Parents: I seek advice from people who have been there and done that

Parents Forum
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<p>First of all, I am a Junior around 50% ranking in my class just solely based on GPA. And apparently 98% of the human population as intelligence goes. I know IQ is debatable, but my IQ is 130. I seek advice from older adults who have had their kids go through the whole college process. </p>

<p>Just a background: my parents have never been so forceful or pressured me that much. They were very nonchalant with me; however, that does not mean they did not care. They never pressured me to pursue any occupation or get straight A's. They would often show their disappointment regarding my grades, but just encouraged me to do better. Now, they are just like: go apply to any school you want, don't worry about the money or anything, just get in and we will provide. That is easier said than done, the family income is around $40k. Hopefully, I will get a great financial aid package; even then, I will probably have to work during college.
I would often reject my parents' suggestion of getting a tutor or going to after schools because I did not want them to waste money. Plus, I never needed any tutors, just a small push to do better. What disappoints them is that I am intelligent and getting the grades I am getting. Had I have been not so smart and getting my grades; they would not be disappointed. I mean we immigrated from Korea for me to get a better education; they had to leave everything behind for me. I am truly thankful for that.</p>

<p>Well, I had always have been interested in science ever since I can remember. I remember I would always read books way above my level, but not "classical" books, just nonfiction books. I would always read encyclopedias, technical books, any nonfiction books on almost anything. I taught myself C++ when I was 11 and have been programming ever since. Keep in mind, my parents barely know I even program, I keep that to myself. I would often get caught reading the quantum physics and nuclear physics sections of my textbook while I was supposed to be working on something else. It just fascinates me. I mean does it not fascinate you when you actually think about the universe? I mean even water fascinates me; the simple substance that you take advantage of everyday without even thinking about it. The bottom line here is that I just love learning about the world; my life long ambition is to understand and speak the language of God. </p>

<p>My career goal is to be a research scientist and be a professor. Why do I want to do that? Because that allows me to explore the universe and pursue my ambition of understanding God. Sure I know I will never reach that goal, but my definition of success differs from others. Success is not a destination, but a journey. It is that process of trying to figure it out that attracts me. I want to double major in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering then get doctorates in those fields. Why doctorates? Because to be a professor, you need doctorates I assume. I want to learn as much there is to learn. I am just a knowledge junkie. Now, that surprises you that I am getting terrible grades? Had I had more respect for teachers, I probably will be a straight A student, no question. </p>

<p>Why I have no respect for teachers goes a long way. It was partially because when I would ask questions, teachers would often not know the answer, that led to me trying to figure stuff out for myself. I have seen teachers as incompetent and annoying at times; they were cogs in the system. I hated the system. The system says that to be successful, you need good grades; to get good grades, you need to get good scores on tests. So teachers emphasized getting good scores on tests, but not actually learning the subject. That leads into middle school. Teachers were kind of better, since they would specialize in subjects, but they still did not come up to the standards I had for them. I would have terrible teachers by any standards then I would be a rebel and not do anything in that class. Then they took me out of the Gifted and Talented program because of that. Then comes highschool, the rebellious attitude stayed. Then of course again, I get put into useless classes that were run by incompetent teachers. We would literally do nothing in the class for days then do small thing a couple days a week. Of course, why would I try in a class like that? As I get into my Sophomore year, I started seeing a bigger picture, but my habits had stuck. Years of laziness lingered over me. I mean at times, I would totally ace the test but fail to complete tasks. Then Junior year came and here I am. I am looking for colleges to apply to, I have a pretty good list of schools I will apply to. Here is a problem: my grades are dirt. </p>

<p>I lacked the maturity to play the system and not be the nonconformist rebel who knew too much. It is true: ignorance is bliss. I just was disgusted by the system and the type of people it was producing. I still disrespect some teachers, but I have had some absolutely fantastic teachers that I adore. I mean come on, I know more calculus than my pre calculus teacher does. How pathetic is that? </p>

