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However, I don't think it is misleading in the least to point out the fact that a good number of law students, particularly the top schools, end up in consulting and banking.
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<p>I guess it depends what you think a "good number" is. Even at top schools, it's probably less than 2% of the student body. The point is just that if you want I-banking or consulting, law school is a bad idea.</p>
<p>From what I've read in the thread it seems that lawyers would be good for managerial positions because so much of the economy involves what you are able to do within the bounds of the law. Usually the most efficient thing to do would result in a prisoner's dillemna, so having a highly trained lawyer in a variety of positions would allow you to legally extract as much profit as possible.</p>
<p>For example, in an I-banking job, I believe that consists of just taking as much information as possible to push small edges of 1 to 2% above what the market is offering in returns. A lawyer would better understand what is within legal limits for getting information, etc. </p>
<p>That or it could just be a smart person can basically be anything they want and it doesn't really matters what your degree is.</p>
<p>Less than 2%? I don't know about that.</p>
<p>"[McKinsey is] the largest recruiter at Harvard Law School..."</p>
<p>And that's just one consulting firm. You add all the consulting firms and all the banks, and I am fairly certain you are going to end up with significantly more than 2% of the class of Harvard Law going to consulting or banking. I have a strong feeling that Yale and Stanford, which are the other top schools I had in mind, have a similar percentage of their students go to banking of consulting, either immediately, or after a few years of practicing law. </p>
<p>I agree that law school is usually not the best way to get into Ibanking or consulting. But, depending on your personal circumstances, it can be the most direct way. For example, if you graduated from a no-name college, even if you did extremely well, you are probably more likely to get into a top-tier law school than into McKinsey or Goldman Sachs. So if McKinsey or Goldman Sachs is what you ultimately want, then what are your choices? You can work in a regular job for a few years and then hope to get into a top-flight business school. But you may or may not get in (elite B-school admissions are notoriously fickle). You can try to get into an elite doctoral program in say, economics or business administration or finance, but again, what if you don't get in? Admission to elite doctoral programs is also rather fickle and dependent on your research ability, which you may not have. Or you might instead try to apply to HLS or YLS or Stanford Law, and maybe you'll get in. So faced with those choices, what else are you going to do. Going to law school may be the best way available to you to get to where you want to be. </p>
<p>Again, I would invoke Robert Rubin. He knew that he didn't really want to be a lawyer. He went to law school anyway, first going to Harvard Law, dropping out, and then a year later went to Yale Law. He reasoned that while he may not want to be a lawyer, he figured that having a law degree was going to be useful in whatever he ended up doing later in his life. After graduation, he worked as a lawyer for Cleary Gottlieb for a couple of years before jumping to Goldman Sachs. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that this is the greatest path, but it is a path you can follow.</p>
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You can work in a regular job for a few years and then hope to get into a top-flight business school. But you may or may not get in (elite B-school admissions are notoriously fickle). You can try to get into an elite doctoral program in say, economics or business administration or finance, but again, what if you don't get in? Admission to elite doctoral programs is also rather fickle and dependent on your research ability, which you may not have. Or you might instead try to apply to HLS or YLS or Stanford Law, and maybe you'll get in. So faced with those choices, what else are you going to do.
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<p>Umm... I'm not sure what the best route is, but that string of statements is complete nonsense. What else am I going to do? Based on your post, I have no idea. Pointing out <em>one</em> example of an indecisive-youth-turn-successful-Ibanker is hardly justification for going to law school. I mean, who do you think you are talking to here? We aren't going to be fascinated by some lonestar figure. He didn't choose not to have an idea of what he was doing with his life. He lacked options and you are using him as a positive example? No doubt he chose law school because it was the most "direct way" to make an enormous amount of money.</p>
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"[McKinsey is] the largest recruiter at Harvard Law School..."
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<p>This is probably a misleading statement. I would not be surprised to find out that they were physically the largest private recruiter there, but that they didn't actually hire more HLS grads than anybody else. Most firms aren't anywhere near the size of McKinsey. How many other consulting firms or banks even recruit at HLS, let alone at other schools? I'd be very, very surprised if more than 2% of the students went into banking or consulting.</p>
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I'd be very, very surprised if more than 2% of the students went into banking or consulting.
