<p>Harvard has over 250,000 living alumni, is a Harvard degree watered down too?</p>
<p>Tentai, Harvard has a high average GPA because the people there are very smart. The average at Harvard is about a 3.5, at Michigan is about a 3.0-3.1, but the average person at Michigan is much dumber than the average person at Harvard. It’s not as if getting a 2.5 at Michigan is the same as getting a 3.5 at Harvard or anything like that at all. A 2.5 at Michigan is probably not even equivocal to a 3.5 at MSU. If you’re looking at getting a 2.5 at Michigan you’re not at a comparable level to any GPA at Harvard.</p>
<p>bearcats, that guy who interviewed is a moron and will not get far professionally. I have never met a person at a senior level who thinks that way. I should know, I am in a similar position, as are hundreds of colleagues I have interacted with over the last 10 years in exclusive IB, VC/PE and Consulting circles.</p>
<p>As for weaknesses…Michigan gets consistently knocked by USnews for Faculty to student ratios and and Faculty resources. If it wasn’t for these two categories, it would probably make the top 20. Before I came I didn’t think this was that important, but now that I’m here as a grad student I really believe there is something to it. Also, I acknowledge that these categories are fuzzy and open to interpretation and manipulation by many universities. </p>
<p>With all this being said, my first couple weeks here I dropped a grad course (500 level) in a top engineering program…basically decided against taking it. The drops don’t count on the transcript for the first few weeks. There were 50 plus students in the class. The classroom was not big enough so student were sitting in the aisles. Even with like 55 Students signed up, the school refused to assign a GSI. This meant less help for the students, and when the professor travelled, he just cancelled class. The class would just not meet for a week here or there.</p>
<p>My understanding is that GSIs count toward the Faculty/student ratio in USnews. I have no problem with this. Many of the PhD students who are GSIs are quite good. The thing is that if a class needs a GSI, the school should assign one. GSIs are great for grad students. They are a job and a source of funding for ones education. Stuff I care deeply about. So I guess I’d say that it is sometimes questionable if the resources are there for the students that are enrolled.</p>
<p>Maybe, this was just one isolated experience. I’m open to be corrected or hear other’s ideas.</p>
<p>Qwertykey, it depends on the major. A 2.5 GPA in Electrical Engineering at Michigan would probably be roughly equivalent to a 3.5 GPA in Psycology at Harvard. And students of equal ability at those two schools would have similar GPAs in similar majors. Only 10% of LSA students at Michigan have better than 3.7 GPAs, compared to 40% of students at Harvard and in terms of student quality, I would say it is safe to say that the 90th percentile of students at Michigan are roughly the same quality as the 50th percentile of students at Harvard.</p>
<p>“My understanding is that GSIs count toward the Faculty/student ratio in USnews.”</p>
<p>I am sure many private universities do this to get ahead in the USNWR rankings. I am sure they also include non-instructional faculty. Michigan, on the other hand, will only count professors who actually teach in their faculty ratio stats.</p>
<p>“bearcats, that guy who interviewed is a moron and will not get far professionally”</p>
<p>I understand that.
But for 100 people who have a clue, you are bound to find like 20 who will ding you just because they think their HYPS pedigree is so much better than you. </p>
<p>Guess where my resume goes after landing in front of the 20 people who think “you are a state school kid and thus you suck”… right in the trash.</p>
<p>“Qwertykey, it depends on the major. A 2.5 GPA in Electrical Engineering at Michigan would probably be roughly equivalent to a 3.5 GPA in Psycology at Harvard. And students of equal ability at those two schools would have similar GPAs in similar majors. Only 10% of LSA students at Michigan have better than 3.7 GPAs, compared to 40% of students at Harvard and in terms of student quality, I would say it is safe to say that the 90th percentile of students at Michigan are roughly the same quality as the 50th percentile of students at Harvard.”</p>
<p>I was assuming whatever major stayed the same between the two. For instance Psychology at Michigan vs. Harvard, or Electrical Engineering (if they teach that at Harvard) at Michigan vs. Harvard. Though I’m surprised to hear someone tell me it’s as easy to get a 3.5 in Psych at Harvard as it is to get a 2.5 in EE from Michigan. How does the 2.5 in EE at Michigan compare to Psych at Michigan?</p>
<p>Sighs, I feel like I need to clarify myself because certain people here have twisted my words:</p>
<p>First, as I and others pointed out, the person that interviewed bearcats was a rude and complete moron. U-M is a very well-respected university among business, academia, nonprofits, and industry. The interviewer was unprofessional and biased toward certain universities. Bearcats should not take this experience as typical of most hiring managers. Most well-educated people know that U-M provides an excellent education.</p>
<p>Second, I mentioned the alums because there are many proud U-M alums (over 400,000) around the world doing excellent things in various careers. U-M alums are everywhere making a difference. Most people know that U-M is an elite institution with a great national and international reputation. I was not implying that U-M is a “watered down” degree.</p>
<p>bearcats, screw those people who think public universities are inferior! If they are so blinded by prestige and brand, then they are narrow-minded and superficial. It’s also a sign that you wouldn’t want to work there in the first place.</p>
