What colleges to add or remove on my COLLEGE LIST for Biology? **Too many reaches?**

College Search & Selection
1

I have a relative who is senior in HS in Brazil and is getting ready to apply to colleges in the USA and Canada. She needs to get good merit aid because she probably won’t get any need-based aid.
Although she is an American citizen she does not have access to any in-state tuition because she lives abroad.
The important parameters for the college choice are:

  • Academic quality for Biology major;
  • Possibility of doing research during college;
  • Location (there is no strong preference, but milder temperatures would be appreciated);
  • Cost (looking for a COA around 50k-60k, and hoping she will be offered a merit scholarship);
  • Campus size (the student has some mobility issues).

I’ll list stats and more information to give you an idea of the student profile so that you can indicate a school in which she has a chance to be accepted (and possibly get a merit scholarship).

Demographics: White female (born and raised in Brazil)
Citizenship: dual (Brazil and U.S.A.)
Major: Biology (not willing to study as a pre-med, but planning to do Masters or PHD in Biology)
Stats: 3.95/4.0 GPA
APs: not offered in Brazil
SAT: 1530
Toefl: signed up for July this year
SAT- Subject Biology: signed up for August this year
SAT- Subject Chemistry: signed up for August this year

ECs:
Student Tutor: 2016-2020
Book and Creative Writing Club: 2018-2019
School in Company Entrepreneurship Challenge: 2019
Social Entrepreneurship Challenge: 2018-2019
“Fridays For Future” climate change discussion with government representative; may/2019
Narrator in a Documentary for her church 60th anniversary: nov/2019
Project for a local daycare organization: 2020

Awards:
Valedictorian: 2018 and 2019, in one of the top schools in São Paulo, Brazil
In 2017 she was ranked 2 in a class of 298; always in the top 1% students
Brazilian Junior Chemistry Olympiad (OBQJunior) – honorable mention
National Science Olympiad (ONC) – honorable mention
Mathématiques Sans Frontières Olympiad – bronze medal
School Math Olympiad – silver medal

Skills:
Fluent Portuguese (native language)
Fluent English
Basic ASL (American Sign Language)/PSE (Pidgin Sign Language) (learnt through online platforms)
Basic Italian (leant at school)

The idea is to apply to 12 or 14 colleges.
The present list has 19 colleges and we would appreciate any input to narrow the list, specially from former students and/or Biology majors.
Because we live in Brazil we don’t have much information about the colleges we are considering, and we won’t be able to visit any of them because of Covid-19.

Reaches:
Johns Hopkins University

Washington University in St Louis
Duke University

Vanderbilt University

Georgia Tech
Matches:
University of Toronto
UCLA
University of NC Chapel Hill
Boston University

UC-San Diego
University of British Columbia (UBC)
University of Washington

University Of Illinois - UC (UIUC)
Ohio State University (OSU)
University of Texas-Austin
University of Florida
Safeties:
University of Wisconsin-Madison
University of Pittsburgh

Univ. of Minnesota-Twin Cities

We are not sure if we should keep the two Canadian universities because I have read that the campus are very big and that U of T is very impersonal. I also read that at UBC undergraduate students do not engage in extensive research as part of their academic studies.
We also have mixed feelings about the California Colleges, because they seem to have huge campuses and also because they are far away from family (we have family in Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania).
We are aware that the most competitive universities in the list can only fit in the budget if she receives a significant merit scholarship.

We need to exclude five or seven universities to narrow down to 14 or 12 applications.

Any insights would be much appreciated.

2

Some of the state schools on this list are very competitive for out of state applicants and should be considered reaches - UT Austin, UNC, UCLA…

I don’t think Pitt, UW, or UMN are anyone’s safeties anymore, especially for a student needing merit money.

In general, these state schools are also not good places to look for merit money.

I’m also not clear on the budget. What does $50-60K + merit mean?

3

There are mobility issues, and then there are mobility issues. Can she handle hills easily? Stairs? How would ice/snow factor in?

Just about any place has decent general biology. And just about any biology department has faculty who can help a star student get into grad school. So that isn’t really a problem.

A true safety is a place where she is guaranteed admission, and that the family can pay for without any aid other than the federal aid she’s entitled to as a citizen. So have her look at the threads about automatic admission and automatic aid. If she doesn’t end up with any truly affordable admission offers, can she live with a family member and commute to a nearby community college for the first two years?

If the family can afford $50k each year, then there would be a number of places that would be affordable without any aid at all. College Navigator finds more than 500 institutions with tuition and fees of $30k or less which would leave $20k for housing, meals, books, travel, etc. Here is the link to the search results today. She can narrow things down further by geography or some of the other factors from the “more search options” tab, or by specialization within biology under “browse for programs”. https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?s=all&p=26.0101&l=93&ct=1+2&ic=1&tx=30000&ts=-2&hs=1

How has the family come up with the current list? Does her school regularly send students to the US/Canada? If not, she might want to have a chat with the counselors at the closest EducationUSA advising center. There are a number in Brazil. https://educationusa.state.gov/find-advising-center?field_region_target_id=&field_country_target_id=275&field_center_level_value=All

4

Would the student consider a liberal arts college?

UCLA is a high reach, especially since she has no APs, and the UC system does look at weighted GPAs, but only considers APs and IB courses for weighting for OOS applicants.

University of NC Chapel Hill - a reach for all OOS students, since acceptance rates for OOS applicants is about 17%

UT Austin - same as UNC, it’s a reach for all OOS applicants

Boston University - a reach

UIUC for LAS and OSU are the same as Wisconsin or UMN, all of which are likely safeties for an applicants with your daughter’s stats.

