<p>“Yes, I am angry we are in this position because it is not one we created.”</p>
<p>Kind of untrue - you guys did create it. The parental involvement in the applications (choices) would have avoided this whole thing.</p>
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<p>You do realize, though, that transfer students don’t tend to get good scholarships or financial aid, and that college GPAs, especially at challenging and selective places, tend to be lower than high school GPAs, so your D’s choices as a transfer may be worse than what she’s got right now?</p>
<p>I also don’t see how forcing your D to attend an institution she doesn’t want is going to make her into a better person. It sounds like you’re trying to rationalize it as a decision that’s in her best interest, not yours. You yourself pointed out that many 18-year-olds don’t know what they want. Don’t blame her for that; it’s normal. At this point it doesn’t matter whether she goes to Wellesley or somewhere else. Please don’t make her go to the Air Force Academy if she does not want to. Let her take a gap year and be more involved in her application choices. Take responsibility and don’t let her apply to places you won’t pay for. </p>
<p>It also sounds as if you and your H may have a disagreement about how to handle/spend money. Again, this is not your D’s fault and don’t blame her if you and spouse are not on the same page on finances. This is not her doing.</p>
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<p>But not to the point of not wanting to go at all.</p>
<p>@laBechtel, I grew up at the Navel Academy. I knew many cases of cadets leaving the academy after two years. They are not considered quitters. It’s an honest and personal decision. There are many things I love about the service academies and there are some things I didn’t care for. You certainly cant beat the value of the education and I agree with you, it would have been nice to see your D give the academy a try first. Even having just two years of this kind of schooling on her transcript is impressive but I think you D thinks that some people may view her as a person who could not handle it.
She’s made her decision so the only thing you can do now is support her. I’m sure it will be tempting to say, “I told you so”, when she complains about her student loans. She sounds like a very bright young women who will be successful no matter where she is educated. Best of luck to her.</p>
<p>You know the concept of sunk cost? Where, if you’ve already spent $X on something, discount it when you’re deciding what to do?</p>
<p>To some extent, think of the AFA-now-gone as a sunk cost. You seem to have a hard time taking it out of your decision-making, but it’s the equivalent of a sunk cost. It’s irrelevant to whether Wellesley is worth $X more than Indiana.</p>
<p>“You know the concept of sunk cost? Where, if you’ve already spent $X on something, discount it when you’re deciding what to do?”</p>
<p>This is a wonderful concept to apply when making a decision. It’s a concept from cost accounting. I totally agree with Pizzagirl . . .the time investment in AFA is a sunk cost, and it doesn’t pay to consider it further. So, you have Wellesley vs. Indiana vs. Gap year/new options. It may be a good idea to try to get on the same page as your husband before confronting this issue with your daughter. If he is adamant that he’s going to pay for whatever her first choice is, over your objections, then there’s no point in you becoming the “bad guy” in your daughter’s eyes by insisting you are against it. On the other hand, you will probably need to try to figure out how to forgive your husband for not taking your wishes into consideration. If you both determine that Wellesley is un-affordable, then the choice can be left in your daughter’s hands - - Indiana vs. gap year.</p>
<p>“Having said that, all kids become anxious prior to attending any school.”</p>
<p>Um, I’m not sure this is true. I was totally NOT anxious prior to attending Wellesley. I couldn’t wait actually. And my S is not showing even a hint of anxiety about his choice. Eagerness would more be the word I would use. So actual anxiety - - that could be a red flag. ESPECIALLY for a young woman who you describe as fiercely independent. Sometimes in the competitive process of trying to get what we want, we ignore the signs that perhaps we don’t really want it after all! Sometime the wanting is just plain better than the having . . .</p>
<p>You did not go from “free to 240K education”. You went from your D making a 9 year commitment to the Air Force, with zero out of pocket, to now, having to do a cost/benefit analysis of what you can afford. Nobody is forcing you to pay 240K for W. But asking your D to take on a 9 year commitment to the military is hardly “free”. Why do you not see that? Free is getting a scoop of Ben and Jerry’s at the grocery store to apologize for a long line at checkout (happened to me last week.) They’ve taken 20 extra minutes of your day and in return, gave you a free ice cream cone. That’s free. Free is not “agree to get posted to Afghanistan and maybe get shot out of an airplane plus no cellphones your Freshman year and limited vacation time and we own you for almost a decade.” That is not free.</p>
