<p>If Duke's student body is statistically almost identical, their grad school placement is similar and their job placement is equal (or better on the East Coast and worse on the West Coast), then how can you conclude that Stanford is so much stronger. Hey, I'm not knocking Stanford, but Duke is no slouch and certainly not 5 times weaker than Stanford (as the 250-50 comparison implies).</p>
<p>In terms of prestige, Duke is with Penn Columbia and Dartmouth...Stanford is with Harvard Yale and Princeton. Not bad company for either.</p>
<p>In regards to the RT...it took Silicon Valley a few decades to develop, so give Duke and the Research Triangle some time. I agree its not just Duke that plays a role in the areas development. However, alot of the VC in the area are Duke grads, and Duke grads are usually hired into the local companies at high rates. Same with UNC and NC state. In a few decades if theres a biotech revolution in the same way there was a silicon revolution, it'll probably become HYPSMD(uke)...but until then its in the second tier of the top 10 schools.</p>
<p>Duke basketball, lacrosse, golf, volleyball are all good - so thats like 90 atleast, however the football team is like a negative (several scholarships...no wins).</p>
<p>On the same note however, I don't think the median undergrad at Duke fairs any worse than the median undergrad at Stanford, atleast with most large companies...just like the gap between Harvard - Columbia and Yale - Dartmouth isn't that big either.</p>
<p>Nobody is saying Stanford is "much" stronger but it is slightly stronger, just like HYPM being slightly stronger than Duke.</p>
<p>As far as biotech goes, the #1 through #3 centers right now are SF Bay Area, Boston, and San Diego though.</p>
<p>When the Research Triangle was developed Duke was still a fallback school for rich Preppies. It has come a long way in 40 years.</p>
<p>On the issue of "peer schools," part of the argument might hinge on what is meant by this expression. If you look closely at the OVERALL undergraduate experience at Stanford and compare it to schools across the country, IMO its closest comp would be Duke and to a lesser degree, other truer comps would be Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and maybe Rice. For academics and prestige, Stanford is an equal to HYP, but in terms of the undergraduate experience, Duke (and perhaps the others) exhibit greater similarity. Consider the following:</p>
<p>UNDERGRAD ENROLLMENT
Stanford: 6576
Duke: 6534
Northwestern: 8023
Vanderbilt: 6402
Rice: 3185</p>
<p>Harvard: 6649
Yale: 5409
Princeton: 4906
Williams: 2017
Amherst: 1623</p>
<p>SOCIAL LIFE
Stanford: 26 fraternities/sororities
Duke: 35 fraternities/sororities
Northwestern: 42 fraternities/sororities
Vanderbilt: 31 fraternities/sororities
Rice: No fraternities/sororities</p>
<p>Harvard: No fraternities/sororities
Yale: No fraternities/sororities
Princeton: No fraternities/sororities (eating clubs)
Williams: No fraternities/sororities
Amherst: No fraternities/sororities</p>
<p>PROXIMITY TO A MAJOR CITY
Stanford: San Francisco Bay Area
Duke: Durham & Raleigh
Northwestern: Chicago
Vanderbilt: Nashville
Rice: Houston</p>
<p>Harvard: Boston
Yale: New Haven
Princeton: New York & Philadelphia
Williams: Boston
Amherst: Boston</p>
<p>ATHLETIC AFFILIATION & BIGGEST RIVAL
Stanford: PAC 10 & UC Berkeley
Duke: ACC & U North Carolina
Northwestern: Big Ten & U Illinois
Vanderbilt: SEC & U Tennessee
Rice: Conference USA</p>
<p>Harvard: IVY
Yale: IVY
Princeton: IVY
Williams: Division III-NESCAC
Amherst: Divisions III-NESCAC</p>
<p>WEATHER-AVG HI/LOW in FEBRUARY
Stanford: 62-43
Duke: 54-30
Northwestern: 35-18
Vanderbilt: 52-31
Rice: 67-48</p>
<p>Harvard: 39-24
Yale: 37-19
Princeton: 41-24
Williams: 32-10
Amherst: 36-13</p>
<p>SAT SCORES FOR 25/75
Stanford: 1360-1550
Duke: 1360-1540
Northwestern: 1320-1500
Vanderbilt: 1280-1460
Rice: 1330-1540</p>
<p>Harvard: 1400-1580
Yale: 1400-1580
Princeton: 1380-1560
Williams: 1340-1530
Amherst: 1350-1560</p>
<p>I don't believe that Northwestern, Vanderbilt and Rice are academic peers to Stanford (I believe that Duke is), but the overall experience that a student gets at Stanford (or Duke) is perhaps more well rounded and similar to these schools than what one would experience at any of the Ivies, MIT, Williams, Amherst, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
is perhaps more well rounded and similar to these schools than what one would experience at any of the Ivies, MIT, Williams, Amherst, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you arguing this based on the presence of fraternities? Weather shouldn't be a factor in whether you have a good social life - unless you're immobile b/c of it - and many of those ivies/MIT/etc. are near large cities.</p>
<p>elsijfdl dated 05 02 07 posted the SAT 25th-75th percentile based on 1600 for the various colleges. How do I convert it to the current 2400 SAT? Thanks.</p>
<p>Everybody has made excellent points about how certain universities are more alike than others. However, for the general public, peer schools does not involve delving into SAT scores or comparing number of books in the library. It is simply a reflection of what schools tend to be associated with each other and does not mean they are better than other schools.</p>
