what are the less difficult musical theater programs to get into

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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Divamamacita…I agree. You can only analyze this just so far and have to let it go and just realize it is out of your control and a competitive chancy process. If you did your research and built an appropriate list relative to the candidate’s qualifications and selection criteria and it is a well balanced list, something should work out in the end. You can only attend one school anyway. If you like all the schools on your list (which you should), then it is a winning situation in the end. Your child will land some place in the fall and all will be well. Those who have been through this already all lived to tell the tale and our kids went somewhere for college.

What is hard, I think, for parents, especially if it is your first child applying to college, that it is often the very first time something of some significance is totally out of your hands and you can’t control the outcome for your child. And that is HARD! We want them to be happy and for things to turn out well for them. But someone else is going to first make some decisions about them and we have no say in that. And frankly, after college admissions is over, it is going to be like this from here on out. As a parent, it is hard at first, but you will get used to it. Later, you can support and advise your young adult (if asked), but their life is in their hands and of course, in terms of jobs and casting, will be decided by others, and the parent has no say in matters any longer. And if your kid pursues a career in theater, it is even tougher odds than getting into college. Just you wait!

So, as anxiety ridden as this process can be, try to ride it out, and even enjoy the journey (the audition trips, etc.) and know that in the end, your child will be happy some place most likely in the fall and this admissions process will be a memory. Then, you can start worrying about the NEXT thing, LOL!

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@MomCares‌ … You have accurately summed up this entire crazy process: the least difficult program to get into is the one that is looking for someone exactly like you. This is a long and challenging road for our kids… But as a survivor, and the mother of a survivor, I assure you that it all works out in the end. Fate has the upper hand; just go with the flow.

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Fair warning- in the “it’s gonna get worse before it gets better” section- after all the auditions are finished (which was Chicago unifieds for D) was when it really got tough- the waiting…

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Noooo!

The waiting, the waiting, the waiting, the waiting, the waaaaaiiiting!

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:))

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I think the hardest thing to wrap your head around as both a parent and performer, is that it’s not about the talent anymore.

True, there are some non-talented kids out there who are just making a go of it and applying. But the vast majority of kids are talented. And have heard all their lives that they are talented. So they start the process assuming they are good and now they are suddenly brought together in a competitive situation, and once again they question their talent.

But the majority of students auditioning do have talent, and so the committee is looking at a range of subjective criteria and factors we know nothing about. They are not just sitting there writing percentages on how talented one performer is vs. the next.

And that’s why looking at percentages and odds of acceptances from schools in previous years by no means give any clue as to how the process will go for any one student.

And as soozievt said, once the kids are out of school and are going on professional auditions it is even worse. You cannot quantify it. Everyone is damn talented, but still only one of them will get the part. And when you do get cast, it can be from factors ranging from knowing the musical director from a show 10 years ago, to having the just perfect shade of red hair or crooked smile or vocal tone that reminds the director of so and so.

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@tramsmom‌, it’s definitely a big difference if the total pool of applicants for each school is equal but it isn’t. The schools that seem to have the super low acceptance rates are the ones with the massive amounts of applicants and often times the schools with the higher acceptance rates have a smaller pool from which to pull, so that 3% and that 9% for two different schools can be the same 10 acceptances. The problem is that danged elusive total applicant number! Durn, the elusive acceptance number to yield a specific class size is also a problem!

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Yeah well I am having fun trying! It gives me something to focus on. Something elusive but concrete. And I have my theories about the “Big Picture”. :wink:

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I think my D said it best “when you audition for a part, you realize that if you don’t get the part, that there is someone else who is a better fit – but, with this, it feels personal – they are rejecting YOU, not you as it relates to their vision of a particular role.” I guess we should reframe it and think of it as though they are all auditioning for the role of CCM student, or NYU student or BW student. The problem is, we don’t have a good picture of what each of these looks like or sounds like.

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I think you are all honing in on exactly the right mindset now. I do think that most schools are attempting to build a class in very much the same way a creative team builds a cast, and the mental tools for coping with redirection are very much the same tools that actors use to handle not getting a role they wanted.

