<p>That's interesting. No one spoke for the arts faculty at the info session we attended. It was a very personable guy from the admissions department only.</p>
<p>Not sure which info. sessions SS means. We attended the NYU info. session but we also attended the Tisch info. session....two different sessions.</p>
<p>CROSS POSTING - adding details</p>
<p>Partially triggered by my D's somewhat low test scores, we did a lot of enquiring at the different schools in general about their admissions criteria. Please know that when I say 'low test scores' I mean this when compared to the higher end of the posted ranges. My D did take AP classes, and had a challenging curriculum all throughout high school. She also had a very strong EC resume with lots of leadership and community service type activities. </p>
<p>That said, we were told on several occasions (one of them at the conclusion of the summer program D attended, and the other the day of her artistic review) that for acceptance into Tisch, Admissions separates the applications by 'desirable', 'non desirable' and 'on the bubble'. </p>
<p>The artistic review apparently works similarly in that there is a "yes", "no". "may be" result. Once the artistic review is concluded, the results are compared. Those who passed the review with flying colors, and who had already been considered 'desirable' by Admissions, wound up automatically in the 'yes' pile. Subsequently, those whose audition was as or even more impressive, but that had been considered 'on the bubble' academically, also made it onto that 'yes pile'. I guess one could conclude that, in a sense, this implies that "the arts faculty would go to bat for these kids", because the outcome of their audition is what really pushed things along.</p>
<p>I have to say that, considering how large NYU is, I was very impressed by this "holistic" and "reminds me of a small school" approach of the application process. On the other hand, I think it is safe to say that NYU is likely not the best fit for even the most talented kid, who has trouble or even no interest in maintaining something like at least a 3.0 in HS, simply because of the ongoing academic demands that are condensed into two days a week.</p>
<p>To try and de-mystify the admissions process somewhat by gathering a school's incoming freshmen's statistics was one of my "big" contributions (along with travel planning :D) to help condense my D's long list of schools she wanted to apply to last year. NYU had been on top of that list as long as she knew that wanted to pursue a BFA. My job also consisted of helping to remind her to keep an open mind in the process, which she successfully did, falling in love with many programs along the way ;).</p>
<p>MTgrlsmom...your D is a great example. Even if her SATs were lower than average for NYU, they were in the ballpark of students they have admitted, but moreover, she had a strong HS level of coursework, good GPA, leadership, strong ECs, etc. and so those things override or compensate a test score on the lower end. But the test score is still in range of stats they will accept. </p>
<p>I have students with a 2.7 or a 3.0 but who ALSO have no Honors/AP, and who ALSO rank below the 25%tile of their HS and who ALSO have below 1000 on the CR/M SAT or some below 1050 SAT, and no leadership, no significant achievements, etc. and when one combines these factors, their odds are nil. If one were to take ONE of these factors and it were low for NYU, they may be admitted if the rest is not also low. Also, there is a certain level of low that they won't go below no matter what. One can examine the stats of admitted students and the rate of acceptance for certain levels of stats. The artistic review will not override a student who doesn't pass muster in the academic admissions review.</p>
<p>Yes, and stats show 2% of students admitted had a high school GPA of 2.5-2.9</p>
<p>NYQ...what one has to refrain from, however, is assuming that if they have a GPA below 3.0, that they will therefore get in, because it doesn't work that way. For instance, someone with that GPA may have had a demanding curriculum and another candidate who took a much less demanding curriculum will think they can get in too. Further, you can't take one "stat" out of context from the entire profile (and NYU uses holistic admissions as well). If someone has a 2.8 but also has a combined CR/M SAT of 1200, that is not the same as someone with a 2.8 who has a 1000 SAT. Add in class rank......at some schools, a 2.8 might still get you in the top 30% of the HS class and at some other school, that puts you in the bottom 30% of of the HS class (NYU would likely not admit the latter case). Then, figure in the recs, essays, extracurriculars, achievements. Then, there are things you can't control.....for instance, selective universities want a diverse student body.....so they may be inclined to take an under represented minority student who has lower stats than another student or they may take a kid from Hawaii over a kid from Westchester County, NY. They may take a kid with a compelling story who overcame great adversity in life who has a 2.8 GPA but has a very strong application regardless. They may need someone on a sports team and be willing to go lower in the stats to get that person. And so on. One can't draw a conclusion that having a GPA below 3.0 gives them much of a chance at NYU as it doesn't. Add in that the 2% of admitted freshmen that have that GPA are not all from Tisch and the fact is, it is very hard to get into Tisch due to the very low acceptance rate for the BFA in Drama and so even if one could get in academically with that GPA, they might face very tough odds anyway for the BFA due to the much lower admit rate for these students compared to the rest of NYU applicants (from which you drew that statistic).</p>
<p>The problem with trying to be a standout at NYU auditions is that they get the cream of the crop in kids auditioning. THere are just not going to be very many kids that are going to make their eyes pop out. One problem that I have seen in many performing arts parents is that because their kids are such local sensations that they have no idea how many out there want to go into this field. I was naive enough to actually thing that my S's talent, experience and interest in the field was going to be a hook for him. It turned out for him that he could actually get into some competitive schools on a holistic/academic basis, but that MT program was a problem! And this is just the beginning. Look at the lines for open auditions in NYC sometime, and you'll see what I mean.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse....this is so true. Even for kids who are local standouts, it is still very very hard to get into these BFA in MT programs. You can have the talent and the academics and still be denied because they take so few of the total number who apply. Usually, if you are very talented in all three skill areas and have the academics, you will get in SOMEWHERE....so not to fret too much. </p>