<p>The HYPSM schools have been famous for a longer period of time than other schools. Thats why they have the most international as well as common folk recognition. They hold their own against each other in the cross admit battle. Quotes from the dean of admission from Stanford and Princeton both mention the other HYPSM schools as being their main competitors.</p>
<p>In fact, the HYPSM schools are very different. Princeton has no professional schools. MIT is not strong in humanities. Yale is humanities focused. Harvard is weak in engineering. Stanford is way out in California. The main thing they have in common is their prestige and huge endowment.</p>
<p>brand182,
I'm suggesting that the nature of campus life at Stanford or Duke or any of the other schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice) is both different and broader than what you'd typically find at HYPWA. Key differences are size, type of socializing that goes on, influence of athletics and how this affects campus buzz, weather which IMO does affect the social activities of a school, and relationship/proximity to a major city for social, arts and professional opportunities. If you feel that the academic offerings of these schools are acceptable to a student as being in the same neighborhood with HYPWA, then these other areas may be critical in helping a student decide fit. </p>
<p>For example, if you are a college sports fan, I suspect that there is nothing at HYPWA even remotely close to attending a home football game at Stanford, a home basketball game at Duke, a home baseball game at Rice or Vanderbilt, any Big 10 game at Northwestern, etc. I'm not saying that these are better academic schools than HYPWA (although I would put both Stanford and Duke as equals), but they may offer a more complete undergraduate experience for a student who is looking for more than just academics and "wow" prestige in a name. IMO, Stanford and Duke offer the best blend of all of these factors.</p>
<p>hawkette,</p>
<p>% frats are a little off for Northwestern. 32% male and 42% females. So the overall % is more like 37%.</p>
<p>samlee,
The numbers above are for total number of fraternities and sororities on each campus, not for the % of students that are in them. Those numbers were not universally available while the number of Greek organizations were. </p>
<p>USNWR did publish a Top 100 list of schools with the highest % of men and women in fraternities and sororities. Northwestern made both lists, with 32% men and 38% women. So did Duke (27%/42%) and Vanderbilt (34%/50%), but not Stanford, Rice or any of HYPWA (Rice and HYPWA do not officially have fraternities/sororities). Does anyone know the percentages for Stanford?</p>
<p>Hawkette - That's understandable. Still, I think the "undergraduate experience" depends on who you're speaking to. Many of the students that opt to attend a more artsy school that is not located near a city (Yale, Wesleyan come to mind) do not define sports and proximity to a city as necessities or even positive aspects of the experience. It just seems like a generalization to assume that most students want that stuff and that, therefore, Stanford and Duke offer a better undergrad experience. In my case, I would not want to attend either of those schools but would be more interested in other schools that you compare them to because they offer what in my mind embodies the college experience.</p>
<p>brand_182,
As you imply, different strokes for different folks. I think you make an excellent point as you and I might value different things in our social lives and that does not mean that one of us is right and the other is wrong. Having said that, I think that Stanford and Duke have more similarities to each other in terms of the experience that they offer than Stanford does to HYPMWA. If you like that kind of overall experience, then Stanford & Duke (and perhaps Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice) might be a better comparison as peer schools and probably would be a better fit for that student.</p>
<p>joshua, define how Duke is "nowhere near" Stanford as a university? Are you talking about undergrad mainly? Because then thats laughable. In grad programs, I guess you might be right, but no grad students come to this website so moot point. </p>
<p>I'd say Duke is very close to Stanford in undergrad, atleast in the quality of its students but maybe not overall resources.</p>
<p>Also Hawkette, Harvard does have frats and sororities, my friend is an SAE at Harvard and another a Theta (sorority).</p>
<p>A lot of Stanford students are from in-state, but couldn't that have a lot to do with the fact that CA is the most ginormous state in the union?</p>
<p>I mean it would certainly be a different matter if a school in, like, Rhode Island had 56% in-state (speaking of which...)</p>
<p>So Thought--it's just fine for first-rate students to study under second-rate professors? The entire focus on student body SAT averages puts the cart before the horse.</p>
<p>No, thats not fine.</p>
<p>Luckily, Duke doesn't have second-rate professors, so I'm not sure what school you're talking about?</p>
<p>HYPSM...I'll say Stanford is among the top of the top.</p>
<p>When it comes to atmosphere and similarity of the student bodies, I would think of Rice and Duke as peer institutions.</p>