<p>^^ see saying something like that just undermines your point</p>
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what does that have to do with anything, as if hearing it from a firsthand source makes it not anecdotal? oh wait.. that actually is exactly what MAKES it anecdotal...
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</p>
<p>Oh so a completely unsupported assertion is better? I've spoken to the students from the East Coast. Stanford is on the same level as Harvard and Yale for them. And for the community they live in. Yeah, I'm gonna trust that popular opinion didn't somehow elude each and every one of them and stick with my previous statement.</p>
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[quote]
@Hrteeexz: You may have read some things in the news, and for all I know it may be changing since I visited for admit weekend half a month ago. That said, many college guide books mention the apathy there. I am thinking in particular of the College Pr0wler, which I quote here: "Most students identify as left/liberal or apathetic" (p. 65). The head of the College Democrats also shared this view when I spoke with him at the activities fair.</p>
<p>Contrast this with Yale, which makes Mother Jones', a leftist political magazine, list of the ten most activist campuses in the world (<a href="http://www.motherjones.com/news/outf...a_508_01.html)%5B/url%5D">http://www.motherjones.com/news/outf...a_508_01.html)</a>.</p>
<p>Stanford students are not very politically involved, by and large, although the opportunity exists for them to be, and some are.
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</p>
<p>I'm not even going to go back through the Stanford Daily's archives more than a week:</p>
<p>STAND organizes demonstration to protest Darfur genocide:
<a href="http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/30/standOrganizesDemonstrationToProtestDarfurGenocide%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/30/standOrganizesDemonstrationToProtestDarfurGenocide</a></p>
<p>GSC sends reps. to Washington:
<a href="http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/30/gscSendsRepsToWashington%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/30/gscSendsRepsToWashington</a></p>
<p>Sweat-Free stages “sew-in”:
<a href="http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/26/sweatfreeStagesSewin%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/26/sweatfreeStagesSewin</a></p>
<p>Pro-life groups tackle ‘media myths’:
<a href="http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/25/prolifeGroupsTackleMediaMyths%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/25/prolifeGroupsTackleMediaMyths</a></p>
<p>Celebration and protest of Israel:
<a href="http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/24/celebrationAndProtestOfIsrael%5B/url%5D">http://www.stanforddaily.com/article/2007/4/24/celebrationAndProtestOfIsrael</a></p>
<p>None of these articles are more than a week old. 7 days. I guess only recently have Stanford students broken out of their shell of political apathy.</p>
<p>There are certainly some students who are very involved, as I said above. But what is the level of participation? I maintain that Stanford students are such a diverse lot that they spread their interests pretty broadly. But many, perhaps the majority, perhaps not, are not very involved in the political scene. Many are probably too busy studying for their premed exams to join a protest ;-).</p>
<p>I'm not trying to knock Stanford--I think it's an amazing school. I just think that atmospherically speaking, students there are often more into sports, say, than their counterparts at Harvard or Yale, and less involved in political activism.</p>
<p>Of course there is a niche for activists at Stanford. But to what extent does the student body participate? I (and some college guidebooks) say a devoted few, you say many. Who is right? I think we would need to conduct a survey to find out :-)</p>
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Oh so a completely unsupported assertion is better? I've spoken to the students from the East Coast.
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</p>
<p>oh you've spoken to some students on the east coast? </p>
<p>how about a letter from stanford's dean acknowledging that stanford loses cross-admits with harvard, yale, mit, and princeton</p>
<p>cc won't let me post the link, it's a u t o a d m i t . c o m and then copy the end of that link</p>
<p>Bunker Hill Community College = Stanford.</p>
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[quote]
oh you've spoken to some students on the east coast?</p>
<p>how about a letter from stanford's dean acknowledging that stanford loses cross-admits with harvard, yale, mit, and princeton</p>
<p>cc won't let me post the link, it's a u t o a d m i t . c o m and then copy the end of that link
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<p>Of course Stanford loses cross-admits to HYPM. Where in that article did it claim that it lost the cross-admit battle with any of them? I'm not arguing that Stanford wins every cross-admit battle, but check your sources before you cite them.</p>
<p>Are you talking about this sentence?:
"We believe we can turn the trend around and yield positively against our four major competitors: Harvard, Yale, MIT, and Princeton."</p>
<p>How does that indicate anything? It's just the dean outlining steps to win more cross-admits from these schools.</p>
<p>How about the Yale Daily itself acknowledging its loss in the cross-admit battle with Stanford?:
<a href="http://www.yaleherald.com/archive/xxx/2000.11.16/features/front.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaleherald.com/archive/xxx/2000.11.16/features/front.html</a></p>
<p>'As the YAM reported, Yale has recently "begun to lose more Stanford common admits than it wins."'</p>
<p>Granted, it's from the year 2000, but it still proves my point that Stanford is considered on an even playing field with Harvard and Yale. And by Yale itself too.</p>
<p>well there's this sentence:
"I'll admit as well that for the past few cycles, several competitors have been exceedingly successful in increasing their yield against Stanford of students commonly admitted"</p>
<p>and then there's this one:
"Students rate Harvard higher on academic reputation."</p>
<p>If test scores, dean of students' testimony, and rankings do not convince you that stanford is on par with duke rather than hyp, then i don't know what to tell you.</p>
<p>refusal to acknowledge present facts is called denial. there is no argument able to be presented to remedy denial - that is the nature of the condition - so there is nothing left to say.</p>
<p>Or, alternately, refusal to accept your claims is called common sense.</p>
<p>1) Test scores indicate little, as others have pointed out.