<p>But some are not cognizant of the total picture. There are a lot of kids who are very talented in the US....take every standout from every local community or school and that's already a lot of kids. Then, add in kids who haven't risen up locally on the artistic front. I meet many who are quite unrealistic as they have very little experience and have not fared that well locally and their odds are even tougher. Then, add in factors you can't control....like your type and looks and voice type and all that. It is quite competitive even for those who are quite talented. It is harder for those who aren't at the top of their game but not impossible. Having a well balanced list and not just going after the brand name programs is needed. Some only seem to want the schools on everybody's lips and this view is way too limited and unrealistic for the majority of applicants and they need to cast a wider net and be more open minded to explore the many fine options out there. Some get closed out because their college list was not realistic in the first place.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse makes a good point: do NOT underestimate the competition. Not just a NYU, but at all of these well known programs. Believe me when I say that there are plenty (PLENTY) of very talented, well prepared kids out there, all of whom were local superstars and standouts! Two years before my own kid auditioned, a friend of mine was taking her beautiful, talented, well prepared daughter on the college audition circuit. She was very confident in her D's abilities (though far from obnoxious about it!) and was not worried at all about her D's admissions outcomes. That changed as the two went through the auditions process. The mom emailed me one day to say "I am getting nervous here. There are HUNDREDS of beautiful, talented girls who look like our daughters!" (The story had a happy ending: the girl got into several good programs.) But still, seeing those crowds of lovely talented kids all wanting the same place as your kid does can be quite unnerving if you let it. That's why (and yes, we are back to THAT again! ;)) it's so important for kids to have a well balanced list that includes safeties.</p>
<p>Sooze, we cross posted. Great minds think alike, I guess! ;)</p>
<p>Soozievt, I don't have your experience with these kids, but I have noticed that many of the ones from theater groups really have no idea how to truly audition. Many get parts locally and in their schools because they are the best there and have the audacity to "try out". Not really prepare for a real audition which starts with the college process. I know that was our case. I don't think at my son's school, there was much of an audition process at all for plays and musicals. The teacher basically picked those kids who fit the roles, were outgoing, wanted the parts and in the case of musical, could carry a tune. The biggest problem was that kids couldn't talk loud enough in plays to be heard! To go from there to an auditions situation is insane. Had I known, I would have hired an audition coach from the get go. We made every mistake in the book in our process.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse,</p>
<p>In my view, auditioning is a skill in itself. One way to improve is to do a lot of auditions and be used to them. One can have lots of talent but not audition well. This is common. And yes, I think applicants do need coaching on their auditions, vocally and on the acting too. I also see kids who sing quite well but do not act and present the song well, which is very important in musical theater auditions. </p>
<p>From personal experience, my own child had been auditioning her entire life at all levels. She has done it a LOT. Yes, she was used to always getting cast locally. But she auditioned for higher level things regionally. She also auditioned in NYC and professionally (all great experiences). She auditioned for adjudicated things like state level vocal awards and NFAA, and so on and so forth. I feel she learned how to audition and that helped. I'm assuming. And it helps with confidence, in any case. BFA auditions can be nervewracking in that a lot more is riding on the line than being cast in a play. Even WITH all her audition experience and coaching for BFA admissions, she still felt she got better as the BFA audition season went on and in fact, her results bear that out. She started with rejection and moved into acceptances the rest of the season in terms of the order of her auditions. She felt more in the groove as she went through them and by the last few, she thought she had the whole thing down. </p>
<p>I do recommend getting yourself out there and auditioning a lot. And also getting song and monologue coaching for BFA admissions.</p>
<p>While not necessary, it helps to be well skilled in all three skill sets...singing, acting, and dancing (even though many schools will admit you if strong in two and show potential in a third). It can only help to be skilled in all three and I think that also was a plus my kid had her favor. So, for those in HS.....work on training in all three skill sets. It is not enough to only be able to sing.</p>
<p>From what I see, the girls have the disadvantage because of the numbers and because most girls have had dance classes of some sort, so a weakness there is deadly. Too many talented dancers out there. For males, dance experience is much rarer. My son's weakness was very much dance, still is, because he simply never got dance lessons. There are males who were accepted in MT programs because they were very strong in dance which is so rare in males. But once everyone is out in the real world and auditioning for paying parts, that dearth in dancers disappear and many of the talents who did not go into MT during college come out, and look out, there are many, many of them. This is a tough, tough field, no question. This is not like applying to college regularly only with MT as your major. It's a whole different ball game, and then going out after college training it is not the same as being trained in your field with a college education. Something I had to learn along the way.</p>