<p>It is way too late to get my grades up. My only real chance at getting into some of the colleges I am applying to is my essay and possibly test scores. I know for sure that I can get straight As and I am going to get straight As next year as a senior. But that can't save me; the semester is over around when the application are due. I don't want to lag the process. The kinds of schools I am applying to are the polytechnics and institute of technologies. Most of them are small private schools. I want the schools that I can "nerd out" to the max. </p>

<p>I have definite passion for science, technology, engineering and mathematics. My grades just don't show my intelligence or fervor I have. It does show my effort and the mentality I had for school. How would I show that to colleges? Any life long advice for me? I want to be a professor partially because I do not want to be the kind of instructor that some of my teachers were. </p>

<p>Woah, that was really long. But thanks for reading it.</p>

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<p>First reaction from a quick skim: If you have no respect for teachers, you have no hope of convincing any professor to take you on as a graduate student, which is a prerequisite to becoming a professor yourself.</p>

<p>You also do not want doctorates in computer science and electrical engineering. Do you have any idea how long it takes to earn a doctorate? Simply finishing one is usually a five-year endeavor, at the least. Nor do you need two doctorates to be a professor. One suffices to establish your credentials as a practitioner of academic research.</p>

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<p>Well, I will stay in academia for life essentially, I got all the time I have. Also, I have no respect for incompetent teachers. Professors are fantastic. I learned more in a 1 hour lecture by a professor than I learned in a month in my teacher’s class…</p>

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<p>High school can be frustrating, but I think you will be all right. As you surmise it generally gets better in college though even there you may have to jump through hoops that you think are stupid. You have the right idea. Get the best grades you can first term senior year. Write an essay about what you’ve taught yourself. Do you have any work or other experience with computers? My son was able to do some unpaid programming for scientist who needed some modelling done, and he then ended up working for pay for another connection. If you can make this summer productive that would be a big help. There are tech schools that will take you - if they aren’t geeky and high powered enough do well and transfer. Ace the SATs (or ACT). You’ll look like a smart slacker, but that’s better than a dumb slacker.</p>

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<p>Intelligence, as measured by IQ testing, does not predict or correlate to success in life. Read the anecdotal discussion of IQ and social skills in [Outliers:</a> The Story of Success (9780316017923): Malcolm Gladwell: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017922]Outliers:”>http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017922).</p>

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<p>I do not have any “formal” experience in the workforce. However, I am the lead programmer on our robotics team. Most of the programming I do is in my free time or for the team. Yes, it seems like I am a slacker. I show symptoms of ADD, but I push that to the side. I do not want to turn to drugs or some doctor telling me the obvious. </p>

<p>Also, Mr Gladwell in the video talks about Asians having a certain mentality. Well, I am Korean. The recent SAT score will come in two days, but I predict a 730 on my math section because I got like 4 wrong… I really do hate these tests.</p>

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<p>

‘These tests’ are what will get you into college. You’ve backed yourself into a corner where you have to rely on them. Your grades in hs certainly aren’t going to do the job. Loose the attitude. It is really off-putting to adults. If it comes through in your applications you are toast. </p>

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If you are active in FIRST look on their website to see which universities offer scholarships. The universities that they work with may be more willing than others to cut you some slack on your GPA if the rest of your application is in order. They look out for students who have participated in FRC & FTC.</p>

<p>The biggest favor you can do yourself is to adjust your attitude. As you can see, the one it has hurt is you. You will have to deal with others that have different gifts than you all your life. With an instructor you must quickly assess what you can get from them to be successful and then determine where you will get any other needed information. That can be from tutors, study groups, online resources, etc. The sooner you come to peace with this the better.</p>

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<p>No, you don’t.</p>

<p>Four years of college takes you to 22. Five to seven years after that for your first Ph.D takes you to 27 or 29. Do ANOTHER Ph.D (assuming you can convince any program that you need two Ph.Ds back-to-back) and you’re looking at being in your mid-thirties before you’re even close to earning a decent living and saving for retirement.</p>

