<p>I do think Duke is a level above. My advice skateboarder is to perhaps apply to a broader range of schools if you want to transfer - i.e. add in Brown, Dartmouth, Amherst, Northwestern etc. Anyway its a year off, have fun at Tufts!</p>
<p>maybe. I wouldn’t put northwestern above, its one of those schools that gets a boost in terms of reputation because of its sports affiliations.
but yeah, tufts is sort of mediocre.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>where did you get this stat? if its from the nyt article, again, that is outdated. </p>
<p>tufts is not a mediocre school! you may end up being happy there… give it a chance 
if you don’t, there is always duke maybe again. i was wondering that if you truly wanted to go duke, maybe its not too late to ask to switch? it could never hurt, right? i don’t know if its possible as i have never heard of it before last late in the game, but i do know a few people personally who have changed their SIR even after May 1</p>
<p>There are alot of
- Columbia V U of Chicago
- Northwestern V U of Chicago- which I don’t get, besides being in Illinois they are NOTHING alike U of Chi wins 10char
- U of Chicago V WASHU
- Northwestern V. Wash U/Rice
- U of Chicago V LAC’s
- Kenyon V Oberlin
- Reed V Brown
- Virgina Tech V Georgia Tech
- Penn State V UVA/UNC</p>
<p>MIT vs Caltech vs Olin vs Harvey Mudd</p>
<p>Stanford vs MIT vs Harvard vs Princeton vs Yale</p>
<p>Stanford vs Berkeley vs Claremont Colleges</p>
<p>Berkeley vs Cornell vs CMU</p>
<p>Berkeley vs UCLA vs USC</p>
<p>"According to the numbers reported by Duke admissions in this article, </p>
<p>HYPSM vs Duke: HYPSM wins 85% of the time.
Duke vs Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, Penn: Duke wins 60-40% of the time. Almost split.
Duke vs Cornell: Duke wins 85-90% of the time."</p>
<p>This has been commented on another current CC thread. To wit:</p>
<p>"
Quote:
Vs the other Ivies, the preferences are not nearly so lopsided. According to the article, Duke wins about 60-40 over Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, and U Penn. Duke wins decisively by 85-15 over Cornell. </p>
<p>Even Guttentag, the Duke Dean of Undergraduate Admissions didn’t claim that. Rather he said that in the past two years (which was in 2004 and 2005 since the article was published in 2006) between 40 and 60% of students chosen by Duke and Ivies other than HYP and Cornell select Duke. That is far different from the statement you made. </p>
<p>In addition, as to your statement that Duke wins by 85-15% over Cornell, once again, even Guttentag only said that
Quote:
Duke enrolls between 75 and 90 percent of cross-admitted students from the third group of top competitors, which includes Cornell, Northwestern and Georgetown. </p>
<p>Once again, your statement is inaccurate. Moreover, as I and others have pointed out, Guttentag’s figure is highly speculative, because Guttentag doesn’t have sufficient information to make such a statement. In the only “objective” survey of cross-admits, an old survey done based on 2000 data, Cornell won the cross-admit battle by 54/46% against Duke. I would think it highly, highly unlikely that in a short 4 years, the Duke/Cornell cross-admit data had changed so decisively in Duke’s favor. "</p>
<p>"According to the Revealed Preference Study, Cornell wins the cross-admit competition with Duke.</p>
<p><a href=“http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf[/url]”>http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf</a> "</p>
<p>Cornell wins the competition with Duke for cross-admitted students by a substantial margin according to the Revealed Preference study.</p>
<p><a href=“http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf[/url]”>http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf</a></p>
<p>I think the UCLA/Berkeley choice varies depending on which part of the state you are from. SoCal kids prefer UCLA, and NoCal prefers CAL. </p>
<p>Interestingly, at least at my D’s school (in SoCal) it was harder to get into UCLA this year than CAL, and the kids preferred to go to UCLA over Cal. (I didn’t agree with this choice, but I went to Cal. Then again, I’m from No. Cal.)</p>
<p>If it was Stanfurd/CAL, I think Stanfurd wins, but this is also a money question.</p>
<p>If it is a Stanfurd/Ivies question, for California kids, Stanfurd wins because kids are a little nervous about going back East. That’s what I saw this year at my D’s school.</p>
<p>@ monydad, collegehelp</p>
<p>Are you really making an argument with information that is over 5 years old? Seriously, information from 2004 is supposed to outweigh information that is from 2007? Maybe in the bizarro world that you live in it does, but sorry, 2007 is more recent then 2004.</p>
<p>And, ok, lets say for the sake of argument that your article is not outdated and is as current as the Guttentag/Chronicle article, just for arguments sake. Do you really think that an article done by a couple professors, people who are doing this as a simple intellectual experiment, are more qualified to give information then a man whose JOB is to know this information? He is getting paid to know the stats and gets it from students that were accepted to his school. I applied and got into Duke and had to send a card stating the schools that I got into and the schools that I would have/would not have chosen over Duke. Guess which school was 3 spots lower on my list?</p>
<p>And if you are going to bring up the NYT study, you are wasting your time because, again, it is outdated!!!</p>
<p>Plus, this year especially, Duke received a huge jump in applications (17%), while Cornell stayed almost the same (only 3% increase). I would not be surprised if Duke won even more this year.</p>
<p>I would definitely be inclined to agree with Duke Admissions. Just because Cornell is an Ivy (even though it is without a doubt the lowest in the league for academics) does not mean that it is more attractive then Duke. Had I been admitted to Cornell’s best major (AEM) I still would not have gone over Duke. Blue Devils have to win that match up at least 2:1, if not higher.</p>
<p>Speaking of Duke, which professional program can we honestly consider Duke to be in the top 5?</p>
<p>^^^^Start a new thread on this RML.</p>
