What do you pay for?

<p>I usually just go with, “would I like to have a meal/drink with this person?” Recently I did a very bad hire, but I hired her based on a VC.</p>

<p>This is an interesting thread for me.</p>

<p>I have a 15 yr old rising HS junior. His paid work experience consists solely of being the back up dishwasher for a family friend’s catering business. Needless to say, he works once and then not again for months. </p>

<p>I started working at 13 (somehow got around working papers). When son thought about looking for a summer job this year, I told him forget it. No one in walking distance is hiring under 18 and to try and schedule around when I could provide rides limited job opportunities. </p>

<p>In my town, the Mom & Pop businesses are gone. The carpenters, painters, etc. can’t hire his age due to machine tools/his age. Two of our community pools have closed. Just so many factors limited the opportunities I had as a teen. Hope down the rode hiring managers realize teens working just is not that easy for this group.</p>

<p>Kids pay: $1000 per semester for college, their own spending money, fraternity dues.</p>

<p>We pay: food, clothing, shelter, auto & health insurance, all college expensives after merit and Staffords, cell phone, gas for the car. Occassionally we’ll toss a $5 or $10 their way for exceptional help around the house. </p>

<p>Son was in HS during the worst of the recession, and until now, D was too young to work. So neither kid has ever held a paying job. Although, Son’s freshman scholarship came with a monthly stipend. This summer, both are doing unpaid internships. So, again, no money. Unless he gets a job on campus, Son will have to make his (August) birthday last until Christmas.</p>

<p>We are paying for tuition, which is reduced due to partial scholarship, housing, and any medical expenses & things like that (glasses, dental etc). We are also paying for health insurance because it is through employer’s plan but we pay part of it.</p>

<p>Dau will be paying to feed herself – this campus has a mall food court setup as their idea of a meal plan and we are not paying for unlimited pizzas & smoothies — and most of her book costs—we will cover some of that depending on if we can get bargains faster by jumping on them from home. Cars aren’t allowed for frosh so that is not an issue.</p>

<p>D earned a full tuition Merit scholarship for undergraduate school, so she paid her tuition and we paid everything else in UG. We are planning to pay for her Med. School and everything else, while praying that this plan will work (if we hold to our jobs). We do not like loans. We do not have any (no mortgage) and no other dependents.</p>

<p>"many parents seem OK with their kids not working and focusing on EC’s and test prep. "</p>

<p>-This has worked for us, very good plan. Kids working jobs is normally = pennies. Kids working hard on academics = hundreds of thousands in Meri awards and being successful at getting to the next step, like jobs, Grad. Schools, Med. Schools, Law schools, whatever.</p>

<p>We pay tuition, room and board. We pay his car payment during the school year, he pays it in the summer. We pay car, health, dental insurance. We pay for summer gym membership and clothing and shoe expenses related to working out. I give him a clothing allowance (small), and occasionally buy him extras if I see something I know he’ll like. We pay for family vacations, dinners out, H will pay for his golf if they play together. When he plays with his friends S pays. </p>

<p>S has had a summer job since he was 16. He also saved birthday money since he was little, he put the down payment on his car, he was at boarding school so couldn’t work even if he wanted to during the school year, but has worked consistently every summer. We gave him 4 years of book and spending money at the start of freshman year and told him to manage it. After one year of college he hasn’t touched any of it, he actually added to his nest egg from last summer’s job and has a few thousand more in his accounts then he started with. He is very frugal with his own money!</p>

<p>Most employers are very selfish in terms of hiring. They often want an employee that can hit the ground running, and look for that in hiring. I am well versed in what several major companies here want in an employee and how personnel will “cut” resumes, and it isn’t for lack of high school or college job experience in typical jobs kids get during those years. They could not care less. Not one bit. They are looking for key words that show that the applicants have a good working knowledge of certain things and that is all they want.</p>

