<p>OP: Maybe your DS is bored with the HS, change the HS look for a more challenging HS.</p>
<p>College being very different from high school was not obvious to me, despite having three older siblings.I’m not sure why I didn’t get it, but I didn’t get it.</p>
<p>chrismom: oh yea…145 is a high IQ, sheesh most of the high achieving kids are not even near that- they just do exactly what the teachers want- this is what elite higher educators and the employers that hirerer them say: not problem solvers, think work hard means automatic success (no, work smart) and can’t work in teams…</p>
<p>Chrisson is right on track: no need to do busy work or homework, he KNOWS THIS STUFF…nephew same way, was put in elite boarding school in MA, but no, no go, back to public, where he stayed up all night on computers… that was when it was exploding…Parents tried Navy, they were crazy for him based on his scores, but NO he had to graduate HIgh School, so no go ,he would not do it,so no Navy. Not sure if he even got a GED, but Northeastern took him, he worked for great $$$ on computers at a full time job while he went to school and his father agreed to fund his motorcycle racing as long as he was in school…still didn’t need to do his homework in college but they gave him A’s 'cas homework doesn’t count! </p>
<p>Nephew is doing great; and so will your son, but he does not fit into a box and that is fine, it is his strength…Find a College he wants to go too, and find his real interest. Think of it as a “learning Difference” that is really what it is! Peace !</p>
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<p>And you know this fact how, exactly?</p>
<p>Bover: Just typing a one confrontational one liner does not make it not so…do your own research, google and read- it is not hard to find many education experts weigh in on this- And saying a IQ of 145 is not a high score, rather a bit average, is CC at it’s condescending finest!</p>
<p>Just a thought, does your kid exercise? If so, is it vigorous? If not, is there any way you can get him to do something strenuous like long distance running. He’s obviously got brain power, and he takes it for granted. Would a physical challenge stimulate him in ways intellectual challenges cannot.</p>
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<p>As I expected, you have no source. </p>
<p>Not only that, you don’t even understand my comment. I didn’t say 145 wasn’t a high score - I know the scale for the IQ exam (although I do question its validity). I am questioning this statement " most of the high achieving kids are not even near that- they just do exactly what the teachers want- this is what elite higher educators and the employers that hirerer them say: not problem solvers, think work hard means automatic success (no, work smart) and can’t work in teams".</p>
<p>If you can find any educational expert that says that kids with perfect standardized test scores, straight A’s and 5’s in AP exams, awards in AIME, Model UN, and national science competitions are not problems solvers and can’t work in teams I would seriously question that expert’s bonafides.</p>
<p>And by the way, my kid is barely a C+ student. So I’ve got no dog in this fight.</p>
<p>We all know the true geniuses skip class and get expelled. You are the condescending one here - and of course, you never post anything confrontational.</p>
<p>Ok, we don’t know which IQ test was used to measure that 142. The scale isn’t the same on all tests. As I understand it, and I’m not a mathy person, one uses 16 SDs and one uses 15 (standard deviations.) I checked the frequency chart and on one of the tests one out of 192 people has an IQ of 142 or higher. Not common, but not exactly unheard of.</p>
<p>I am the one who first suggested that this IQ isn’t all that.</p>
<p>I meant no disrespect to the OP or her son. My only point was that it’s certainly not unusual enough for any student to think it’s a free pass. </p>
<p>Certainly, it is above average. </p>
<p>I didn’t mean to be condescending. I just meant that I know so many people with IQ’s in this range, that if one of my kids tried to coast on it, I’d remind him/her that half the people they know have an IQ like this.</p>
<p>Both were in G & T programs in school and come from a family of high scorers, so I know this to be the case.</p>
<p>Rather than be condescending, I meant just the opposite.</p>
<p>And many people whose contributions I greatly respect have/had lower IQ’s. It’s just one way to assess intelligence, the kind of intelligence that performs well in standardized tests.</p>
<p>That was all I meant. No disrespect intended.</p>
<p>I’ll second that an IQ exam only test how good you are at taking standardized tests. Both DD and I score above 140 but DW don’t. That doesn’t mean we are more intelligent. It just mean that we are good at taking standardized tests.</p>
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<p>Just so this doesn’t get misconstrued - I don’t question that the OP’s son took an official IQ test and got a high score (142 or 145, I can’t remember).</p>
<p>I question the whole notion of testing for “intelligence” because I believe that to be able to truly test for something you need to be able to clearly define what it is, and I believe there are so many elements to what people call “intelligence” it is impossible to get a true definition. </p>