I would drop UCSD and UIUC, since both tend to be stingy with merit money and are pretty expensive for OOS applicants.

I don’t know how the Canadian universities would weight your grades, since they put emphasis on things like IB or AP.

Possible universities to consider:

Reaches:
Rice University
Northwestern
Cornell
UMichigan (good for students with mobility issues)

Lower reaches/high matches:

Case Western Reserve
Wake Forest
William and Mary (it’s a smaller university, which is great)

Matches:

U Georgia

The safety list is good.

Again, if she is interested in Liberal Arts Colleges, there is an entire separate list of reaches, matches, and safeties.

5

University of Toronto and UBC are pretty much safeties, assuming that her TOEFL score is within range. University of Toronto’s St. George campus and UBC’s Vancouver campus size are much smaller than many of the other colleges on your list. They are no more impersonal than the other options on your list.

6

Momofsenior1, Thank you for your tips.

Just to clarify, the cost of attendance should be up to USD 60.000, and we understand that, for the reach universities, staying in this budget requires that she gets a good merit-based scholarship.

7

happymomof1

Thank you for your comments.
Answering your questions:

Can she handle hills easily? No
Stairs? Not easy for her.
How would ice/snow factor in? I really don’t know.

How has the family come up with the current list?
We have used rankings like USNews and THE, and information from Niche, College Confidential, Collegefactual and Reddit.

8

Is $60K the budget for one year or the entire budget for 4 years? If it’s the yearly budget, there won’t be issues for cost for most of these schools.

If that’s the all in budget for all 4 years and big time merit money is needed, there needs to be a new list.

9

bouders,

Thank you very much for your comments.

10

Reply to Momofsenior1:

Yes, $60K the budget for one year.

11

UCLA is all hills and stairs - up and down - I would think mobility issues would need to be seriously considered. Nevermind that the UC schools have very little to no merit aid for OOS students.

12

Then there will be plenty and plenty of affordable options!

Most of the state Us on the list will all have a COA under well under that w/o merit.

We found with my D that $45K seemed to be the magic number where it was pretty easy to get down to with merit.

Based on some of the reach schools on the list, I would research Case Western Reserve as more of a match but with a super biology department. U of Rochester as well. Both have higher COAs but do have merit awards.

I would keep Pitt on the list too.

RPI might be another school to consider if research is important.

USC (South Carolina) would be another school to consider.

Other reach schools to consider that may be not as reach-y - Emory and Tulane.

What are the main things this student is looking for in a school experience? I’m having a hard time seeing the pattern in the list. There are some big flagships and then smaller research universities, and they are all over the place in terms of geography, school culture, size, etc…

13

@user_495675

These are the schools that I am familiar with for admission and merit. I have visited some but not all of them.

EXTREMELY competitive for admission and merit:

Washington University in St Louis
Duke University
Vanderbilt University (parts of campus are hilly)
University of NC Chapel Hill (low admission rate for out of state applicants)

Moderately competitive

Boston University (moderately competitive for admission, highly competitive for honors/generous full tuition scholarships)

University of Washington (about 10K merit maximum, even without merit, would fit budget)

Ohio State University (OSU) (there is a diversity full tuition scholarship offered here - not sure how white Brazilian would be categorized for eligibility)

University of Florida (Not sure if international students are eligible for Florida’s Benaquisto scholarships. These are tied to National Merit qualification including taking the PSAT in grade 11)

University of Pittsburgh (apply early for best consideration, some parts of the city are hilly, not sure about campus)

Univ. of Minnesota-Twin Cities

If the students is willing to consider colder climates, take a look at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland OH or University of Rochester in Rochester, NY. Both offer merit scholarships; last time I checked top amount at Case Western was 30K+. These would be less of a reach than the top schools. Northeastern in Boston might also be an option for merit.

If the student is willing to go down a notch in prestige, generous merit scholarships are available at southwestern universities like Arizona State University (Barrett Honors College), University of Arizona, and University of New Mexico. Climate will be warmer there.

If she is open to liberal arts colleges - many of which offer fine biology programs and opportunities for undergraduate research, there are many options. These tend to be smaller (less than 2K students) and many, but not all, are located in smaller towns or rural areas.

All of the information above may be completely disrupted due to COVID-related economic instability as well as possible longer term travel restrictions between Brazil and the US. This student seems extremely competitive for admission to the better federal universities in Brazil and I hope that they are included among the school’s she’s considering.

14

Reply to Momofsenior1

What are the main things this student is looking for in a school experience?

She wants to study at the university with the best quality for the Biology major, considering our budget. She also wants to be able to do research during her undergraduate studies.

And, because she is majoring in Biology, she will have to do Masters or PHD.
It is really difficult for someone who lives abroad to choose a college.

I appreciate your comments very much.

15

Reply to Tdoescollege

Thank you for your inputs!

16

So many US schools have strong biology programs that will be in your budget. Undergraduate research is also very common. That’s why I asked about secondary preferences such as location, size, urban vs rural, etc… It can help us help you narrow down the list.

17

You should encourage her to make her own account to ask instead of using you as an intermediary.

18

If it is a reach for admission, it is a very high reach for a large merit scholarship, since the large merit scholarships are offered to those the college expects to have to compete for yield (i.e. those at the top of the admit class whom the college expects to have other equally or more attractive admission offers).

19

ucbalumnus, Would you suggest narrowing down the number of very high-reach universities? If so, which university would you exclude?

20

Momofsenior1
She does not have secondary preferences regarding location. As for size, it should be “bigger than Columbia University” and I think she would prefer an urban or sububan setting rather than a rural one.