Most schools probably go into the process with an idea of the types of students they want to fill this year’s class with, based on some combination of factors including who is graduating, what casting directors tell them will be needed in the next four years, the types of students they feel their program best serves and the staff’s personal biases about the types of performers they are drawn to. They probably know quickly if you are a strong candidate for a slot or not, much as a casting team usually knows quickly if you are who they have in mind for a certain role or not.

No program can judge your worth as a person or even your future as a performer based on a 5 minute audition, so in that sense it really isn’t personal.

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I hear that, @tramsmom‌. Our big diversion on this forum last year was how to staple the resume and headshot together! LOL!! Whatever helps!!!

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@MomCares, while I agree that no one can “judge your worth as a person” in a five minute audition, I have heard SO MANY casting directors and heads of MT programs say, “I know within the first 15 seconds whether this person is right for me or not.” And, I would hazard a guess that MOST OF THE TIME, they are right. Do schools make mistakes? Yes. Do casting directors make mistakes? Yes. But most of the time, they get it right. They know what they are looking for, and they know talent when they see it, whether it is raw or polished.

As a survivor (love this term for what we went through as parents), I can look back with a more unbiased view, I think. And, at the risk of opening up a whole 'nuther can of worms, I’m going to say this. I know it will draw ire, but…I truly believe this is true. At least, it was true 2 years ago, and last year, and I think it will be true this year. It probably wasn’t true 10 years ago, pre-Glee effect.

Seems to me there are 5 categories of kids: 1) those kids who are incredibly talented and well-coached and get into MOST of the programs they apply to, both top tier schools, and safety schools, b/c they are so good that everyone wants to take a chance on them (b/c schools ARE concerned about their yield) - there really are only a handful of these kids here on CC each year…I’m sure there are more not on CC. You can look at the Acceptances threads and see who these kids are, simply by looking at the schools they got into; 2) those kids who are talented, but not quite ready for Broadway yet, but have those commercial looks (Broadway bodies, tall, good-looking, etc., b/c as much as we hate to say it and see it, YES, it matters) - these kids get into SOME of the top tier programs and do really well, but some of us wonder how they did quite as well as they did; 3) those incredibly talented kids who don’t think they need a coach for whatever reason, and are just as talented (maybe more so) than the kids in category 1, but they are cocky…too full of themselves. These kids get into some good programs who don’t care if they have a class full of divas, and they get rejected from other (a lot of) top tier programs that do care…and people are SHOCKED that these uber-talented kids don’t get into some of the schools they applied to. Luckily, this is a very small group of kids…a tiny category, really; 4) those kids who are talented, but not category 1 or 3 talented, and get into some really great programs, some safety schools, and don’t get into other good programs and safety schools…these are the ones where we scratch our heads and say, “Why on EARTH did they get into school A but rejected from school B?” These are the majority of kids at auditions and here on CC, I think. Good, talented, nice kids who - for reasons that will never be known to us - get into some programs but not others; and 5) those kids who don’t get in anywhere, or maybe only their non-audition safety, or maybe only one or two lower tier audition schools out of the 25 schools they applied to. Why? Maybe they aren’t competitive with the rest of the pool of applicants. Maybe they are incredibly talented but they don’t audition well. Maybe there are too many 5’4" brunette belters this year and everyone has their fill. I don’t know why, but this pool of kids does exist.

There. I said it. Have at me. But that’s what I have observed. Are there kids who don’t fall into one of these 5 categories? Sure. But I think (it’s opinion here, people) that the vast majority of kids fall into one of these categories. If you’re lucky, your kid will be in category 1 or 2. MOST of your kids will be in category 4 (mine was). And that’s a great place to be…no worries there. They will end up some place great for them.

And, after saying all of this…here’s something else that will throw a wrench into all of this. Even kids in category 5 can “make it.” Just like there are kids in category 1 who won’t make it. So the bottom line is, this is just a tiny step in the process. Your kid needs talent, patience, drive, determination, luck, and they need to be a really REALLY nice person (don’t underestimate the importance of this). IF they have all of these things, they stand a much better chance of being successful. Nothing you can do or say or think or worry about is going to change the outcome of where your child ends up at this point. And I guess what I’m trying to do here is quell some of your fears…like I said, the vast majority of your kids are in category 4. It will be okay. Really. Breathe.