2) Dean of students' testimony? Explain to me (and to others, I suspect) the validity of such support. I fail to see it...
3) Rankings are often flawed; in fact, it'd be safe to say that it is impossible to rank colleges (grouping is more efficient, as in tiers).</p>
<p>My point isn't that Duke and Stanford aren't on par, but I find your methods of support to be rather lacking.</p>
<p>this is going to be the last time i post on this thread, but what you just said is so ridiculous i can't resist</p>
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1) Test scores indicate little, as others have pointed out.
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right, IQ tests of university students indicate little as to their intelligence or the caliber of a student body, that is such an extremist minority opinion that i won't even justify it further.</p>
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2) Dean of students' testimony? Explain to me (and to others, I suspect) the validity of such support. I fail to see it...
[/quote]
uh... you mean the relevancy of first-hand support (from the horse's mouth) in defense of what i was saying? again, i don't think i need to further address this criticism</p>
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[quote]
3) Rankings are often flawed; in fact, it'd be safe to say that it is impossible to rank colleges (grouping is more efficient, as in tiers).
[/quote]
right, rankings using quantifiable statistical data are flawed in favor of a bunch of stanford fanatics posting on message boards' opinions.</p>
<p>obviously your personal preference towards stanford is clouding your judgment, again, read my above post for the definintion of denial, i can't even bother to respond to these asinine assertions anymore.</p>
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right, IQ tests of university students indicate little as to their intelligence or the caliber of a student body, that is such an extremist minority opinion that i won't even justify it further.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The validity of the SAT as an IQ test is highly debatable.</p>
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right, IQ tests of university students indicate little as to their intelligence or the caliber of a student body, that is such an extremist minority opinion that i won't even justify it further.
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</p>
<p>No, it in fact does indicate very little about the potential of a student body and the aforementioned view is far from an "extremist minority opinion."</p>
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uh... you mean the relevancy of first-hand support (from the horse's mouth) in defense of what i was saying? again, i don't think i need to further address this criticism
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</p>
<p>Nothing you have quoted from the Dean of Admissions supports any assertion you have made thus far. Nothing at all. If you can't see it, that's your problem. But everyone else can.</p>
<p>In fact, the closest thing the Dean does in directly comparing Stanford to other schools is: "our four major competitors: Harvard, Yale, MIT, and Princeton." Straight from the horse's mouth: our four major competitors. Your own source just bit you in the butt, buddy.</p>
<p>I urge you, please continue ignoring the Yale article I posted. It's making your argument all the stronger.</p>
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obviously your personal preference towards stanford is clouding your judgment, again, read my above post for the definintion of denial, i can't even bother to respond to these asinine assertions anymore.
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</p>
<p>Let's see what level-headed outsiders think upon reading both your arguments and the arguments made of your detractors. Then we'll see who's really clouding their judgment.</p>
<p>Everyone, please be courteous. We can discuss this civilly.</p>
<p>The perception, even in the east coast:</p>
<p>Harvard,Oxford,Cambridge,Yale,Princeton,Stanford,MIT,Caltech. </p>
<p>Duke is a very good school, but not in the league of the above schools. Since it is a matter of perception, there is no way, any amount of statistics can justify the inclusion of Duke! </p>
<p>In fact, the idea of "peer schools", arises only when you are not in the above league.</p>
<p>Rintu- the idea of "peer schools" is not constrained to any "league" of schools. Harvard students think about what are their peer schools as much as State U students think about their peer schools. </p>
<p>and "since it is a matter of perception", why should we be blindly accepting your perception? Are all the statistics all flawed? Should US News just call you up next year and ask what the list "really" should be?</p>
<p>If you just look at who gets into Stanford, Stanford is, without a doubt, way harder to get in than Duke. It is common sense that Stanford is more selective. Although Duke admits have better average SAT scores, SAT score is just one component of admissions process. </p>
<p>As others have said S forms the top 5 along w/ HYPM. (different level w/ Duke). However, I think to some students who want to stay at East Coast, Stanford does not hold the same prestige as H or Y. While to others who are fascinated by California, it is a plus. </p>
<p>My personal opinion, but I think people whose 1st choice is S are inherently just from people w/ D as first choice. (nothing - or +)</p>
<p>However, I believe that Stanford and Duke are similiar in other ways.
1) Athletics very popular
2) Quality education (big picture - both top 10)
3) Among the top 10 colleges, S and D have the two largest campuses, incomparable in size to others.
4) S has been termed Harvard of the West and D, Harvard of the South. (Both offer unique location compared to other top 10 prestigious colleges, which are concentrated in New England or Mid-Atlantic)
5) Both are deemed to have balance of academics and social life and sterotypically, you imagine an average D or S students to be more outgoing than students at other colleges (ex. M, Y, UP)</p>
<p>But whether which college better prepares you for grad schools and careers is another story. Statistically S is better, but I guess this depends on your major Also, teaching-quality wise only (not whether the professors won prize or is known in that field), I don't know which school is better).</p>
<p>Duke, Yale, MIT, Princeton</p>
<p>Comparable academically: HYPM
Comparable socially / school "style": Duke</p>
<p>comparable academically- Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Caltech..</p>
<p>Academically - Stanford is with MIT and Harvard. </p>
<p>Socially - It is more similar to Duke - tons of smart kids who party and have school spirit.</p>
<p>The academic groupings are as follows, based on SATs, National Merit Scholars, law/biz/med feeder rates, Class rank of incoming students...:
- HYPSM
- Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, Duke
- Chicago, NU, Cornell, JHU...a few others</p>
<p>Thats roughly for the top 15</p>