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<p>Well, I'll put it to you this way. The HLS class consists of about 700 people. So 2% is only 15 people. I would suspect that out of that 700, at least 15 people in every class probably go to consulting/banking, either right after graduation, or (like Rubin did) a few years later.</p>
<p>Hey Sakky (and whoever else), do you think Columbia Law would be comparable to HLS as far as employment prospects in Consulting and IBank?</p>
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Hey Sakky (and whoever else), do you think Columbia Law would be comparable to HLS as far as employment prospects in Consulting and IBank?
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<p>I don't think any banks even interview at Columbia. Again, if you want banking or consulting, law school is a very bad way to get there.</p>
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I don't think any banks even interview at Columbia. Again, if you want banking or consulting, law school is a very bad way to get there.
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<p>I agree. To make the switch you'd probably have to have some years of work under your belt at a prestigious firm in NY, that way you could have at least made some contacts to make the switch. </p>
<p>Really, I think the only reason they might recruit from Harvard or yale is to say 'oh, so-and-so did law at yale. so-and-so came from Harvard law.' Not to have someone with legal expertise. There is little advantage to hiring lawyers as associates in IB, especially when they're already hit by a flood via 3rd year analysts and the top MBA programs.</p>
<p>i did some research on my own, but ultimately fell short of what i was looking for: i wanted to inquire about the differences between the work/lifestyle at a law firm rather than a banking/consulting firm...i know starting salaries are higher for MBA's over JD's...but in terms of the skills you need, what kind of persons are best for which type of job, and even job prospects; are the two comparable?</p>
<p>Comparable. In both cases, you'll have to put up with your boss' bull*****, stay in the office until 2AM, do meaningless stuff for a couple years, have money thrown at you when you complain and NOT have your complaints listened to, AND do all this with a smile on your face.</p>
<p>"i know starting salaries are higher for MBA's over JD's."</p>
<p>Not true my friend. Depends on the situation and what type of management (for MBA) or field of law (for JD) you get into. I know a person who graduated. with a MBA, and his first job was with a major national retailer that paid around 60k a year. Some law firms pay 135K+ bonuses for first year.. $$$ depends on the place,time,and other factors.</p>
<p>how i came to that conclusion was by comparing starting salaries of JD's and MBA's from the top ranked schools...i found that most JD's (from top schools) produce a starting salary around 125,000 while MBA's (again, top schools) range all the way from 125k-150k</p>
<p>if my methodology was flawed in any way, enlighten me :)</p>
<p>"if my methodology was flawed in any way, enlighten me "</p>
<p>well like I said, attorneys at big law firms gets 145K (they just hiked the pay up) + bonuses in the range of 35-50K, somtimes even 60K.... so total compensation is 180-200K.</p>
<p>I dunno if MBA have the same incentive.</p>
<p>Lets just say you'll owe Uncle SAM quite a lot no matter what you do</p>
<p>i suppose, but b-schools are said to have pretty good payback for their MBA's, or so i hear: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1013/078.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2003/1013/078.html</a> (2003)</p>
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"i know starting salaries are higher for MBA's over JD's."</p>
<p>Not true my friend. Depends on the situation and what type of management (for MBA) or field of law (for JD) you get into. I know a person who graduated. with a MBA, and his first job was with a major national retailer that paid around 60k a year. Some law firms pay 135K+ bonuses for first year.. $$$ depends on the place,time,and other factors.
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<p>If you get that MBA and go into investment banking, your pay will dwarf the pay of a first year legal associate. Look at Underthecounter.net they recently posted about Cravath's upping of bonus pay. Here's the headline: Young Lawyers Get Raise, Still Make Jack ****</p>
<p>That's because if you're hired as an associate at a BB I-Bank you'll be starting with base 120, plus signing bonus, and then an end of year bonus that can go up to 100% of salary. And that's just at an associate level. It keeps going up and up.</p>
<p>The difference is that in Investment Banking you'll probably work more than you're typical top tier firm associate. So you may be working more but you'll be earning more at the same time. Although I hear Wachtell is a sweatshop, I read in Ridegeway's Running of the Bulls that a girl at Lazart (boutique investment bank) worked 140 hours one week.</p>
<p>listen, Like I said I dunno what the truth of the matter is (I dunno if I said that, but if I didn't, now I did). JUst throwing out an instance and associating it with something else I know.</p>
<p>sounds like one of those LSAT fallacy problems</p>