<p>But moving on. Has your D’s guidance counselor contacted the other two wait listed schools? Has your D given thought to where she’d want to apply if W is off the table due to finances? Did your financial aid appeal focus on new information (supporting elderly parents, change in your financial obligations) or just ask for more money based on the data they’ve already seen?</p>
<p>We can be helpful to you once you stop banging the “oh no we can’t afford W drum”. We get it- H wants to pay for it, you don’t. Help us help you find a compromise here.</p>
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<p>If you were willing to have her explore the big world outside Indiana at the USAFA, why not be willing to have her explore the big world outside Indiana at Wellesley? They are kind of known for some big-wig names in politics, last time I heard :-)</p>
<p>Seriously – my Wellesley D who isn’t even interested in politics was all agog when she got to see Clinton and Albright there, and she calls them her “Wellesley sisters.” The whole concept of women in leadership roles in the world is a VERY Wellesley concept.</p>
<p>What did you want to spend the $240,000 on instead? Getting on the same page as the rest of your family about that is probably a better use of your time than seeking validation here.</p>
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<p>What her friends and their parents are doing is completely irrelevant to anything. Take it out of the equation. It matters not one whit to your decision-making whether her friends are going to community college or Harvard, or whether their parents can afford $500 or $50,000 a year. It’s important in your decision-making to pull it down to what’s relevant to you. Much like the AFA opp isn’t relevant any more, neither are the finances of her friends.</p>
<p>What if the AFA had never been on the table – would you or would you not spend the money for her to go to an elite school over your state flagship?</p>
<p>I’m in the camp of…if you really don’t want to pay for a college…don’t allow your kid to APPLY there at all. Period. Or set your financial limits clearly BEFORE applications are sent. Neither appears to have happened in the OP’s case. </p>
<p>Now that the AFA is off the table, you need to ONLY consider the remaining options.</p>
<p>We know more than a handful of Wellesley grads…and all are in terrific jobs. I agree with PG that women in leadership is strongly emphasized there. And their alumni network is amazing.</p>
<p>That being said…if you can’t pay the bills (you and your husband have to come to some agreement on this…any large loans will need to be cosigned by you…or will be Plus loans which ARE yours), then you need to be frank and honest with your daughter about this.</p>
<p>Taking a gap year wouldn’t be the end of the world if you really can’t pay for Wellesley. With the stats to get into the AFA and Wellesley, she would likely be able to garner some significant merit aid at other schools to soften the financial blow…if that is really what you have to do.</p>
<p>But if you can afford Wellesley…it is an incredible school! Her connections will be worldwide, not just Indiana,</p>
<p>NOW…one rub…if she does want to go to law school, she will likely be facing an additional $250,000 or more in loans for law school. If her total is in the $500,000 range, her payback will be over $5000 a MONTH. Sorry…but I think that is a huge sum of loans. Have you discussed THIS aspect with your daughter?</p>
<p>I vote to shut your mouth and pay for Wellesley. It’s an excellent school. </p>
<p>I think you need to let your D live her life.</p>
<p>The OPs daughter applied to 13 colleges. Who paid the application fees and fees to send the CSS Profile? Who filled out the FAFSA and the Profile? The names of the colleges are on all of these forms.</p>
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<p>True, but the vast majority of former SA cadets I’ve known and heard about who transferred out like that ended up with exceedingly low GPAs in the low 2.x or even 1.x ranges because of above-average academic credit loads SA mandate each semester along with the 24/7 military environment and all it entails…such as intensive physical conditioning/military drills. Most ended up going to much lower tiered colleges…sometimes even community college and ended up transferring again once their low GPAs were replaced with better grades from the latter colleges. </p>
<p>Did I mention the fact EVERY cadet is mandated to take a minimum number of engineering classes including those majoring in humanities/social science fields like Foreign Affairs? Unless things changed drastically since the late '90s, that’s what SA alums/attendees faced when they attended in the '80s and '90s. </p>
<p>The older cousin who managed to transfer out of a SA to an HYPSMCC college is an exceedingly rare anomaly even by his own admission. He along with the SA alums I’ve met would all say the odds of having the same levels of schools as transfer opportunities…even schools which would have given merit money from HS is extremely likely to be gone after a year or two at an SA.</p>
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<p>Indeed. Vast majority of HS seniors at my HS…including those going off to the SAs were eagerly looking forward to starting college. </p>