<p>^Some major companies very well represented on international market do ask about GPA even when you have some 30 years of experience (like me). The ones without experience definitely better have some reasonable GPA, what else they got to show? Now, try to get into Grad. School, Law School or Med. School without sufficient stats. No way!! Then what you are going to do with this Bio degree? I know living with parents is an awesome opportunity for college grad, that is what they were sweating for for 4 years. I know that to graduate with BS in Bio even having low GPA is still ton of sweat, plus tons to EC’s for Med. School application not mentionning about few hours/day for several months in addition to your regualr academics of MCAT preparation will make one feel very good to reside with parents doing nothing, There are no jobs in many areas of the country, period, and it is getting worse not better despite of all the talks on TV. Too many people to choose from. </p>

<p>So, the least college kids can do to insure success after graduation is to get college GPA very high, high standardized tests in case of post grad. studies, EC’s if reguired and whatever else in addition to enjoying their college experience. Job is good if one can get it. My D. was lucky to have it at college, very great experience, sharpened many of her skills, helped very many kids at college, got recongnized for it…but very little “pocket” money, not even worth mentionning.</p>

<p>This is a good dialog and to be clear I mean no disparagement whatsoever in my talking about working vs. EC’s and test prep. In fact, some great points have been raised that not all EC’s are created equally. High end hiring managers I know look very highly at business type majors who have been committed to drama and dance, because they have been in extremely competitive situations and have usually dealt with a lot of politics, inequity and unfairness which is common in the real working world. Have very mixed thoughts on the star high school athlete vs. menial work experience, as many of those athletes have great drive, but are used to having things go their way. Committed role playing high school athletes are usually great, but they can try to fit in some work in even if it is just tutoring. </p>

<p>Having been lurking on these boards for quite a few months, my general observation on the College Confidential parent community is that there is a bias towards success being defined as acceptance and graduation for the “school of their dreams”. This is not bad at all, but parents should not discount the notion that success may better be defined in developing strong, well rounded individuals who are ready to integrate into society and are ready to stand on their own. This involves having lots of life experiences outside of academics and kids academic peer group. </p>

<p>Back to what you would pay, I would far rather my kids have a reasonable amount of student loan debt than having everything covered by the parent. Among other things, it gives them a commonality with their new working world peers and empathy for their future subordinates who almost all of which have some student loan burden. I would rather step in later if there were having trouble with the debt, or wanted to go off on some noble venture.</p>

<p>hbsurfer,
As parent of D. going to Med. School, I can assure you that ALL Med. Schools are looking for “…strong, well rounded individuals who are ready to integrate into society and are ready to stand on their own. This involves having lots of life experiences outside of academics and kids academic peer group.” Every single Med. school have thousands of applicants for about 170 spots in average. If you do not have stats, you fall out riight away. If you have nothing else to show, you fall out in a second round. This includes experience completely unrelated to medicine, like Music, Art, sport, everything that shows pursuing personal passions, time management skills and ability to relate to vearious types of people. So, acceptance to any Grad. School is a success by itself that indicates “strong, well rounded individuals who are ready to integrate into society and are ready to stand on their own.” I have no doubt that the same is true for hiring.</p>

<p>@hbsurfer</p>

<p>That is the most bizarre rationalization that I have ever heard regarding student debt.<br>
If anything, the reverse happens. Due to student debt graduates are pressured to seek any job to pay back their loans. When this happens, they will take jobs they are drastically over-qualified for just because they need money to pay back their loans. Having debt also puts a lot of stress on college graduates. If parents can help their children graduate debt free, they should really pursue that avenue.</p>

<p>Interesting topic. Fortunately our son has a nice scholarship. We pay for the remainder of his tuition, room and board, books, cell phone (which is only $10/month), and $30/week for laundry, groceries, or anything else. He has his driver’s license but isn’t allowed to drive unless he pays for the higher cost of insurance, which so far he has declined to do. (He lives on-campus, so he doesn’t need a car.)</p>

<p>Other people in our family have said that we pay for too much. I think they may be right. Our son is a good kid, but he does seem a bit clueless about financial realities, and I don’t suppose we’re helping by not requiring him to work at least part-time.</p>