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I think you have some really great points in there. I would like to add something. I think the category 3 kids are the ones who are going to struggle the most with college and beyond. There are a lot of little ponds around the country that have grown some big fish. I have seen people let it go to their head, and refuse to follow generally known advise or “rules” because they are that and a bag of chips. Result is that the college process doesn’t end the way they want it to, And I would imagine things are even less likely to end well in the professional world. There is no one above the process of art. This goes back a little to the high school vs outside opportunities thread as well. I don’t think kids should spend the bulk of their time in places they don’t find valuable- but again, a kid saying they are “above” their school program (which I know happened at an audition one year) sends a very clear, and negative message.

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Yes, @toowonderful, I agree. My D got a personal backstage tour from a very talented, sweet young man in a Broadway show after we saw the show (we had a mutual friend). He said, “If you’re a girl, and you’re a diva or full of yourself, you only get one chance. You act up, and you’re out. If you’re a boy and a diva, you get three chances, and then you’re out. You’ll never work again.” And I believe him. To quote one of my favorite shows, “Nice is different than good.” And sometimes just as, if not more, important. :wink:

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@monkey13 – your categories accurately describe the applicant pool, but there is no bright-line test about who fits which category. Mine was a 3, a 4 and yes, a 5. Out of ignorance and lack of funds, we were unprepared for this process compared with most kids. Yet here she is, happily ensconced in the “new” program that everyone’s talking about, getting performance opportunities and making connections that most freshman would drool over. She is proof positive that there’s a great program out there for everyone. Class of 2019 parents: I don’t envy you. This time last year was a horror that I never want to repeat. I could write a book on how NOT to audition! Did it work out in the end? You bet it did. Will it work out for your kids? You bet it will. Hang in there!

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In reality, most of the kids fit nto more than category. Luckily once they are in a college program, these kids will have the opportunity to transform themselves before hitting the road (professionally). They will get 4 years to grow and to learn and, hopefully, to surround themselves with talented professors and directors who wI’ll help mold them into employable artists. I do not put much stock in the ability to project a student’s employability in the professional world from his or he status as a “big fish vs small fish” in high school.

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@artskids- you are correct, in that I have never known a HS “big fish” who was actually as impressive as they thought they were. I don’t mean in terms of talent, but attitude. Those who think of themselves as superstars at 17-18 years old are the ones generally most in need of a real world “education”. And I feel sorry for the ones I have known where college auditions were their 1st wake up call. But my advice to any parents of those fish is help them work to maintain a good attitude towards everyone they work with (at all skill levels) and don’t get sucked into the hype of “oh your kid is so amazing”. (Though those are VERY sweet words to hear, even when you know the person offering them may not be a true judge) Don’t feed the beast of a Diva (or male equivalent) attitude, it doesn’t end well. They either get burned and have to try to climb back (which is hard) or they may be left behind.

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There’s actually a 6th category of MT applicants who are somewhat invisible on cc but almost certainly outnumber categories 1 (which is overwhelmingly male by the way) and 3 combined, and those are kids who are admitted ED to their top choice schools. I know D’s school admits 50% of its class ED, including national Jimmy Award winners, YoungArts winners, National Presidential Scholars of the Arts, NATS winners, kids with Broadway credits, etc. as well as some kids who won’t ever perform professionally, and I know other schools admit kids early as well. These kids voluntarily remove themselves from the later auditions, and I’m guessing they may represent up to 10% of the overall applicant pool.

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In my S’s program, ALL of the kids were “big fish” in HS. So far they have adjusted to the realities of a competitive MT program and are doing just fine (regardless of whether one had obtained so-called “diva status” in HS or otherwise). The best a freshman parent can hope for. @MomCares‌ Interesting point on ED. I hadn’t really considered that before.

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I Think that most Bfa program are full of kids who did well casting wise in high school. There is a difference between that and the big fish diva attitude I was discussing. And as the earlier post suggested, I agree with the idea that there are some schools who don’t mind big fish attitude, but they chose, and are chosen by those kids for a reason