<p>Major part of that was a desire for greater independence from parents and looking forward to expanding their horizons outside of our home area. Not surprising considering most of us did our utmost to go away for college.</p>
<p>Thank goodness one poster had cousins involved. </p>
<p>We know people who transferred out of service academies who had fine GPAs but realized that the commitment to the armed forces after graduation was not what they wanted to do…or in one case…their service academy didn’t offer their eventual desired major.</p>
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<p>I’ve known a few such folks myself…but from what I’ve seen and heard from every SA attendee/graduate I’ve met, the vast majority who leave voluntarily tend not to have fine GPAs because of the need to balance an above-average academic load with the stresses/time demands of being in a 24/7 military environment. </p>
<p>In short, I was trying to make the point that the SAs are so tough for most that one shouldn’t assume one can spend two years and maintain a high enough GPA to transfer out to one’s choice of colleges. It doesn’t work that way for most.</p>
<p>It’s a mantra not too far removed from what I kept hearing from advanced law students and lawyers about never assuming one will be the top 10% of one’s law school class. You have a 90% chance of being wrong as class ranking is curved for everyone and only 10% can be top 10%.</p>
<p>OP, will the cost of Wellesley derail future uses for that $240,000? Do you have other children whose future college costs need to be considered? Is D going to expect you to pony up for law school, too? </p>
<p>I am in the camp of encouraging her to take a gap year. But it sounds like she’s determined to go to Wellesley, and that the decision has been made?</p>
<p>I read this thread mostly out of curiosity, because I have one child on scholarship at a SMC who is deciding to stay after some post-freshman soul-searching. The environment at a SMC bears some similarity to that at a FSA, although arguably less intense. It’s easy to idealize how things are going to be there. We had backup plans in case he decided to leave; it would have been costly but affordable if he decided to leave, and possibly also cost some time. I would say that the notion of attending USAFA on a one-year trial is completely impractical. One has to be “all in” to succeed and to stay.</p>
<p>At this point, I don’t think OP has much choice but to go along with D and H, since the process has gone this far. Any financial constraints should have been agreed with H and conveyed to D months ago. Honors college at the in-state public school would be a great option. Is there more than one child in the family? If so, that would be a reason for evaluating the financial constraints again. But it sounds to me like the first step would be getting H on board.</p>
<p>Good luck. I do think Wellesley is a great college, but OP, you could think of it as a luxury and not ask whether it’s “worth it”. Is a Mercedes vs. Chevy “worth it”? Depends on your perspective. You live well within your means, so it seems unlikely you would pick the Mercedes, but this is for your daughter.</p>
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<p>Agree on YMMV. Some families may prefer to spend millions on fancy vacation homes, cars, brand name clothing and the like while going cheap/refusing to pay at all for their child’s college, even if he/she had straight As and near-perfect SAT scores as happened with one friend with such parents at another college during my undergrad years. </p>
<p>On the flipside, other families…including many within my own extended family would be happy to subsist on rice and beans, wear old clothes, drive beaters, and more and yet, go all out to send children demonstrating high academic achievement/potential to a college like W, USAFA if it charged tuition, and the like if they were admitted.</p>
<p>I think the OP has lots of choices. First of all, there needs to be a conversation with the guidance counselor (I know school is out already) to see what communication has transpired with the other wait list schools- in case one of them is a more affordable option, and in case the D could clear that wait list. Second, there needs to be a “come to Jesus” conversation with the D- why W now? If the mom doesn’t think they can afford W, the D needs to figure out what her back up plan is going to be. And even when a kid applied to 12 colleges- that means there are probably hundreds of great choices, some of which would happily pay merit to get a kid of this caliber.</p>
<p>But I suspect we only know half the story. I don’t know how a kid comes up with enough money to apply to so many schools without the parents knowing and participating. I don’t know any GC who would sign off on such a high risk strategy- three service academies, 11 reach schools, and one safety (Indiana) that the kid has no interest in. And I don’t know how a kid manages to fill out the financial aid forms by herself without getting a parent to observe, “unless this school can make sure that our out of pocket is only 10K or 15K or 18K per year (whatever the number is) we can’t afford to send you there.”</p>
<p>so i think there are some facts not in evidence…</p>