<p>@mantori.suzuki</p>

<p>Your S can’t just magically get a job. It is very difficult for students these day regarding jobs. Specially when you are still at school. Also, even if you do get an job, the pay is peanuts. Usually $6-8/hr and limited hours. They will not be able to contribute anything meaningful towards their finances.</p>

<p>Both D1 and S2 got a couple of scholarships/financial aid that pretty much covers tuition and we pay for housing and books. We also pay for their cellphones etc… We have a car at home for them to drive, but they don’t have cars at school. D1 says she is the ONLY one of her friends that doesn’t have a car and that most of her friends got cars for their 16th birthdays.</p>

<p>hbsurfer, I agree that success is not defined by acceptance into school of dreams. In other threads, you’ll see a subset of CC parents define success as income in the ultimate career. I’m not there either. </p>

<p>My objective is to help my kids to build the capabilities, skills, experiences and resume that enable them to lead gratifying, productive adult lives in which they get up in the morning wanting to do what they are going to do that day and in which the world treats them well for doing it. These criteria are obviously subjective: only they can decide what makes them happy to get up each day to do and what they need from the world to feel treated well (money is a part of the latter, but only a part). So, to a large extent, I think your definition of success is part of and consistent with my broader definition. </p>

<p>Getting into and getting great grades at tippy-top schools is one route to getting there, but it is only one. </p>

<p>As a matter of personal preference, I personally would rather not leave kids who are motivated and not entitled with debt, although a modest debt would not be terrible. I might feel differently about kids who have a feeling of entitlement or are not motivated.</p>

<p>I think if you ran a comparison of people with successful careers at 25 who were given a car when they were 16 you would see a amazingly low number.</p>

<p>hbsurfer, what do you base your statistics on? My H was given a car at 17 and is pretty successful, loves his career and is well compensated.</p>

<p>I think he/she is one of those people that thinks having a car at 16 is an “entitlement”.</p>

<p>CPT- how is this selfish?</p>

<p>My company isn’t in the business of helping 22 year olds “self actualize”. We’re in the business of keeping our stakeholders happy (customers, shareholders, employees, retirees, the governments and regulatory bodies of the 90+ operations we have around the world.) We spend millions of dollars a year on training and retention; millions on recruitment; a couple of million on internal communications (but not as much as we do on external communications.)</p>

<p>So we take plenty of people with raw potential and spend tons getting them trained and learning and growing.</p>

<p>But I think your assertion is false. We don’t hire via keywords (although I’m sure every candidate who gets rejected thinks we do.) It is astonishing to me how little many candidates know about the organizations they apply to- and then they complain how selfish companies are in the way they hire.</p>

<p>New grads need to demonstrate (first on paper, and then in an interview if they get one) that indeed they have the potential to grow into a productive employee. No keywords required. But indeed there are many things on a resume or a cover letter which are a quick kiss of death!!! And yes, I use those “keywords” to cull resumes pretty efficiently.</p>

<p>I would not hire someone who could not demonstrate their ability to get up every day and show up. I would not hire someone who could not point to examples in their past where they had to get something done with limited resources or not enough time or not enough information. I would not hire someone who had a track record of bailing every time things got hard. (and yes, I actually have candidates who pretty much brag that they switched majors three times because the first two majors were “too hard” and they needed to “protect” their GPA. oy vey.)</p>

<p>But to Miami’s point- I proceed very cautiously if I sense the attitude that “working equals pennies” and that someone thinks their time is too valuable to hold down a minimum wage job. I take exception to that comment. My own kids worked boring and smelly and low paid jobs-- I worked boring and smelly and low paid jobs. I think it is a mistake to look at the paycheck and draw conclusions about the “value” of working those jobs. And my radar would go off if I were interviewing a 25 year old who had never held a paying job. To go from HS to college to grad school without ever having paid employment suggests a real ivory tower life story- whether affluent or not.</p>

<p>Yes, as Shawbridge noted, we all have our biases.</p>