<p>Then you have to do post-docs, VAPs, etc. so you can compete for a tenure-track position… if you can’t find one, then your Plan B becomes a mid-life crisis.</p>

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<p>Yes, it is my attitude. That needs some fixing. I have seen a lot of the schools I am applying to on the scholarship list. My coach once told me: the difference between A+ and F is the “titude” after the letters.</p>

<p>I understand that takes a long time, but my field is very inter disciplinary.</p>

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<p>That I think is a real sticking point here. Why would a PhD program give one of its precious, sought-after slots to someone who already had a PhD? That would be like a medical school admitting an MD to its freshman class.</p>

<p>The only place I could see that happening MIGHT be some PhD program that for some reason was unpopular and desperate for students (if there is such a place). But why would you want to enroll in a program like that?</p>

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<p>

Sounds like a wise person. :wink: FIRST has a way of attracting some pretty awesome mentors, but then I’m biased (cough, cough). Really though, it’s great that you are seeing schools that you are interested in that participate with the program. They already know the brand. That will help.</p>

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<p>You can be interdisciplinary without getting two Ph.Ds. Once you have one, that’s all you need. You have the credential that says you are capable of conducting independent academic research. You don’t need to go back to school to show that you can do it again somewhere else.</p>

<p>That’s why it’s a Doctor of Philosophy degree - you’re showing mastery not of an individual field, but of the craft of academic research.</p>

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<p>What are grades anyways? Only the way one’s ability to learn is measured. So, as far as the colleges can see, your ability to learn is “dirt” as you put it. You are going to have a real tough time getting into any decent college. </p>

<p>And, as you state, your parents “immigrated from Korea for me to get a better education; they had to leave everything behind for me. I am truly thankful for that.” Great way to show how “thankful” you are. I SURE HOPE YOU CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE.</p>

<p>IQ tests show how good your reasoning ability is and not how well you learn and perform. Great you did well on it, but it won’t mean a thing as far as college admissions go. </p>

<p>SAT tests in math aren’t at a real high level. Doing well on them is necessary to get into a good math, science or engineering program but you won’t get there on test scores only. </p>

<p>Guess it all leads back to those grades for college admissions.</p>

<p>I find it kind of funny that, because you thought you were better than your teachers, you decided to blow off your school work. GUESS YOU REALLY SHOWED THEM.</p>

<p>You’ve dug yourself quite a hole from what you described. I do hope you can dig your way out. It will be a lot of work. And the ironic part is that you’ll probably start off at some lower level school with a lot of kids that you will think (and probably are) not quite as smart as you. Then, you’ll have to suffer thru classes taught at their level and perform very well at that level to get a chance to improve your lot.</p>

<p>Good luck. Hope you make it.</p>

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<p>Dual-enroll or take Summer classes at a local Community College. This not only gives you access to professors, whom you love so much and might actually try learning from, but it also proves you’re capable of succeeding in the college environment.</p>

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<p>I think your parents tell you to apply to any school and they will make it happen because they don’t know better. College is not affordable to most people. Most need based schools are top tier schools. To get merit scholarship at lower tier schools you would need good GPA and test scores. Cost of college education is around $50K/year without FA. Your best bet would be your in state colleges. If that’s too expensive, another alternative is to go to community college for the first 2 years, get really good grades, then transfer to a good college, hopefully with FA.</p>

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<p>You need to work on your arrogance; it’s gotten you into really tough situation. You are self-aware and seem to have known along that you were digging yourself into a hole, yet you refused to put down the shovel! Rebelling against teachers because you thought they were idiots only hurt yourself, and you know that, but have persisted in doing this. Your parents gave up everything for you, and you could not bring yourself to get the grades that you need to see their sacrifices pay. God isn’t just intellect - God is also love and commitment. Maybe your journey needs to God includes emotional growth. </p>