<p>Is it merely pattern recognition? Verbal, visual, auditory patterns? Is it the ability to learn? Is memory an element of intelligence? Short term, long term or medium term? Is it the ability to analyze a situation and distill critical relationships? Is it the ability to learn and perform calculations, or to locate appropriate information in your memory and use it correctly to solve problems? THere are undoubtedly many other possible definitions.</p>
<p>And even after you arrive at a definition, you have to figure out a way to test for that element, and only that element. One element of intelligence could affect the measurement of another, and things which would not strictly fall under the rubric of “intelligence” can also affect scoring and measurement. That’s why I believe current IQ tests often correctly discard scores that could be artifically low due to perceptual difficulties like dyslexia, or processing difficulties. For that reason I don’t give a lot of credibility to testing for it.</p>
<p>It’s like testing for “beauty” or other intangibles. I know others (particularly psychologists and educators) may disagree, but I just don’t buy it.</p>
<p>I find it so interesting that most of the posts are not about helping the OP, but instead reflect anger, resentment and defensiveness around a teenager claiming to have intelligence. It makes me wonder what it’s all about. I’ve not seen such a defensive debate about SAT for example. </p>
<p>Boverine, the IQ testing to which I’m familiar costs several thousand dollars, and covers 3-4 days of multi-hour testing, with a lot of different tests, very different formats, and many of those with subtests, and the idea being the psychologist can distill and interpret the underlying patterns to which you are referring.</p>
<p>Given its correlation with a lot of real world performance aside from test taking and stability over time, I find it absurd to suggest (note: my defensiveness) that it’s merely the ability to take tests. </p>
<p>We may not like evidence in our world of faux-meritocracy that some people really are more innately cognitively talented on some dimensions than others, it doesn’t mean it’s not a real construct.</p>
<p>Let me say this. I do not hold the opinion that anyone is entitled to a pass in school. IQ, name, money or any other reason does not exempt someone from doing the work. That WAS my point. All I have ever told my son is that I expect him to do his best. Whether his best is an A or a D if he has done his BEST no one (including me) can ask more. He IS intelligent (but not too “smart”) he knows that. It wouldn’t have mattered if he had never taken the IQ test (Stanford-Bennett) to document it. We all know people who think they are smarter than everyone else in the room (and usually aren’t). He can be a sweet loving boy when he wants to be. I just needed some ideas of how I could open his eyes. His arrogance and apathy alienate all around him (teachers and students alike). His tardies and absences are distracting and time consuming. His scuffles (usually pushing matches) are self indulgent. I do believe he will look back in regret at this time. I am looking for that “trigger”. Even when I find something that interests him it is short lived. He did karate but only to purple belt. He thought about starting a math club but that’s as far as it got because he lost inerest. He DOES want to go to college but he thinks he’ll get into MIT or Stanford with a 3.1, lousy attendance, discipline issues, no ecs and no recs. Despite what I (or anyone else says) HE thinks he’ll get a pass because he’s “smart”. I think that’s pretty DUMB.</p>
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<p>First, I have no anger or defensiveness, I’m stating my opinion, which, by the way, is my opinion about all standardized testing including SATs, about which I have written in other posts on this website. And, although I hesitated to mention this, because of an implication in your statement here let me just dispell any notion about the “reason”. I’ve had three IQ exams, starting in elementary school up to just a few years ago as part of a psychological test. My IQ has measured consistently above the level we are talking about, although not always the exact same number. I also score consistently high in other standardized tests. </p>
<p>If I do resent any statement here it is at olympiclady’s implication that high achieving kids are merely dull witted automatons that get by on busy work. I don’t think you can read her post any differently than that.</p>
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I have no idea what the cost or length of a test has to do with its validity or accuracy. As a scientist (well, an engineer with science and engineering degrees) my idea of a test which produces a single metric is something that is completely repeatable and with measuring techniques that have stood the test of time. 1,000 people using a scale calibrated to a standard will all obtain the same length measurement (within an inertial reference frame),and these measurements have not changed over time. Not so with IQ testing, for which there are mulitple testing methods and scales, which are constantly changing over time. The notions about IQ also change over time - the notion of whether it is immutable, whether a child’s IQ is the same as an adults IQ, whether it is “nature or nuture”, what affect physical health has on it. I suspect no standard measurement is subject to so much debate, even within the group which advocates it (namely the psychological profession).</p>
