choice. It is a very contained campus with fairly modern buildings, with probably still a little bit of a repuation as having alot of kids that go home for the weekend(although I’ve heard that’s changing). I would guess alot of northern Virginia kids just want to get further away from home. It does have an honors program . It’s up and coming but just not as established in the minds of most Virginians as some of the other schools seem to be. It is not as selective as UVa ,William and Mary, Virginia Tech, or James Madison but is definitely not “substandard.”</p>

<p>

I think most are well aware that offers of admission to any college aren’t deserved when one hits a certain statistic.</p>

<p>I personally don’t care about anyone’s total SAT score. I look at each of the three sections of the SAT (800/800/800 being the best possible scores).</p>

<p>just to cause trouble, i’m linking <a href=“http://myfuture.vccs.edu/Portals/0/ContentAreas/AcademicServices/VCCS_UVA.pdf[/url]”>http://myfuture.vccs.edu/Portals/0/ContentAreas/AcademicServices/VCCS_UVA.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
anyways, this one is legit for first years (see last page) – clearly less selective but still, a blatant auto admission based on hitting certain statistics: <a href=“Freshmen Admissions | Undergraduate | University of North Dakota”>Freshmen Admissions | Undergraduate | University of North Dakota;
then we could also talk about the texas 10%/california/etc</p>

<p>DeanJ- I’m not suggesting that any SAT score alone guarantees acceptance to U VA- a fact that seems clear from the low percentage of applicants admitted- just looking to understand the comments that other posters made above that 1300 scores are not high enough for U VA. Based on the SAT range of enrolled students at UVA, I would have thought than an SAT of 1300 (or 650/650/650) was good enough to at least be considered for admission (understanding that SAT scores alone are not the only factor in admission)? Do you agree or disagree?</p>

<p>I think that in the context of the student referenced in the article, a 1300 was considered “low”. Fairfax is widely regarded as having one of the best school districts in VA; we have no idea if his GPA was weighted, unweighted or what the scale was; I would suspect that UVA looks at applicants with an eye to “did this student make the most out of his educational opportunities”? We don’t know that based upon the information the article is providing us with. The opportunities are going to vary from area to area. The UVA students I know took as many AP and college level courses as possible while still in high school; their GPAs, for the most part, were well over 4.0; they participated in as many meaningful ECs as they possibly could, with an emphasis of depth over breadth but sometimes both; their SAT component scores are over 700. I don’t think UVA Admissions looks at SAT scores as a first cut when considering a student for admission. I would argue that you can’t just look at scores - you need to look at the entire student.</p>

<p>rocknroll52, I’m sure a 1300 will certainly get you consideration. The admissions committee is not going to see a 1300 and outright dismiss it. It just is not going to automatically get you admitted (which is what this kid thinks should have happened).In general, you also would need great EC’s, great grades, great recommendations,etc. to really be competitive at a place like UVa. An SAT higher than 1300 would also make for a stronger candidate.</p>

<p>Folks, I’m swamped and I think you know this. I don’t always get it right, but I try.</p>

<p>Perhaps it’s best for me to step away from College Confidential for now and let you have this discussion without me.</p>

<p>For those of you who find this concerning, you should keep in mind that UNC-Chapel Hill, which is I think very much a peer school to UVA, has an 18% cap on OOS. FWIW</p>

<p>poetgrl, Even if UVa capped OOS at something like 18% like UNC, there would STILL be instate kids that don’t get in and whose families would still be complaining. It’s kind of a no win situation.</p>

<p>Sabaray writes “We have no idea if his GPA was weighted, unweighted or what the scale was; I would suspect that UVA looks at applicants with an eye to “did this student make the most out of his educational opportunities”? The UVA students I know took as many AP and college level courses as possible while still in high school; their GPAs, for the most part, were well over 4.0” </p>

<p>The student took 8 AP courses. In Fairfax County an A was based upon a scale of 94-100. Fairfax County did not provide any weighting boost for honors courses. I don’t recall the weighting factor applied to AP courses (it may have been .5 at the time). Considering the grading scale, the applicant had very good grades while taking a challenging work load. His SAT scores, if equally distributed, were certainly good enough but not stellar. The article also states that the applicant had a fair number of extracurricular activities.</p>

<p>I don’t know what year the student in the article graduated but under the old system in Fairfax County Public Schools AP’s and IB were weighted .5. A 3.9 GPA isn’t stellar when, as the article states, he took 8 AP courses. His whole academic record is taken into account not just the cumulative GPA. He didn’t state his writing score, maybe it was weak. If it was there is a good chance his essays were weak also. Who knows? He got into Tech so I’m not sure what the problem is.</p>

<p>sevmom-- They ought to try living in illinois some time. I do understand their feelings, though. It is a conundrum.</p>

<p>paris79, I’m with you. He got into Virginia Tech so what’s the problem? He’s still complaining about this years later. One of my own kids at VT got initially waitlsited there with a 1360 a couple of years ago. It’s tough all over in Virginia with admissions. If you don’t get into your first choice, make the best of where you end up or transfer out. There are many good schools in Virginia.</p>

<p>I don’t want to be drawn into speculation about individual students and why they were not admitted. It is my opinion that there are many variables that are unknown and it is up to Admissions to put together the best class of students possible. All I can offer is my own anecdotal evidence for what it is worth. Tech is an excellent school; it’s not as if he did not have a wonderful option available to him. Last spring the Post did a similar article on a student with excellent statistics who was not admitted to JMU and was unhappy about it. There are always going to be students who aren’t admitted to their first choice; my child wasn’t. But now she can’t imagine being anywhere other than UVA.</p>

<p>Sevmom writes “Even if UVa capped OOS at something like 18% like UNC, there would STILL be instate kids that don’t get in and whose families would still be complaining. It’s kind of a no win situation.”</p>

<p>According to the Post, 1/3 of the students attending UVA are out-of-state. UVA is the flagship university in Virginia so many parents would like for their kids to be able to attend. As you may know, NoVA is a hyper-competitive area in the state. There has long been the presumption among parents in NoVA (especially Fairfax County) that their kids are disadvantaged when competing against kids from other parts of the state. For example, the grading scale was more stringent; classes more rigorous; and the peer group as a whole is much more achievement driven than in many other parts of the state. While the students in NoVa are well educated, the VA universities are looking for good students accross the entire state not just NoVA. It’s really not possible to advocate that state schools accept more NoVa students than VA students from Tidewater or Southwest Virginia. But out-of-state students are an easy target.</p>

<p>I think parents in NoVA are well aware of the budget considerations that have driven the top state schools to accept more OOS students. But, there are many that would be more than happy for the percentage of in-state to rise up to 75%.</p>

<p>Sabaray writes “I don’t want to be drawn into speculation about individual students and why they were not admitted. It is my opinion that there are many variables that are unknown and it is up to Admissions to put together the best class of students possible.”</p>

<p>The article really isn’t about a particular student. The real issue is how many of the slots at the top VA universities should be reserved for in-state students. Or, for that matter whether there should be any guidelines at all.</p>