<p>I have a daughter who’s IQ is in the upper 140’s. At two she was telling off adults at the zoo (“a gorilla is NOT a monkey - any idiot should know that if it doesn’t have a tail, a primate is an ape”). She’d come home from Kindergarten on and tell us the incorrect things that her teachers had “taught”. Got sent to the prinicipal’s office in first grade after telling the teacher he was dumb for telling the class that bears hibernate (since they emerge on warm days, it’s not a true hibernation). Was all excited but also sarcastic that year, when she came home and said she’d finally learned something at school that she hadn’t known before - first aid! She quickly learned, however, that you did what you had to do at school, and followed the rules and expectations, because you need the grades! She educated herself outside of classes to satisfy her desire to learn things in depth - still does that now that she’s in a graduate program.</p>

<p>Your best option right now may be to take community college classes this summer to show that you are capable of getting decent grades, and couple that with your high SAT scores. You may well be frustrated in cc classes if you feel that they are below you, and the academic content may well be. But suck it up, get the grades and act like a man. And then work hard at getting good references from teachers… it’s likely that the academic advisor for your robotics club can testify that you have abilities and intelligence not evidenced by your grades.</p>

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<p>Why are some of you so hostile to this kid? He’s admitted he’s made some immature mistakes and has had little to no guidance and he’s asking for help, who cares that he thinks he needs two PhDs - he’s 17 years old!!! </p>

<p>Mathmom and EliKresses have good advice. Bring your grades and test scores to near perfect and write amazing, true, heartfelt essays and you will improve your chances tremendously. Speak to your guidance counselor so that she knows your situation for her letter to the colleges but tone down the “I’m smarter than everyone else” viewpoint. Perhaps explain that you have taught yourself advanced math and programming skills and found the high school classes a little less than challenging and didn’t apply yourself but you see now why that was a mistake. Same advice when asking teachers for your letters of recommendation.</p>

<p>I don’t know if you need to work during the summers but you should look at volunteering at research centers be they at universities or private labs, etc. You need to show something to colleges, other than your robotics club, that validates your claims of superiority. Taking community college classes as EliKresses suggested is also important.</p>

<p>It’s not too late and if you have the ability you claim you are not too different from many incredibly intelligent people, you just need to learn to quiet your attitude down quite a bit. It is the rare individual who is SO valuable that people are will to overlook large personality flaws, they do exist, but it’s very rare.</p>

<p>Cross-posted with KKmama, listen to her advice, she’s a smart woman!</p>

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<p>…“go apply to any school you want, don’t worry about the money or anything, just get in and we will provide. That is easier said than done, the family income is around $40k.”</p>

<p>Now, David, you have already stated on another thread that your EFC is zero.
That demonstrates to me that the COA is going to be very difficult for them, even with that offshore account of $10,000 tucked away. Many schools do not meet 100% of need, and the ones that do are highly selective. </p>

<p>Maybe you could look at a smaller private school that would view being a Korean male as a hook, possibly in the Midwest. Look for schools with a very small percentage of Asian students, all schools want diversity! Best of luck to you in your college search.</p>

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<p>Like it or not, your GPA is THE most important factor in your college application and your teachers hold the keys to the kingdom. A bad attitude will most assuredly stand in the way of getting the grades that your think that you deserve…this will be true all the way through graduate school. Get into the best possible school that you can with what you have got, work really hard and eat some serious humble pie for your grades. If you succeed, you will be able to transfer to a better school. </p>

<p>Be very careful that your college essays do not telegraph your bad attitude. Your app is weakened by your grades; you cannot risk offending an adcom reader.</p>

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<p>I don´t think anyone is being hostile to this kid. It is a shame his parents didn´t say anything to him, or he wouldn´t be in this position. What people are saying here is a lot kinder than what the reality is going to be like in the real world.</p>

<p>It wouldn´t hurt for him to get a job, considering his parents are making 40K a year, he doesn´t have the luxury of doing a non-paying research job in the summer. My kid would be flipping burgers.</p>