<p>“Though I’m surprised to hear someone tell me it’s as easy to get a 3.5 in Psych at Harvard as it is to get a 2.5 in EE from Michigan. How does the 2.5 in EE at Michigan compare to Psych at Michigan?”</p>
<p>It is not easy to get a 2.5 GPA in EE at Michigan. I would say it is equally hard to maintain a 2.5 EE GPA at Michigan as it would be to maintain a 3.5 GPA in Psychology at Michigan. And like I said, a 3.5 GPA in Psychology at Michigan would roughly be equal to a 3.5 GPA in Psychology at Harvard. The difference is that at Harvard, the majority of students (well over 60%) of Psychology probably have GPAs over 3.5 where as at Michigan, only 30% or so of psychology majors would have GPAs over 3.5.</p>
<p>“But for 100 people who have a clue, you are bound to find like 20 who will ding you just because they think their HYPS pedigree is so much better than you.”</p>
<p>I agree that many who occupy top level jobs in major IB/MC firms are alums of HYPSM and Wharton, but like I said, if they managed to climb the corporate ladder, chances are, they are wise enough to know that top schoolsextend beyond those 5. Don’t get me wrong, there are many jerks who think as that guy who interviewed you, but at the senior levels, I would estimate they make up less than 10% of the group.</p>
<p>Michigan’s Dept. of Psychology is ranked higher than Harvard’s. :-)</p>
<p>
Alexandre, you are completely clueless regarding this matter. Harvard’s student body is exponentially better than Michigan’s student body. You could probably count on your hands the number of kids at Michigan in any given class that would have been admitted to Harvard. I would venture to say that even the 10th percentile of Harvard’s student body would be superior academically to the 90th percentile of Michigan’s student body.</p>
<p>Harvard has severe grade inflation because its students would probably kill themselves if they were being graded on a strict curve given their interests in T14 law schools, the top IB/MC/HF firms and the best med schools. Nearly every student at Harvard is deserving of a top job or admission to a top grad school so the Harvard administration has to ensure that it isn’t actively damaging its students’ postgraduate plans by forcing them to compete amongst each other in what would constitute the most unfair academic competition possible.</p>
<p>Should Harvard really give a kid who’s an International Math Olympiad silver medalist a B in a small math class where the few kids who would earn an A with a strict grading curve would be the International Math Olympiad gold medalists? That would be utterly unfair. In reality, every kid in the class is probably exerting an incredible amount of effort and is deserving of the A.</p>
<p>Most Harvard engineering students could get a 3.9+ in Michigan’s engineering curriculum without breaking a sweat. That’s just reality.</p>
<p>funny how we lost ring<em>of</em>fire, and now we have this guy who is equally obsessed with Michigan and play up duke everywhere else to the level of HYPS…LOL… such coincidence…</p>
<p>if only what u said were even half true, there wouldn’t be as many harvard grads working in starbucks. the reality is that you have zero clue what engineering is, see i really have no problem with people trashing LSA because like 70% of the people are in soft majors. My freshman year roommate swore that since he got into MIT, he “COULD” get a 4.0 at Michigan engineering without breaking a sweat. His final gpa was 3.2 and he did break quite a sweat, you are the clueless one young grasshoppa.</p>
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<p>How many % of Harvard grads and U-M grads end up working in starbucks?</p>
<p>"Most Harvard engineering students could get a 3.9+ in Michigan’s engineering curriculum without breaking a sweat. That’s just reality. "</p>
<p>Agree with everything except this statement. I don’t believe it. I’ve got a couple of engineering friends who got accepted to schools like Chicago, Hopkins BME and the likes, and they’re not sure they can pull off >3.7. Yeah, no, not without breaking a sweat.</p>
<p>
Wow those are surprising numbers, I would assume at least 25-30% of LSA students at University of Michigan have a 3.7 GPA or better.</p>
<p>Let’s go off test scores… The mid 50 percent ACT of Engineering students at UMich is 29-33, at Harvard is 31-34. The 50th percentile at Michigan is about equivocal to the 25th percentile at Harvard, 90th percentile at Michigan is equivocal to about 75th percentile at Harvard. Yes I’ll agree that other stats probably make Harvard students of a higher caliber than that shows, but certainly not to the degree where 90th percentile at Michigan is 10th percentile at Harvard.</p>
<p>Coolbreeze, out of curiosity, why would you have assumed that?</p>
<p>"Only 10% of LSA students at Michigan have better than 3.7 GPAs, compared to 40% of students at Harvard
Wow those are surprising numbers, I would assume at least 25-30% of LSA students at University of Michigan have a 3.7 GPA or better. "</p>
<p>From what I read the average LSA gpa is like a 3.2, which doesn’t really surprise me, I’d be more interested in a GPA by class level. The early classes are all pretty easy, but some of the later classes, I think, are very time intensive and ask a lot of a person in a short period of time and those can be really challenging-- not necessarily the material covered, but the speed at which so much is covered and how quickly one is expected to produce high level work.</p>
<p>I’m interested to see if any of my classes in the winter are graded on a curve. I had expected, from what I have heard here, that most of the LSA classes are graded on a curve. I know all three of my 300 level poli sci classes are not, I can’t remember about my geosci class.</p>