<p>Re: the amount of "pull" that Tisch (or Steinhardt) has with admissions:</p>
<p>D attended Steinhardt's MT intensive the summer before appying to NYU. Midway through the program the students were told that their work over the summer may count as their "audition" for Steinhardt's MT program. The kids were told to call the school to find out if they needed to audition or not. About 8 to 10 kids were told they did not need to audition. They were "in" on the creative/audtion level.</p>
<p>However, students were told that this did not mean they were in any way admitted to NYU. The director made it clear that admissions made the final decision based on academics, etc. He said he had very little power to get students accepted (even those who he favored artistically) if they did not make it in through admission's criteria.</p>
<p>As it turned out, at least 4 students who had their audition waived did not make it into NYU. Their grades/ SAT's were too low and they did not meet NYU's admissions standards. One of these students was enormously talented, but it was not enough. So if the program director was not able to "fight for" and win admissions for students that he and his faculty had worked with for 3 weeks, I doubt they have much pull or can really go to "bat" for a student they have about 20 or so minutes contact with from in a typical audition scenario.</p>
<p>Again, the director can fight, but he or she will only win if the student is very close to the academic standard. NYU will not accept kids who miss the mark by very much. In the deluge of applications they receive, they have more than enough students with both top talent & top grades to fill all their seats many times over. </p>
<p>We've been told they will approach admissions on behalf of students they really want, but whether or not they "win" would be determined by how close the kids' stats came to the admitted pool.</p>
<p>As far as I know, no kids who did the Tisch/CAP21 summer precollege MT program were permitted to count their end of session audition as their regular college admissions audition. So this is something that apparently only happens with Steinhardt. Nice to know!</p>
<p>NMR....you are correct....all candidates for TISCH must audition in their senior year no matter if they ever attending any summer programs at Tisch/CAP or CAP.</p>
<p>This whole thread has made me nervous :/
I'm applying ED to Tisch for Acting. I have a 3.55 UW/ 3.7 W GPA and a 1360/2040 on the SAT. Should I be fine academically or are they looking for higher stats?
thanks!</p>
<p>monologue, </p>
<p>Tisch doesn't admit purely by the numbers with "cut offs" with GPA and SAT scores. There is much more to the academic admissions process including the rigor of your chosen HS curriculum, your class rank or percentile, your actual grades in the courses, your essays, your extracurricular endeavors, your achievements, your recommendations, and so forth, plus the GPA and test scores. It is hard for me to evaluate your odds given how little you shared but based on what you shared, your SAT score and GPA are definitely in the ballpark for NYU. That doesn't mean you'll get in but you are an appropriate candidate in terms of your stats that you shared.</p>
<p>I agree with soozievt,
NYU specifically states that they don’t have an academic “cut off”. After speaking to admissions people and profs at NYU, they said that the University looks at grades, but also your UNIQUE qualities as a person, and how you have worked/effected your community. A major part of NYU is the city itself, and NYU (and TISCH) wants to see that you can survive in the cut throat environment. So, if your grades aren’t stellar, start doing community service or leadership in your school or your community. Establish good relationships with teachers, because your reccommondations count A LOT (so they told me), and if you don’t have great math or standardized test scores and are still applying to Tisch, make sure that something COMPENSATES. For instance, high AP scores for subjects like English or other liberal arts subjects are good for Tisch, as it is an art school. Get invovled with local or professional theaters or studios, (depending on what you are applying for).</p>
<p>All in all, there is not way to know exactly what the admissions people are thinking, but there is no “CUT OFF”, on collegeboard, it says that 10% of students had a 3.0-3.2 which is considered “low” for NYU, but somehow people still get in. If you didn’t have great grades for any reason, but are still an intelligent, involved, ARTISTIC (for Tisch) person, then you probably have a good chance, it’s just more uncertain. </p>
<p>Focus on your audtions.</p>
<p>Susan, you know I usually agree with everything you say, but I have to say that I disagree with you on this one. Sometimes being too “realistic” can close the door to opportunities. After all, this career, more than many others, involves drive and luck along with brains and talent. I heard that there is a discussion about every single applicant between the admissions department and the artistic review. Also, I heard that they accept 500 students in various studios out of the 2000-2500 who apply. That seems like pretty good odds, especially since many who get accepted cannot work it out financially. I understand that every audition BFA is a long shot, and you absolutely must not count on an acceptance no matter how talented you are, but…I would never tell anyone not to apply if it is their dream school. What’s the worst that can happen? They lose a little money and get a rejection letter. But, what if they blow them away at their audition and get accepted even with lower than average stats? As long as there is no actual cut-off, I would encourage anyone who dreams to attend NYU to give it a shot. Of course, I am not a college counselor :). But, we all have to remember what the brilliant CMU professor Randy Pausch said, “Brick walls are there for a reason. They let us prove how badly we want things.” I’m not saying that all kids with low grades and test scores should apply to NYU, but I believe that sometimes passion, heart, drive, and talent can break down those walls. There’s nothing wrong with being a dreamer.</p>