<p>And I do not question the notion that some people are more innately cognitively talented than others, I don’t think I have said anything like that at all. I question that the IQ testing can measure it, which is something quite different. All that said, I understand there is some correlation to actual performance and therefore I do not entirely discount the test. That is the single thing that leads me to believe it has some validity - but I still believe it is a very rough and inaccurate measure.</p>
<p>chrismom -
Sorry if I hijacked your thread here to get on my soapbox. For some reason this is my pet peeve. And no, I didn’t have a psychological evaluation because I was nuts - it was part of a security clearance.</p>
<p>I know this must be incredibly frustrating for you, because you know your son is smart and not working up to his potential, IQ test or no IQ test (I only wish my kid had a 3.1). But I get the sense that you are concerned more about how he comes across as a human being than just his school performance, which shows your wisdom.</p>
<p>I wish I had some advice for you, but I deal with some of the same problems with my average intelligence kid. I’ll just say that although his grades haven’t improved much over time, his demeanor and attitude have improved, so maybe the same will happen for you.</p>
<p>To the OP: I thought I could offer some perspective as a high-school student. I’m the valedictorian of my class, but I’ve always suspected that some of the people around me, some of my friends, are much more intelligent. I’ll study for hours for a test while my friend who’s second in the class won’t study at all, and we’ll get similar grades. Is he smarter than me? Probably. But I have higher grades and higher SAT scores because I work harder. I know I must sound arrogant, but I’m willing to risk that in the hopes that this will be useful to you. I see it every day in school: the people who are the most focused and determined, who care the most, do better than those who are merely bright.</p>
<p>Your son must know this, too; he probably thinks he’s smarter than his teachers and classmates. Which may be true, but I don’t think anyone is really too smart for high school. I agree with those posters who said to try to help him find something he’s really interested in, even non-academic. I think people who are really passionate about something are usually more successful, and definitely more interesting because of it.</p>
<p>Anyways, I started this post because it made me think of an article called The Truth About Grit ([The</a> truth about grit - The Boston Globe](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/08/02/the_truth_about_grit/?page=1]The”>http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/08/02/the_truth_about_grit/?page=1)) I think the study described at the end is especially interesting.</p>
<p>chrismom:</p>
<p>My heart goes out to you. Had one a little like yours myself. He could easily have gone REALLY wrong if he hadn’t gotten a lot better at his sport in high school, I think he’ll be okay, although not what he could have been.</p>
<p>Reluctantly, as hard as it would be I think I’m going to join the crash and burn advice (with the caveat that he needs to be held to the formal requirements of attending school and behaving appropriately). Otherwise, tell him his work, his grades, his life. No guarantees, but he might wake up eventually.</p>
<p>After high school, if money is not an issue, a PG year at a traditional, hard nosed boarding school MIGHT help. But it would be expensive (the cost of an elite private LAC) and, once again, there are no guarantees.</p>
<p>Bottom line: At some point, he has got to understand and decide for himself that the best way to stop being a jerk is to stop being a jerk.</p>
<p>Chrismom</p>
<p>Good luck with trying to find that trigger. The only way he may see the light is when he actually applies to college and gets turned down. My son thought he was a shoe in for the governors school program because he was “smart”. His grades didn’t reflect his smarts. It didn’t matter how much we told him that what he had on paper wasn’t an automatic acceptance.</p>
<p>So he applied, was rejected and then depressed for 2 weeks. We used that time to talk about how there are other people just as smart (if not smarter) who do the work and have better grades. The following year he applied again and this time was waitlisted… finally getting accepted about one month before school started. </p>
<p>Hopefully you won’t have to wait that long for him to wake up and smell the coffee. If it does take that long, the only thing I can recommend is to have a backup plan in place. Sometimes that only way to move ahead is to fail.</p>
<p>good luck.</p>
<p>chrismom, I sent you a PM.</p>
<p>Whale (#76):
let me give you a resounding thumbs up for your observation. I have had employees who were very sharp but wouldn’t work, while there were others who had mediocre aptitude, but had a great work ethic. After six months most of our customers preferred dealing with the latter crowd because they got their work done because most jobs in the world don’t involve the things IQ tests measure.</p>