<p>Med school and thats probably it. Duke is known more for its undergrad I think then its grad school programs. I view it like Dartmouth in terms of its undergraduate focus.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is impossible for the Dean of Admissions to have this information nor his office dares to confirm it now. There are no statistics available of how many students return the cards indicating which school they are attending instead of Duke (which is what would provide the Dean with this data) </p>
<p>The best estimate in cross admits come from the Revealed Preference Ranking Study and your own anecdotal experiences. Duke loses in cross admits to all Ivies, MIT and Stanford. If you are coming from the South, that gives Duke a slighter edge as well, which emphasizes its regional character.</p>
<p>I have personally called Duke to confirm the data on cross admits and they WILL NOT DO IT. The most they will tell you is that they are 'comparable to its peer schools" but these days they will not say on the record that they win on cross admits over Brown, Dartmouth or Penn. I also know of a newspaper reporter trying to write an article on the subject and they told him they “do not have that information”.</p>
<p><a href=“collegehelp:”>quote</a></p>
<p>Cornell wins the competition with Duke for cross-admitted students by a substantial margin according to the Revealed Preference study.</p>
<p><a href=“http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf[/url]”>http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/papers/1287.pdf</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>All three highlighted statements are completely wrong. </p>
<p>-The Revealed Preferences papers contain several different ranking models. The main ranking, which is the only one for which any numerical parameters or quantitative predictions are reported, is by its nature unable to predict cross-admit tournaments between particular pairs of schools.</p>
<p>-Some of their models rank Duke above Cornell, others place Cornell one spot above Duke, and none of the models assign high statistical confidence to Cornell outranking Duke. The MCMC simulations had Duke ranking higher 20 percent (old paper) or 34 percent (revised paper) of the time. </p>
<p>-If you incorrectly construe the “probabilities of winning” in the paper as referring to cross-admit probabilities, Cornell is predicted to beat Duke between 53 and 53.8 percent of the time. That is an overestimate (of Cornell) when applied to the true cross-admit battles, because Duke will have a stronger effect of the covariates for financial aid and legacy status. So if one tries to get true cross-admit predictions by adjusting the pseudo-cross-admit numbers in the Revealed Preferences paper, Duke probably equals or beats Cornell, although RP ranks it slightly lower in “latent desirability”.</p>
<p>When I was visiting princeton for preview days the only schools kids seemed to be choosing between were harvard and yale. there were also some stanford. i personally was choosing between columbia and princeton and i had a friend who was choosing between ptown and oxford. there was no duke</p>
<p>There were also some ptown/wharton kids</p>
<p>^^Given Duke’s low matriculation/yield rate (i think it is like 40%), I don’t see how it can beat those other schools for students.</p>
<p>First off, siserune that was an amazing analysis (not just because you chose my side but because it really was well put together).</p>
<p>Second off, MyOpinion I cannot believe that you actually called the admissions office. Are you for real?</p>
<p>Third off, College Yahoo the yield rate means nothing in this particular argument. Statistically the students accepted at Duke are of higher quality then that of Cornell judging by SAT scores (only standardized testing, but it is the only true comparison you can have that is released). Duke (CR 660 - 760, M 680 - 780, W 660 - 760, ACT 29 - 34) Cornell (CR 630 - 730, M 670 - 770, W not released, ACT 29 - 33). Therefore there is a greater chance that someone from Duke would be accepted by Harvard or Yale or another Ivy/equivalent school and therefore would be forced to chose. Examples- kid I met had to chose between Harvard and Duke, ultimately chose Harvard. Didn’t even apply to Cornell. Another kid I know (in my class) only got into Cornell and was rejected everywhere else so decided on Cornell. Another kid I know (in my town) only got into Cornell and Georgetown and got rejected by Duke and the rest of the Ivies. Another kid I know (friend at another school) applied ED to Cornell. Another kid I know (local school) also got rejected from every Ivy and equivalent except Cornell so is taking their offer. Yield will be higher therefore at Cornell.
Also, the yield rate will be lower for Duke due to the fact that it accepts a lower percentage of its class early decision. Duke accepted 547 kids out of the 1700 they wanted for the incoming class for an Early Percentage of 32%. Cornell on the other hand accepted 1249 kids out of the 3150 they wanted for the incoming class for an Early Percentage of 39.6%. Therefore, with more kids already committed, they needed less students to commit to make their yield higher. </p>
<p>I still feel that students would chose Duke over Cornell a vast majority of the time. I know that I would, as would the overwhelming majority of my intellectual and nonintellectual friends and those I met at the Duke Blue Devil Days. Cornell was almost a joke at that point when I talked to kids. Trust me, Duke would win more often then Cornell.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, I am for real. Your point is…?</p>
<p>andy_college09 said: </p>
<p>“I still feel that students would chose Duke over Cornell a vast majority of the time. I know that I would, as would the overwhelming majority of my intellectual and nonintellectual friends and those I met at the Duke Blue Devil Days. Cornell was almost a joke at that point when I talked to kids. Trust me, Duke would win more often then Cornell.”</p>
<p>Another example of why Duke gets a bad rap on CC. I just don’t see other schools that trash peers as much as too many of the posters who attend(ed) Duke. Some of you gals/guys really need to get over yourselves. Duke isn’t all that!</p>